In a Test of Wills, Japanese Confront Chinese in Air

[Aepsilons]

Please show restraint.

he he he, i'm sure cooler heads will win the day.

To whom ? ... we'd better remember how awful when War Machine of a Manufacturing Power begin to run ...

Technically speaking, PRC is still in a state of war with ROC.

But pragmatism wins the day.

 

[Shotgunner51]

An article by New York times, I see.. They are basically try create a rife. China and Japan has improve recently and Abe realize his abenomic cannot revive Japan economy without China participation.

Japan economy last year was a disaster and fell back to negative growth or stagnant

Japan lowers estimate of 4Q growth, still escaped recession - US News

Yes, "Pivot to Asia" is meeting its original design objective i.e. dragging down Japan and China

Next let's see what's outcome of Euro zone and Russia, both will also fail if the "Pivot to Europe" works as planned. However apparently cooler head like Merkel is awake to that.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Its been going on for 3 years already.
China fly by disputed islands, Japan intercepts.
I don't think either side will shoot.
I believe both pilots are just following orders.

 

[Aepsilons]

Its been going on for 3 years already.
China fly by disputed islands, Japan intercepts.
I don't think either side will shoot.
I believe both pilots are just following orders.

Try over 3 decades.

During my days in the JMSDF, we hailed PLAN warships whenever we neared them, or whenever they neared us, they hailed us. There is a code of professionalism and an honor system between our side and theirs.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Try over 3 decades.

During my days in the JMSDF, we hailed PLAN warships whenever we neared them, or whenever they neared us, they hailed us. There is a code of professionalism and an honor system between our side and theirs.

Exactly.

PLAN will continue to hail to JMSDF, even as an opponent/rival/enemy, for it being one of the 3 most professional navies now as well as in naval history.

But I gonna shoot you personally with water gun ... ... cos no more real war can happen ...

 

[Aepsilons]

Exactly.

PLAN will continue to hail to JMSDF, even as an opponent/rival/enemy, for it being one of the 3 most professional navies now as well as in naval history.

But I gonna shoot you personally with water gun ... ... cos no more real war can happen ...

ha ha ha. Don't temp me, buddy, I'll have to bring my Super Soaker 3000 on you....

 

[Shotgunner51]

ha ha ha. Don't temp me, buddy, I'll have to bring my Super Soaker 3000 on you....

LOL ...

By the way do you have any idea on how big (and how advanced of its equipment say Zero Fighter) was the Imperial Navy and Air-force during its peak?

How does that compare to US and say Britain?

If you start a new thread please tag me bro.

@Beast I guess from China's POV, while having the largest industrial output in almost everything like steel (while tech is still a way to catch), it would be interested to see how Japan/US/UK convert war machine during WWII into combat-readiness.

 

[cnleio]

Technically speaking, PRC is still in a state of war with ROC.

But pragmatism wins the day.

@BoQ77 Sorry, i forget the TaiWan ...

Breath-taking pic!

Yes, the Imperial Japan has stunning forces with the machine fully on war mode. Nazi Germany was the same, on land forces. Only the even bigger war machine of US (also keep the allies supplied) can take on them combined.

A vivid example of how China should pursue its development.
Key Trends in Globalisation: China has overtaken the US to become the world's largest industrial producer
However with free hands on acquisition of know-hows/people from other tech centers like Japan/Korea/Germany, an huge advantage unmatched by China, US still possess lead in tech.

A big country like U.S, has enough resources inside state to fight a long years War ... but it will be a disaster for the small country who lack strategy resources ... even has advanced tech but enormous quantity can quickly reduce the gap, the WWII had proved it (M4/T-34 vs Tiger, The Pacific War).

Now U.S is still 1st economic entity, China is 2nd ... but China is world-level Manufacturing Power and she has big lands & population & abundant resources inside nation. And China can produce domestic equipments compared with U.S weapons.

 

[Aepsilons]

LOL ...

By the way do you have any idea on how big (and how advanced of its equipment say Zero Fighter) was the Imperial Navy and Air-force during its peak?

How does that compare to US and say Britain?

If you start a new thread please tag me bro.

@Beast I guess from China's POV, while having the largest industrial output in almost everything like steel (while tech is still a way to catch), it would be interested to see how Japan/US/UK convert war machine during WWII into combat-readiness.

By 1940, the Imperial Army Air Service's strength:

Over 1,600 aircraft (including 1,375 first line combat aircraft):

• 36 fighter squadrons
• 28 light bomber squadrons
• 22 medium-heavy bomber squadrons

By 1940, the Imperial Navy's Air Service's strength:

• The IJNAS had over 3,089 aircraft in 1941 and 370 trainers.

Total Combined Number: 4,689 fighters + bombers

 

[Cossack25A1]

I read in the previous page that South Korea has more F-16s and F-15Ks, now if I remember it correctly, the Mitsubishi F-2 is comparable to the F-16s and Japan has license to produce the F-15J, right?

 

[Aepsilons]

Now U.S is still 1st economic entity, China is 2nd ... but China is world-level Manufacturing Power and she has big lands & population & abundant resources inside nation. And China can produce domestic equipments compared with U.S weapons.

Bro,

You need to also consider the strategic depth and strategic reality. America was far away, her industrial centers were mostly centered in her eastern sea board (mid atlantic), as well as in northern regions such as Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, and also in the Pacific Coast -- California (san diego, san fran, sacramento, los angeles). The fact that they were so far away from the fighting and were too far away from the reach of Japanese bombers as well as German bombers meant that their production was not incapacitated.

That was not the case in China, Britain, France, which had their industrial centers leveled by bombings from the Imperial Air Force and Luftwaffe , respectively. China, unfortunately, did not nor does it enjoy the American strategic depth of being an entire hemisphere away from rivals.

America enjoys that strategic and geographic flexibility that allows her industrial centers a natural protection, which does not exist for other nation states.

I read in the previous page that South Korea has more F-16s and F-15Ks, now if I remember it correctly, the Mitsubishi F-2 is comparable to the F-16s and Japan has license to produce the F-15J, right?

Of course we do.

A big country like U.S, has enough resources inside state to fight a long years War ... but it will be a disaster for the small country who lack strategy resources ... even has advanced tech but enormous quantity can quickly reduce the gap, the WWII had proved it (M4/T-34 vs Tiger, The Pacific War).

Now U.S is still 1st economic entity, China is 2nd ... but China is world-level Manufacturing Power and she has big lands & population & abundant resources inside nation. And China can produce domestic equipments compared with U.S weapons.

Location + immense natural resources + large population , and a self sustaining economy, the United States has immense advantage over many of its former rivals, as well as present rivals in the geostrategic realm.

 

[cnleio]

By 1940, the Imperial Army Air Service's strength:

Over 1,600 aircraft (including 1,375 first line combat aircraft):

• 36 fighter squadrons
• 28 light bomber squadrons
• 22 medium-heavy bomber squadrons

By 1940, the Imperial Navy's Air Service's strength:

• The IJNAS had over 3,089 aircraft in 1941 and 370 trainers.

Total Combined Number: 4,689 fighters + bombers

Yes, before WWII the U.S Airforce & Navy less strength than Japanese Empire, less aircrafts and Imperial Navy destroyed most warships of U.S Pacific Fleet at the beginning ... ... But American can produce & add more new aircrafts & warships in a short time during whole Pacific War.

When War Machine of a Manufacturing Power start to RUN ... the WAR changed !

 

[Cossack25A1]

When the Soviet Union was attacked by Nazi Germany WWII, one of the things the Russians did is move their industrial base towards Siberia and when they successfully done that, they churned out tanks and other weapons that the Nazis cannot catch up in armaments production.

I guess Russia still has this kind of advantage if their industrial capabilities are rejuvenated.

 

[cnleio]

Bro,

You need to also consider the strategic depth and strategic reality. America was far away, her industrial centers were mostly centered in her eastern sea board (mid atlantic), as well as in northern regions such as Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, and also in the Pacific Coast -- California (san diego, san fran, sacramento, los angeles). The fact that they were so far away from the fighting and were too far away from the reach of Japanese bombers as well as German bombers meant that their production was not incapacitated.

That was not the case in China, Britain, France, which had their industrial centers leveled by bombings from the Imperial Air Force and Luftwaffe , respectively. China, unfortunately, did not nor does it enjoy the American strategic depth of being an entire hemisphere away from rivals.

America enjoys that strategic and geographic flexibility that allows her industrial centers a natural protection, which does not exist for other nation states.

Sure, also need to consider a country's strategic depth & attack resistance capability ... so most China Institute and weapons factory set inside internal mountain areas, only Navy dockyard set in China's eastern coastal cities.

 

[Aepsilons]

Yes, before WWII the U.S Airforce & Navy less strength than Japanese Empire, less aircrafts and Imperial Navy destroyed most warships of U.S Pacific Fleet at the beginning ... ... But American can produce & add more new aircrafts & warships in a short time during whole Pacific War.

When War Machine of a Manufacturing Power start to RUN ... the WAR changed !
View attachment 200840

Precisely, bro ! I love reading about American Industrial Revolution, which started in the early 19th century, and the natural character of Americans, their entrepreneurial and commercial spirit that enabled the development of their industrial might. The way the country is shaped, the location and postion of their industrial centers are so widely interspersed throughout the continental United States that in the event of a naval bombardment on one coast, it wouldn't lead to the collapse of their industry, since there is the midwest, the south, and the pacific region.

From the get go, Japan was doomed to a defensive warfare with the United States because the Imperial Military Command thought that the United States would fight an attrition war. They believed that American would fight for every island in the pacific and that the casualties and cost to take these islands would inhibit the American drive to fight. Well, America thought outside the box, they fought assymetrically when they implemented their Leap Frog Doctrine, literally and purposely bypassing heavily defended islands such as Rabaul, and utilized naval blockade to starve many other island chains into submission.

America knew Japan's war strategy. It was defensive. That meant that Japan wouldn't be sending any naval forces to the American coast and thus there was no enemy threat on her industrial centers. Meaning they were pumping out planes, tanks, guns, helmets, tractors, ships , production capacity was 100%, no damages. Japan, on the other hand, had been slowly , slowly being targetted by American bombers since Dolittle's raid. And As American forces took islands close to the home islands, they were targetting our industrial cities (yokohama, maizuru, tokyo, nagasaki, hiroshima, Yokosuka, Sapporo etc etc), a slow and attrition warfare. Their production was at 100%, but ours was decreasing every month as their bombers struck their targets again, and again.

The same is true for what happened to Germany and the great German industrial centers as Soviet air force, British air force and American air forces were slowly strangulating Germany's industrial capability.

The point is this buddy, it doesn't matter how strong your industrial capability is, what matters is how you can protect it, prevent it from being targetted by enemy bombers is what counts. Germany, in the beginning of the war had a greater industrial capability that the Soviets , and the other allies. However, as allied bombings took a toll on their inudstrial centers such as Hamburg, Dresden, Berlin, Frankfurt --- that affected their ability to prosecute the war and to defend itself.

Industrial Capacity does not win wars (as the German case shows), but it is how well one's industrial centers can survive strategic attacks , that predicates a nation's ability to sustain a long war. Then one has to consider the commensurability of the fighting capability of the armed forces, which is also another independent variable to consider.




Regards,

When the Soviet Union was attacked by Nazi Germany WWII, one of the things the Russians did is move their industrial base towards Siberia and when they successfully done that, they churned out tanks and other weapons that the Nazis cannot catch up in armaments production.

I guess Russia still has this kind of advantage if their industrial capabilities are rejuvenated.

Industrial Capability + Offensive capability to harass the enemy's (Germany) own industrial center.

That was realized in the Allied bombing raids on Germany's industrial centers, which demolished the 3rd Reich's ability to mobilize offensive capability.