Debunking the PAF F-16 Down Myth: 5th Generation Warfare

[alphibeti]

A simple common sense which is not so common among Indians is that when you have weapon system such as AMRAAM, which is totally irrelevant when it came to terrorism, so who will it be than used again. I remember the statement by US officials that giving block 52 will help Pakistan lose a war rather slowly, meaning they knew they are giving a weapon of deterrence to Pakistan against India even if as per them Pakistan would eventually lose.

Yeah, that's my point too. Indians were crying like babies when we were getting this stuff from the US. Indians were making exactly the same point that most, if not all, of this stuff had nothing to do with war against terrorism. They were crying that all this would be used against India. Americans gave a shit to Indians in response. I don't know what exactly is written in the agreements, but all that advanced stuff was procured to safeguard our sovereignty against threats from wherever. Indians are now really trying fishing in urine.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

The fact they still have no evidence of anything they've done this week is proof in itself, the only people genuinely believing these lies are the mentally disabled

 

[American Pakistani]

Pakistanis should stop falling into indian propaganda of shooting F16 or F16 being used in the skirmish. DGISPR clearly confirmed only JF17 was used.

 

[Maxpane]

now we gave 499 amraam sir

 

[Imran Khan]

now we gave 499 amraam sir

aik india gya

 

[Maxpane]

aik india gya

g ur 3 ,generals pakr k dikha rahy hain

 

[LeGenD]

PAF F-16 fleet is not compromised from within for operations against India or another state. This nonsense should be put to rest.

PAF have utilized F-16 aircraft to intercept Indian Jets before, and also scrambled these to search for American helicopters which participated in Operation Neptune Spear. If these developments will not convince you, nothing will.

Americans can he unreliable political partners but not unreliable suppliers.

 

[Imran Khan]

PAF F-16 fleet is not compromised from within for operations against India or another state. This nonsense should be put to rest.

PAF have utilized F-16 aircraft to intercept Indian Jets before, and also scrambled these to search for American helicopters which participated in Operation Neptune Spear. If these developments will not convince you, nothing will.

Americans can he unreliable political partners but not unreliable suppliers.

F-16 Shot down Indian UAV(Israeli Searcher-II)




F-16 shot down an Indian Searcher-II UAV with AIM-9L at an altitude of 13000 ft on the night of june 07 2002 in punjab provice of pakistan
This was also confirmed by Indian Defence Ministry.

http://vayu-sena-aux.tripod.com/other-Parakram-IAF-UAV-Wreckage.html

It is not known how the aircraft flew,in what pattern,how long etc.
India does not want to reveal any details about it.

The PAF Aircheif said that the Aircraft was detected mobile observation posts rather than a radar.Thats surprising!!!

Searcher-II has a range of 250km and 14hrs of endurance.
India buyed large number and variety of Israeli UAVs.

 

[LeGenD]

F-16 Shot down Indian UAV(Israeli Searcher-II)




F-16 shot down an Indian Searcher-II UAV with AIM-9L at an altitude of 13000 ft on the night of june 07 2002 in punjab provice of pakistan
This was also confirmed by Indian Defence Ministry.

http://vayu-sena-aux.tripod.com/other-Parakram-IAF-UAV-Wreckage.html

It is not known how the aircraft flew,in what pattern,how long etc.
India does not want to reveal any details about it.

The PAF Aircheif said that the Aircraft was detected mobile observation posts rather than a radar.Thats surprising!!!

Searcher-II has a range of 250km and 14hrs of endurance.
India buyed large number and variety of Israeli UAVs.


View attachment 543692

View attachment 543693

Good find and example. Thank you, bhai.

This example alone should put to rest the unsubstantiated nonsense about American hardware being compromised. It is not.

 

[alphibeti]

today we have mixed some 76 f-16 air crafts in service .Pakistan have ordered first 40 f-16 block15 in1983 . we have received 40 of them before sanctions of presler amendment . PAF proudly used these f-16s against soviet union Afghanistan India in all types of combat missions . then again we ordered after long time in 2006 some 18 block-52 and we received them too . letter USAF delivered embargoed F-16s to paksitan and recently we buy from Jordan used F-16s too . now my question is how can USA have control over f-16 which they sale us in 1983 ? and we used them in many combat actions in past too . lets agree for 2 minutes we can not used f-16 block 52 against india(which is totally baseless) still we have some 67 f-16 we are free to use them as we want . about all this bogus claim most funny part is AIM-120 AMRAAM . Pakistan purchased largest single order of world some 512 units of AMRAAMs which is air to air missile . and they are useless against terrorists . it was Cristal clear form day 1 that these amraams will be used against areal targets which are for sure Indian air force jets .weapons package itself shouting that PAF bought them for fight india . 5billions $ package include many weapons and systems which were purchased on for counter india just read them again some orders even repeated like more sniper pods and more ALQ-131 pods



Item 1: New F-16 Block 50/52s - $3 billion

The package for Pakistan's new F-16s also includes:

• 36 F-16C/D Block 50/52 aircraft with either the F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines (IPEs) and APG-68(V)9 radars;
• 7 spare F100-PW-229 IPE or F110-GE-129 IPE engines;
• 7 spare APG-68(V)9 radar sets;
• 36 Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS);
• 36 AN/ARC-238 SINCGARS radios with HAVE QUICK I/II;
• 36 Conformal Fuel Tanks (pairs) that fit along the aircraft's sides to give them extra range;
• 36 Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals; DID has covered the tactical uses of MIDS-LVT Link 16 systems;
• 36 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/Inertial Navigation Systems;
• 36 APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems;
• 36 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Suites without Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or AN/ALQ-184 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-131 Electronic Counter Measures pod without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-187 Advanced Self-Protection Integrated Suites without DRFM; or AN/ALQ-178 Self-Protection Electronic Warfare Suites without DRFM;
• 1 Unit Level Trainer;

Item 2: Weapons for F-16C/D Block 50/52 Aircraft - $650 Million

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of:

• 500 AIM-120C5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM);

• 12 AMRAAM training missiles

• these have seeker warheads, but lack engines;

• 200 AIM-9M-8/9 Sidewinder Short-Range Air-Air Missiles; they are the version before the fifth-generation AIM-9X;

• 240 LAU-129/A Launchers

• these support AMRAAM or Sidewinder missiles;

• 500 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) Guidance Kits: GBU-31/38 Guided Bomb Unit (GBU) kits;

• 1600 Enhanced-GBU-12/24 GBUs;

• 800 MK-82 500 pound General Purpose (GP) and MK-84 2,000 pound GP bombs;

• 700 BLU-109 2000 pound bunker-buster bombs with the FMU-143 Fuse; and,

• Associated support equipment, software development/integration, modification kits, capability to employ a wide variety of munitions, spares, and repair parts, flight test instrumentation, publications, and technical documentation, CONUS-personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to ensure full program supportability will also be provided.

Item 3: F-16A/B Mid-Life Update Modification Kits - $1.3 billion

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale of 60 F-16A/B Mid-Life Update (MLU) modification and Falcon Star Structural Service Life Enhancement kits consisting of:

• APG-68(V)9 with Synthetic Aperture Radar or the APG-66(V)2 radar;
• Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS);
• AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe Systems;
• AN/ALE-47 Advanced Countermeasures Dispenser Systems;
• Have Quick I/II Radios;
• Link-16 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Low Volume Terminals (MIDS-LVT);
• SNIPER (formerly known as AN/AAQ-33 PANTERA) targeting pod capability;
• Reconnaissance pod capability;
• Advanced Air Combat Maneuvering Instrumentation Units (for training);

MDE included in the MLU modification and structural upgrade kits;

• 21 ALQ-131 Block II Electronic Countermeasures Pods without the Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM); or ALQ-184 Electronic Countermeasures Pods without DRFM;
• 60 ALQ-213 Electronic Warfare Management Systems;
• 1 Unit Level Trainer;
• 10 APG-68(V)9 spare radar sets.

Item 4: F-16A/B Engine Modifications & UP/STAR - $151 Million

The third contract involves Engine Modifications and Falcon UP/STAR Structural Upgrades as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $151 million.

More specifically, the Government of Pakistan has requested engine improvements and structural modifications to its F-16 fleet, which includes a possible sale of:

• 14 F100-PW-220E engines;
• 14 Falcon UP/STAR F-16 structural upgrade kits;
• De-modification and preparation of 26 aircraft;
• Support equipment;
• Software development/integration;
• Modification kits;
• Spares, and repair parts;
• Flight test instrumentation;
• Publications and technical documentation;
• Personnel training and training equipment;
• U.S. Government and contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related requirements to support the program.

PAF F-16 is for counter india since 1983 . it was somewhere in 2010 when some Indian journalists come with this theory that USA will not allow pakistan to use block-52 against india . it seems now its even tuned in indian brains that entire f-16 fleet can not be used against india which is totally baseless and funny .its been some 35 years now we are using f-16 against india and every hot scramble .
just remember an interview of general Musharraf when he was president and general too western journalists asked him the weapons USA give to fight terrorists are being used against india ?
Musharraf replied weapons delivered to military units and wherever units move they took their respective weapons with them too no matter whom they are going to fight india or taliban .

just look at it again its loading suit for war on terror on air combat ?

Here the silly Indian claims of shooting down F-16 go in smoke.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2019/03/02/falcon-vs-bison-verifying-a-mig-21-wreck/

The imagery appears to show an exhaust consistent with an R-25 engine found on the MiG-21bis. Additional imagery from the scene helps us verify this is the tail section.

If we rotate the image 180 degrees and put it side-by-side with a MiG-21’s tail, we have a good match.

For completeness, we can also match the section with the box which was claimed to contain an F-16 serial to this same piece.

According to a MiG-21 service manual available through CIA’s archive, we can determine that this is the thermocouple service hatch. Another manual for the aircraft states that the thermocouple junction box is located in this part of the aircraft, so it’s possible that is the function of the numbered box.

n fact, if we take a closer look at the service hatch, we can see a “CU” format serial number on there, which is used on the upgrade Indian MiG-21bis aircraft.

So, taken together, this is all so say that the claim about the writing on the junction box proving this is be an F-16 part is not correct. This is in fact very much part of an Indian MiG-21.


Here, YouTube gives us another interesting point of comparison. Reportedly, a MiG-21bis was shot down in Croatia in 1991, and the wreckage of the aircraft is on display at the “museum collection of the homeland war in Turanj“. The YouTube walkaround of this wreckage shows features which match better to a MiG-21 than an F-16.

In summary, there’s no compelling evidence offered as of yet that an F-16 would have been shot down, and all signs point to MiG-21 wreckage having been on display thus far.

 

[Imran Khan]

Here the silly Indian claims of shooting down F-16 goes in smoke.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/rest-of-world/2019/03/02/falcon-vs-bison-verifying-a-mig-21-wreck/

The imagery appears to show an exhaust consistent with an R-25 engine found on the MiG-21bis. Additional imagery from the scene helps us verify this is the tail section.

If we rotate the image 180 degrees and put it side-by-side with a MiG-21’s tail, we have a good match.

For completeness, we can also match the section with the box which was claimed to contain an F-16 serial to this same piece.

According to a MiG-21 service manual available through CIA’s archive, we can determine that this is the thermocouple service hatch. Another manual for the aircraft states that the thermocouple junction box is located in this part of the aircraft, so it’s possible that is the function of the numbered box.

n fact, if we take a closer look at the service hatch, we can see a “CU” format serial number on there, which is used on the upgrade Indian MiG-21bis aircraft.

So, taken together, this is all so say that the claim about the writing on the junction box proving this is be an F-16 part is not correct. This is in fact very much part of an Indian MiG-21.


Here, YouTube gives us another interesting point of comparison. Reportedly, a MiG-21bis was shot down in Croatia in 1991, and the wreckage of the aircraft is on display at the “museum collection of the homeland war in Turanj“. The YouTube walkaround of this wreckage shows features which match better to a MiG-21 than an F-16.

In summary, there’s no compelling evidence offered as of yet that an F-16 would have been shot down, and all signs point to MiG-21 wreckage having been on display thus far.

i know from day 2 we have not shot down any su-30 and they have not shot down any f-16 . all the game was between thunders and mirages with mig-21s . and one of them bit the dust . i have only question mark over that mi-17 .

 

[Pandora]

aik india gya

Aik india kay andar tak gaya aur phat gaya

 

[IrishWhiskey]

It would be very difficult for india to prove Pakistan broke the sales term. As there have been various sale agreements with different clause. One of the clause which says Pakistan cannot use the American technology for offensive purpose, is very difficult to prove, as Pakistan can claim it was for defense against on coming indian aggression.

Non the less, there is a lot Pakistan needs to clarify in regard to two jets and three pilots.
Similarly Indians need to prove that they hit the targets as well as F16.
Chirping of Abhinandan would not get India any brownie points, until India brings along the proofs to substiantiate the story.
Similarly Pakistan releasing a video submission was putting foot on wrong axe just for domestic consumption.

 

[CriticalThought]

F-16 Shot down Indian UAV(Israeli Searcher-II)




F-16 shot down an Indian Searcher-II UAV with AIM-9L at an altitude of 13000 ft on the night of june 07 2002 in punjab provice of pakistan
This was also confirmed by Indian Defence Ministry.

http://vayu-sena-aux.tripod.com/other-Parakram-IAF-UAV-Wreckage.html

It is not known how the aircraft flew,in what pattern,how long etc.
India does not want to reveal any details about it.

The PAF Aircheif said that the Aircraft was detected mobile observation posts rather than a radar.Thats surprising!!!

Searcher-II has a range of 250km and 14hrs of endurance.
India buyed large number and variety of Israeli UAVs.


View attachment 543692

View attachment 543693

Look, there are going to be many ifs and buts in what I write. This is a necessity because of the nature of the topic at hand. But IF America did indeed put in mechanisms to control behavior, they MAY have engineered them t respond only under the presence of certain electromagnetic signals. The debate on the forum is futile.

Let's be very clear. The F-16s of Pakistan have never been used in anger against an ally of USA with the explicit intent of shooting to kill. IF the F-16s were actually used, the operators would have a very good idea already whether it worked or not. But even if it worked, no logical, knowledgeable person can disregard the risk of interference in the future.

 

[Signalian]

sorry i miscalculate crashes

Never got replacements for the 8 crashes and 1 downed.