Independant Opinion F16/60 versis SU30MKI

[Storm Force]

Whislt theres been a lot Indo pak threads on this subject i have tried to get a unbiased idea about these 2 top south asian fighters

heres the link

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-9734.html

 

[Storm Force]

For me sme major points.

The poster clearly feels 2 pilots is better than one

That the flanker AOA is greater and has room for improvements in obtaining bigger engines and an AESA radar.

F16 may have peaked now hence JSF being inducted in many air forces next decade.

 

[araz]

The american mindset has moved on from highly maneouvearable planes to better avionics and high off bore sightedWVR missiles. As their faith in their missiles has increased the maneouverability of their planes has gone down to some extent. Case in point F16 Bl15s V/S Bl 52s-60s. So essentially it is a case of what means you have developed the most and then playing to your strenghts. Modern Air warfare is now going to be mostly at BVR ranges but once that is passed rather than engage in dogfights, the reliance may change to high off bore sighted WVR missiles and then scarpering. That does not mean that dog fights will not happen but they will happen less and less often.
My 2 Paisas worth.
Araz

 

[PAFAce]

Thank you, Storm Force.

The poster clearly feels 2 pilots is better than one

It's not just this poster. Many specialists agree that A2G capability is maximized by having a pilot and a rear-seat Navigator pairing. However, twin-seats are inherently conflicting with the idea of "Lightweight Fighter Aircraft", which is what an F-16 is. I think he may have missed this point.

That the flanker AOA is greater and has room for improvements in obtaining bigger engines and an AESA radar.

F-16 has the basic Flanker beat in almost all other aspects of air-combat maneuverability, including roll-rate (arguably the most important feature in a dogfight), sustained turn rate etc. Also, again, a more powerful but heavier engine defeats the purpose of a LWF aircraft. Scalable Agile Beam Radar (SABR) is a package of AESA that can be installed on F-16s.

F16 may have peaked now hence JSF being inducted in many air forces next decade.

The Flanker frame design is almost as old as the F-16, and is more likely to have peaked already due to extensive development. You can always add to an aircraft, but then it no longer remains what it used to be. F-16 block 52s are heavier than Block 15s, they need more powerful engines. Despite this, Block 15s will outperform Block52s in pure ACM.

 

[lockh33d]

F-16 has better avionics and electrics in addition to being more maneuverable than the MKI. However, the MKI dominates in a dogfight since it was made for that one particular role, while the F-16 is very much like the J-10, a multi-purpose jet fighter. All in all, I prefer the "Made in the USA" tag. God bless General Dynamics.

 

[emotionless_teenage]

The Flanker frame design is almost as old as the F-16, and is more likely to have peaked already due to extensive development. You can always add to an aircraft, but then it no longer remains what it used to be. F-16 block 52s are heavier than Block 15s, they need more powerful engines. Despite this, Block 15s will outperform Block52s in pure ACM.

F-16 is a fighter jet that is developed in the sixties and being inducted to service in 1970s

flanker is about a decade younger than that,while F-16 have already reached it's peak(in form of block 60),flanker still has some room for further development,due to it's size and russian policy that permits avionics system of other country to be implemented to flanker.even now russia still develop a new generation of flanker variant(Su-35 and Su-34 fullback,which is based on Flanker airframe)

 

[Storm Force]

I think the American did mention the Flanker is newer/younger by one decade.

 

[Super Falcon]

hahahaha no matter what F 16 vs SU 30 one on one i think it is pilots who counted on those types of dog fights becoz both are similar type if F 16 dont have aesa than Su 30 dont have manuveribilty. so it is even steven

 

[FireFighter]

hahahaha no matter what F 16 vs SU 30 one on one i think it is pilots who counted on those types of dog fights becoz both are similar type if F 16 dont have aesa than Su 30 dont have manuveribilty. so it is even steven

For Pakistan F16 is ideal and for India it would be Su 30. This is due to the sheer geography of both countries, Pak having lesser air space and land mass requires more agile maneuverable and preferably lighter fighter aircraft whereas India due to its sheer large geography long-range twin engine aircraft would be more suitable.


One thing is certain though, once we induct a few dozen F16-BL52's and BL60s (if we get 'em) and upgrade a 100 JF-17s with better engine+avionics, no Indian Su30 would dare enter Pak airspace. Even if it "mistakenly" does as they say, then for our more agile and maneuverable birds it would be a party in the air
and the IAF pretty well knows this too that our pilots are far more expert n experienced with our birds than the IAF is with the SuSus...

 

[Storm Force]

Super falcon.

Flankers are famed for their agility.

Wat makes the MKI the best flanker it improves this agilty byadding TVC engines.

The radar is vital and here the PESA BARS radar whislt inferoir to AESA radars is stil superior to MSA radars like PAFs F16/52s APG68/63..

 

[sancho]

Super falcon.

Flankers are famed for their agility.

Wat makes the MKI the best flanker it improves this agilty byadding TVC engines.

The radar is vital and here the PESA BARS radar whislt inferoir to AESA radars is stil superior to MSA radars like PAFs F16/52s APG68/63..

Don't forget the avionic differents! The French/Israeli avionic pack provides a clear advantage compared to other Flankers.

 

[nightcrawler]

A good comparison of the SU-30 & F-15 is given below with appropriate reference to IAF

http://www.*******.com/file/146216179/46981ca0/Asias_Advance_Flankers.html

 

[PakShaheen79]

Don't forget the avionic differents! The French/Israeli avionic pack provides a clear advantage compared to other Flankers.

Indeed French and Israeli avionics are top of the line but when it comes to origin of new military technologies look only towards USA.

 

[Tomahawk]

hahahaha no matter what F 16 vs SU 30 one on one i think it is pilots who counted on those types of dog fights becoz both are similar type if F 16 dont have aesa than Su 30 dont have manuveribilty. so it is even steven

SU-30MKI's has got Thrust Vectoring Engine, which is specifically for agility and maneuverability.

For reference:

Thrust vectoring - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sancho]

Indeed French and Israeli avionics are top of the line but when it comes to origin of new military technologies look only towards USA.

Of course, but there must be a reason why Isreal refused to use the US EWS on their F15 strike eagles and used their own and the MKI uses the same. Even the F35 that Israel will get, will be customized with Israeli avionics, so they must have techs that are on par, or even superior to US 5. gen avionics right?
In this special field and if you think about the different amount of money that Israeli companies and US arms companies have for developments, they are doing a damn good job. No wonder that China wants to have good ties and arms developments with them too.