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In Thailand, Being Black or Looking Dark is ‘Ugly’: Racist, or just misguided?

I don't know enough about Japanese to say that that's correct or not, but I will say that that's one of the key differences between Thais and Viets although I did notice that Japanese have a number of characteristics in common with Thais including the importance of saving face, which is after all a very typical Asian trait although Thais take it to an extreme and I've seen some elements of that in Japanese people also.

Chinese also think Thais in general are very non-straightforward and take saving face to a new level. I have never been to Thailand but that's what my friends who have been there say; they mostly agree with you. I think that Vietnamese are more face conscious than Chinese are and not straightforward, but not as much as Thai and Japanese.
 
you said Chinese were like Indians. I disagree with that. And don't compare Chinese and Viets in terms of "being civilized". We invented civilization.

Recently Chinese is civilized by Japanese.

Examples of Japanese words adopted into Chinese

直接 chokusetsu (direct)
注射 chūsha (injection)
出口 deguchi (exit)
伝染病 densenbyō (contagious disease)
電子 denshi (electron)
動脈 dōmyaku (artery)
原子 denshi (atom)
百貨店 yakkaten (department store)
入口 iriguchi (entrance)
時間 jikan (time)
決算 kessan (closing of accounts)
企業 kigyō (business)
小型 kogata (compact)
工業 kōgyō (industry)
広告 kōkoku (advertisement)
国際 kokusai (international)
空間 kǖkan (space)
民族 minzoku (people)
農民 nōmin (farmer)
大型 ōgata (large scale)
歴史 rekishi (history)
劣勢 ressei (inferiority)
政党 seitō (political party)
社会 shakai (society)
市場 shijō (market)
自然科学 shizen kagaku (natural science)
所得税 shotokuzei (income tax)
出版 shuppan (publishing)
主体 shutai (main subject)
相対 sōtai (relative)
体育 taiiku (physical education)
体操 taisō (calesthenics)
投資 tōshi (investment)
優勢 yǖsei (superiority)
絶対 zettai (absolute)

Note that the word Culture 文化 is copied from Japanese.

Examples of Japanese words adopted into Chinese | Japan Probe
 
Chinese also think Thais in general are very non-straightforward and take saving face to a new level. I have never been to Thailand but that's what my friends who have been there say; they mostly agree with you. I think that Vietnamese are more face conscious than Chinese are and not straightforward, but not as much as Thai and Japanese.

Yes, Thais have developed a number of traits to such a point that has become a very unique social characteristic that is not similar to anybody else. That's why I keep saying that Thais are very different to Viets or Chinese in particular, but also to just about everybody else. Can ask any Thai chinese how similar they feel they are to regular Thais and the answer is always no way. They usually see themselves as Chinese that happened to be born in Thailand.

I also always say that Viets are very similar to chinese, but I never said that are the same, there are differences of course, but the similarities are striking and there is no other country as similar to China by far. Just my 2 cents. Time to go to work.

@Yorozuya Read my last post to you again, I added something that you really need to read.
 
Recently Chinese is civilized by Japanese.

Examples of Japanese words adopted into Chinese

直接 chokusetsu (direct)
注射 chūsha (injection)
出口 deguchi (exit)
伝染病 densenbyō (contagious disease)
電子 denshi (electron)
動脈 dōmyaku (artery)
原子 denshi (atom)
百貨店 yakkaten (department store)
入口 iriguchi (entrance)
時間 jikan (time)
決算 kessan (closing of accounts)
企業 kigyō (business)
小型 kogata (compact)
工業 kōgyō (industry)
広告 kōkoku (advertisement)
国際 kokusai (international)
空間 kǖkan (space)
民族 minzoku (people)
農民 nōmin (farmer)
大型 ōgata (large scale)
歴史 rekishi (history)
劣勢 ressei (inferiority)
政党 seitō (political party)
社会 shakai (society)
市場 shijō (market)
自然科学 shizen kagaku (natural science)
所得税 shotokuzei (income tax)
出版 shuppan (publishing)
主体 shutai (main subject)
相対 sōtai (relative)
体育 taiiku (physical education)
体操 taisō (calesthenics)
投資 tōshi (investment)
優勢 yǖsei (superiority)
絶対 zettai (absolute)

Note that the word Culture 文化 is copied from Japanese.

Examples of Japanese words adopted into Chinese | Japan Probe

List of gairaigo and wasei-eigo terms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And Japanese use 10x more English words while Chinese use exclusively Chinese terms.

I have a very hard time believing that 历史 comes from Japanese, because that term has been used since the Three Kingdoms. Japanese are very good at making things up, mixing in truths with lies or half-truths.

历史_百度百科

“纳鲁肃于凡品,是其聪也……屈身於陛下,是其略也” 裴松之 注引《吴书》:“﹝ 吴王 ﹞志存经略,虽有馀闲,博览书传历史,藉采奇异,不效诸生寻章摘句而已。”

Yes, Thais have developed a number of traits to such a point that has become a very unique social characteristic that is not similar to anybody else. That's why I keep saying that Thais are very different to Viets or Chinese in particular, but also to just about everybody else. Can ask any Thai chinese how similar they feel they are to regular Thais and the answer is always no way. They usually see themselves as Chinese that happened to be born in Thailand.

I also always say that Viets are very similar to chinese, but I never said that are the same, there are differences of course, but the similarities are striking and there is no other country as similar to China by far. Just my 2 cents. Time to go to work.

@Yorozuya Read my last post to you again, I added something that you really need to read.

Just saying here: most Chinese think that we are culturally unique and that though Vietnamese and Koreans are similar to Southern and Northern Chinese respectively in some traits, they have peculiar character traits that are not typical of all Chinese, while all Chinese have a shared set of unique Chinese values that we don't think others share. I also have to say there's alot of differences in what character traits are valued, how we deal with adversity and how we deal with unfamiliar situations. For example: do Vietnamese think that there are things that are inherently wrong, or is it only wrong if others say its wrong? Shame culture or guilt culture? What about emphasis on science/literature? Are things worth doing for the sake of knowledge alone, even with no material reward? What about attitude towards religion?

I think that from my relationships with Vietnamese in the US, they have different answers to those questions than most Chinese do.
 
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Yes, Thais have developed a number of traits to such a point that has become a very unique social characteristic that is not similar to anybody else. That's why I keep saying that Thais are very different to Viets or Chinese in particular, but also to just about everybody else. Can ask any Thai chinese how similar they feel they are to regular Thais and the answer is always no way. They usually see themselves as Chinese that happened to be born in Thailand.

I also always say that Viets are very similar to chinese, but I never said that are the same, there are differences of course, but the similarities are striking and there is no other country as similar to China by far. Just my 2 cents. Time to go to work.

@Yorozuya Read my last post to you again, I added something that you really need to read.

Thanks, I’ve just quickly read your previous post and I know what you are saying. Even that description, to me fits us Viets, but to different degree.

One thing I’m suspicious about your views regarding the Thai is that you keep on insisting that the Thai have some kind of a real superiority complex. They, in my view, actually have a inferiority complex just like most Viets and most Asians, but they deal with it in different ways.

If you know how to troll Thai people in real life, you can easily make them expose their inferiority complex. My interaction with Thai is deeper than just visiting or eating at their house, etc. Some Thai I know, we’ve been friends for years. And I love trolling them in real life (I dont troll on PDF though, I am here to learn and discuss). Lets just say, these Thai are just hiding their inferiority complex with a brave mask that resembles a superiority complex and nationalism. If the admins and mods can agree to give me a temporary immunity from getting banned (please lobby this for me if you agree), I can try to show you this by trolling the Thai members here. Of course, Im only talking in general terms since not every Thai are like what I said.

And here is my question to you...If you think the Thai really do possess a geniune superiority complex or Thai exceptionalism (as expressed by their nationalism, etc), then why does their country tolerate such relatively widespread prostitution that often results in embarrassing incidents for Thailand??

Would a nation with a geniune superiorty complex or some kind of real nationalism/racial exceptionalism (I’m thinking about Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy here) tolerate social issues such as widespread prostitution where a lot of clients are foreigners, especially when such issue is the butt of a joke for many foreign countries? I cant see Nazi Germany/Fascist Italy would tolerate this kind of situation.

OK I’ll be off for a few hours.
 
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“纳鲁肃于凡品,是其聪也……屈身於陛下,是其略也” 裴松之 注引《吴书》:“﹝ 吴王 ﹞志存经略,虽有馀闲,博览书传历史,藉采奇异,不效诸生寻章摘句而已。”
There is an example only. The word "History" is came from westerner. In the past in China (Vietnam too), people has saying " 史记", it may got similar meaning to word History.

What you quoted above is to Calendar, so the meaning of this clause is got a meaning of "Chronicle", not a "history".
 
There is an example only. The word "History" is came from westerner. In the past in China (Vietnam too), people has saying " 史记", it may got similar meaning to word History.

What you quoted above is to Calendar, so the meaning of this clause is got a meaning of "Chronicle", not a "history".

you said that the 历史 term was coined by Japanese, but it wasn't.. It was used in Three Kingdoms. here 历史 means "all the histories". 史记 refers to a specific book, the word 史 itself means "history" of something. if you understood Chinese, you'd recognize that 传 (a verb) is used before 历 and 史, which are not verbs, so 历史 here is obviously the object.
 
Thanks, I’ve just quickly read your previous post and I know what you are saying. Even that description, to me fits us Viets, but to different degree.

One thing I’m suspicious about your views regarding the Thai is that you keep on insisting that the Thai have some kind of a real superiority complex. They, in my view, actually have a inferiority complex just like most Viets and most Asians, but they deal with it in different ways.

If you know how to troll Thai people in real life, you can easily make them expose their inferiority complex. My interaction with Thai is deeper than just visiting or eating at their house, etc. Some Thai I know, we’ve been friends for years. And I love trolling them in real life (I dont troll on PDF though, I am here to learn and discuss). Lets just say, these Thai are just hiding their inferiority complex with a brave mask that resembles a superiority complex and nationalism. If the admins and mods can agree to give me a temporary immunity from getting banned (please lobby this for me if you agree), I can try to show you this by trolling the Thai members here. Of course, Im only talking in general terms since not every Thai are like what I said.

And here is my question to you...If you think the Thai really do possess a geniune superiority complex or Thai exceptionalism (as expressed by their nationalism, etc), then why does their country tolerate such relatively widespread prostitution that often results in embarrassing incidents for Thailand??

Would a nation with a geniune superiorty complex or some kind of real nationalism/racial exceptionalism (I’m thinking about Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy here) tolerate social issues such as widespread prostitution where a lot of clients are foreigners, especially when such issue is the butt of a joke for many foreign countries? I cant see Nazi Germany/Fascist Italy would tolerate this kind of situation.

OK I’ll be off for a few hours.

I really understand you when you say: "Oh Viet people are like that too". But the thing is, its actually to a very high degree of difference and fits into a different mold pattern. When you combine all those things, the end result is a very different national trait and characteristics.

Yes, they do have a very strong superiority complex, but they will not show it in a straight way, face to face, again, that would be against their cultural pattern. They always blame everything on foreigners as much as possible and they always make excuses to save face; yes, you are going to say: Viets too, but no, its way, way different.

Why they have a superiority complex and still they allow their reputation to be trashed? Ahhh another element of the Thai cultural pattern, the concept of "Mai pen rai" Never mind, let them do, its their business, I don't care, I don't get involved,live and let live. If you dig deep into the Thai social fabric, you'll see that prostitution is just one of many negative elements that have grown to incredible levels. Homicides, Thailand is number 1 together with USA. Human trafficking, that's big time there as recently got exposed (exposed in just minor ways, there is a lot more). Corruption, that's big time with Thai police and the military. They are involved with everything. Prostitution is illegal in Thailand actually, surprised? No problem, as long as the police get their cut, everything is a go. Prostitution directed to the Thai market is actually much bigger than prostitution dedicated to the foreign / tourist market, which is just an extension of the local market.

But still, how can that be possible if Thais are so proud and have such a superiority complex? Ahhh because 80-90% of the prostitutes come from Isan (North east, Lao people), they are not even considered real Thai people by the Bangkok elite, so who cares about them? They have to be good for something after all and they have to serve the local market also. That's how they see it. Oh my God, but how about the country reputation? Are we making money? (meaning the police and the elites are making money?) then who cares, its fine, money talks in Thailand, everything is for sale including the country's reputation if there is good money to be made.

Thailand is known for always going in whatever direction the wind blows, they have no problem with that, principles? who cares about that? What direction leads to more profits? Ok, lets go in that direction. That's another Thai cultural pattern.

You have a strong analytical mind, but the problem here is that you are trying to understand Thailand with Viet eyes and it doesn't work that way. Why would Thailand allowed its reputation to be trashed with prostitution? Vietnam would never allowed that. Actually, in Vietnam is illegal for a foreigner to be in a hotel room with a Viet woman unless they are legally married. Thailand would never do something like that. Many things that don't make sense to you lead you to the wrong conclusions about Thailand, but those things do make sense for Thailand.

See it as a contradiction if you like, but it actually fits into their cultural pattern. When in doubt, listen to the people that have a lot of experience in Thailand, you can easily research this online, go to thaivisa.com (main forum for westerners in Thailand), etc. You will find that people will tell you the same things that I tell you. A few people here already told you so.
 
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Chinese also think Thais in general are very non-straightforward and take saving face to a new level. I have never been to Thailand but that's what my friends who have been there say; they mostly agree with you. I think that Vietnamese are more face conscious than Chinese are and not straightforward, but not as much as Thai and Japanese.

I definitely agree on that about Thailand and you are probably right about Vietnamese and Chinese also.
I need to research more about Japanese, but I did notice that they are very fond of Thai people and that might be a reflection of their similarity on some of those traits although they are very different in many other aspects also.
 
I really understand you when you say: "Oh Viet people are like that too". But the thing is, its actually to a very high degree and fits into a different mold pattern. When you combine all those things, the end result is a very different national trait and characteristics.

Yes, they do have a very strong superiority complex, but they will not show it in a straight way, face to face, again, that would be against their cultural pattern. They always blame everything on foreigners as much as possible and they always make excuses to save face; yes, you are going to say: Viets too, but no, its way, way different.

Why they have a superiority complex and still they allow their reputation to be trashed? Ahhh another element of the Thai cultural pattern, the concept of "Mai pen rai" Never mind, let them do, its their business, I don't care, I don't get involved. If you dig deep into the Thai social fabric, you'll see that prostitution is just one of many negative elements that have grown to incredible levels. Homicides, Thailand is number 1 together with USA. Human trafficking, that's big time there as recently got exposed (exposed in just minor ways, there is a lot more). Corruption, that's big time with Thai police and the military. They are involved with everything. Prostitution is illegal in Thailand actually, surprised? No problem, as long as the police get their cut, everything is a go. Prostitution directed to the Thai market is actually much bigger than prostitution dedicated to the foreign / tourist market, which is just an extension of the local market.

But still, how can that be possible if Thais are so proud and have such a superiority complex? Ahhh because 80-90% of the prostitutes come from Isan (North east, Lao people), they are not even considered real Thai people by the Bangkok elite, so who cares about them? They have to be good for something after all and they have to serve the local market also. That's how they see it. Oh my God, but how about the country reputation? Are we making money? (meaning the police and the elites are making money?) then who cares, its fine, money talks in Thailand, everything is for sale including the country's reputation if there is good money to be made.

Thailand is known for always going in whatever direction the wind blows, they have no problem with that, principles? who cares about that? What direction leads to more profits? Ok, lets go in that direction. That's another Thai cultural pattern.

You have a strong analytical mind, but the problem here is that you are trying to understand Thailand with Viet eyes and it doesn't work that way. Why would Thailand allowed its reputation to be trashed with prostitution? Vietnam would never allowed that. Actually, in Vietnam is illegal for a foreigner to be in a hotel room with a Viet woman unless they are legally married. Thailand would never do something like that. Many things that don't make sense to you lead you in the wrong way about Thailand, but those things do make sense for Thailand.

See it as a contradiction if you like, but it actually fits into their cultural pattern. When in doubt, listen to the people that have a lot of experience in Thailand, you can easily research this online, go to thaivisa.com, etc. You will find that people will tell you the same things that I tell you. A few people here already told you so.

thats something I've found quite interesting, that you say Thai people don't consider all Thais to be equally "Thai"; minorities are thought of as less Thai than the Bangkok ppl. Thailand also seems to be a VERY money centered society despite being very religious.
 
thats something I've found quite interesting, that you say Thai people don't consider all Thais to be equally "Thai"; minorities are thought of as less Thai than the Bangkok ppl. Thailand also seems to be a VERY money centered society despite being very religious.

Oh yes, real native Thai people are the central Thailand people (Ayuthaya period Thais) and to a little less degree the south people, those 2 are allies. North East and North Thailand is a whole different story, you can even find quite a bit of interest in those areas for separation from Thailand. They are heavily discriminated by the central Thais. For central Thais, Thailand is Bangkok and everything else is secondary. Since the north and north east are 2 distinct ethnic groups that are quite different from central Thais, Lanna in the north and Lao in the north east they are not seen as "real Thais". Also, in the western areas, near Cambodia, there is a lot of ethnic Khmer people since those areas used to be Cambodian provinces.

The reality is that the real historical Thailand is mainly the central Thailand of today. The other areas are territories that they took over, so its not the same thing.

This situation is also reflected at the political level where you have the Bangkok elite and the royalist on one hand and thats central and south Thailand and the red shirts which are north and north east Thailand. There is a divide there that is actually quite explosive and sooner or later is going to end up exploding in a nasty way.

Thailand also seems to be a VERY money centered society despite being very religious.

Thailand is an extremely money centered society. They are capable of doing a lot for the sake of money, but they hide it very well.

They are not as religious as they make it look like, all that temple building is just to show off about how religious they are. Thais mainly go to the temple to pray when they have problems or to pray to win the lottery. The way they live and much of the issues in Thailand such as the prostitution, human trafficking and many other things are clearly a contradiction with the Buddhist way of life.

Thai monks get into scandals all the time also.

Thailand is not what you see, they are masters at putting up a facade, but the reality is very different.
 
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The feature is something very important, and for many beautiful Indonesian women they dont see much on man's skin actually to look for husband.

For woman, many of fair skin women get preference here, but there are still dark (brown) skin women who become media darling like these ones

1. Wulandari Herman (16 best in miss universe)


miss-indonesia-2013-universe-Whulandary-Herman-02.jpg


2. Titi Radjo Bintang

titi-sjuman-jarang-pulang-ke-rumah-20130205004501.jpg
 
Thai is complicated. people from north are related to Chinese. and Thai Chinese have lighter skin than locals
 

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