What's new

In a first, Russia began military exercise near Afghan borders

Their is nothing left as such to be called Balkanisation. Though, 1 or 2 parties would take a chance to consume it like pie and I other side would like to poison it if being betrayed, therefore, I will have to keep it safe for my own survival or having no other chance, would take big out of it.

Man i wrote a whole piece and the back Button got pressed.(@WebMaster before the changes the written Text would Not be lost). Life is so unfair. Anyhow

I am Sorry but that is a survivolist kinda View. Pakistans survivalibilty is probably the best among Nation States if not the best and that is an accepted fact.

Eagle man you are like my younger Brother so we can bet on the last piece of yesterdays Pizza that Pakistan will annex parts of Afghanistan in coming coming years.

Reason: because the scenario you present is a National Security matter. Its a legal binding
 
First of all this Russian exercise is not the hint of any incursion in Afghanistan what I am debating is a future scenario where the situation could go worst and require a direct intervention by regional countries to safeguard their legitimate interests with coordinated "regional" approach. In Afghanistan America is an extra regional power
Afghanistan is different than Syria in some major aspects.
exactly because of this reason its more dangerous, so as we have witness in Syria America and Russia sometime exchange information for their operations in areas near to each other control/influence, so the point is they are avoiding the direct confrontation with each other the same model of communicative can be used to avoid the direct confrontation with US forces which are already in limited numbers.
Anyways, If you really want to keep the model in front, one major part of it was that Syrian Military was backed by Russian Military which took active part in the fight.
exactly Syria had a working central government and somewhat functional defence forces which Afghanistan lack so in a scenario of non-existent government rather to let Afghanistan go in the hands of war and drug lords same as decade of 90s where we witness an incident hijacking of school bus with number of school going children by Afghan terrorist backed by one of the faction of Northern Alliance (I think by Abdul Rasheed Dostum group, if my memory serve me right) and in recent past we have witness APS incident so to avoid any such incident by any group either TTP or ISIS or by any other terrorist group decisive action by regional block will be requried.
Pakistan Army if goes in with Chinese Military assets supporting it, which is highly unlikely, then the PA and Talib support factor will be highlighted.
not just by Pakistan or China but a Collation of all the countries Sharing Border with Afghanistan Russia and China can provide diplomatic and material support.
 
Axis of evil (India, Israel and USA) will do whatever to further destabilise Afghanistan. Pakistan, Russia, China and Iran are already aware of this and have joined the hands. Syrian model may not be replicable here since ground realities are very different. ISIS was native to Iraq / Syria but Afghanistan is a foreign territory for these terrorists. Moreover, now the world is already aware and Putin has experience of fighting USA and its proxies in Syria.

The Talibans are real stake holders and local force to reckon so they should be empowered and supported without ifs and buts by all positive powers (China, Russia, Iran & Pakistan) while they should be aided through air support whenever the need arises.
 
First of all this Russian exercise is not the hint of any incursion in Afghanistan what I am debating is a future scenario where the situation could go worst and require a direct intervention by regional countries to safeguard their legitimate interests with coordinated "regional" approach. In Afghanistan America is an extra regional power

exactly because of this reason its more dangerous, so as we have witness in Syria America and Russia sometime exchange information for their operations in areas near to each other control/influence, so the point is they are avoiding the direct confrontation with each other the same model of communicative can be used to avoid the direct confrontation with US forces which are already in limited numbers.

exactly Syria had a working central government and somewhat functional defence forces which Afghanistan lack so in a scenario of non-existent government rather to let Afghanistan go in the hands of war and drug lords same as decade of 90s where we witness an incident hijacking of school bus with number of school going children by Afghan terrorist backed by one of the faction of Northern Alliance (I think by Abdul Rasheed Dostum group, if my memory serve me right) and in recent past we have witness APS incident so to avoid any such incident by any group either TTP or ISIS or by any other terrorist group decisive action by regional block will be requried.

not just by Pakistan or China but a Collation of all the countries Sharing Border with Afghanistan Russia and China can provide diplomatic and material support.

Russia went into Syria upon the request of Syrian president Assad. Then it played an active military role using its Armed Forces to help Assad gain territory which was lost to an array of factions operating inside Syria. I am not aware what demands Russia could have put in front of Assad for this purpose and Assad complied. If Russia is to be requested by Pakistan to play a part(military and non-military) in Afghanistan , there are a few factors to me considered immediately;
1. Russian demands. 2. USA's on going deals with Pakistan over Afghanistan supply route etc . 3. Chinese reaction . 4. Indian influence in Afghanistan and reaction regarding Russian intervention.
I am going to discuss one factor from above, Russia is aligned with Northern Alliance. So is USA, India and Iran. This is going to be the first hitch. Northern Alliance is an enemy of Pakistan and poised towards the North-West mountain region of Pakistan, Chitral region. Hopefully, T-129 can operate in these heights. One of the major reasons of planning to put a new army division in Swat area is to deter NA. Even if Russia doesn't get involved militarily, its diplomatic inclination in past towards NA could pose a problem with Pakistan. Soviet Union has a past history with Syria, so Russia had no problem choosing sides in mideast (Syria).

China's concern is CPEC, the belt runs in the area of KPK and Baluchistan. Had China not felt that Pakistan can secure it borders (against IS/AQ/Talibs/TTP) and internal threat of terrorism, China would have demanded and pressurized Pakistan to allow Chinese troops in KPK and Baluchistan to safe guard Chinese interests, CPEC is not a small investment. Had China felt a threat from USA in Afghanistan, it could have pressurized Pakistan to shut down ISAF support long ago. Although the regional instability and threat from Afghanistan is evident to China also, yet it doesn't actively get involved militarily or diplomatically inside Afghanistan.

In Syria, USA/NATO had to forcibly intervene and show presence while using proxy factions. Its different in Afghanistan, here the USA and NATO have made a foot print since 2001, its 18 years now. It's difficult to bring a third super power (Russia/China) into the equation, unless Pakistan itself feels a threat to its existence like Assad felt in Syria. So far Pakistan doesn't feel that threat. Militarily and economically, Pakistan is stronger than Syria in all aspects. Just like Russia helped Syrian Government in Syria, the ISAF is helping Afghan Government in Syria. ISAF will not let Afghanistan go into the hands of war lords, till USA is sitting in Afghanistan and backing the Afghan Government and Military. USA exited Iraq a few years back (Saddam is dead), it could have done the same with Afghanistan(OBL dead), but USA doesn't plan on leaving Afghanistan. We know the reasons. Its a token force, not even enough to conduct offensives and capture strongholds inside Afghanistan. Even if the warlords are given assistance by ISAF and ANA, the Talibs are keeping them at bay. The control of regions inside Afghanistan is contested time and again, the talibs don't give up easily. ISAF wants ANA to functional and effective, but ANA is not up to the standards. After the lost cause of containing Talibs, now the ANA is directed towards shelling and firing on Pakistani troops building the wall, securing the border. Purely diplomatically, SCO is one of the ways to bring a consensus on Afghanistan.

Putting Pakistani troops on ground for continuous operations inside Afghanistan is a big topic.
 
Russia went into Syria upon the request of Syrian president Assad.
1- In past Soviet Union came to Afghanistan on the request of Afghan Government of that time, Pakistan and USA and other allied forces who intervened uninvited during that time
2- Russia tookeover Crimea after the fall of pro Russian Government of Ukraine
3- Iran intervene in Iraq and Syria at the request of these two governments
4- Turkey started its operation in Syria without any request by Syrian government to safeguard their territorial integrity and national interest
5- USA, Germany, UK all are in Syria uninvited

So the point is in current time request or no request countries are taking decisions to safeguard their Sovereignty and Interest

So the question of more importance should be: Is it in our interest to extend our Anti-terror operations in regions controlled by ISIS near to our boarder for limited time period ....??

Then it played an active military role using its Armed Forces to help Assad gain territory which was lost to an array of factions operating inside Syria. I am not aware what demands Russia could have put in front of Assad for this purpose and Assad complied.
Before any active military role we would be required to create a certain POLITICAL environment inside Afghanistan and in the region, as far as demands by Russia or by regional country is concerns we would not in position to fulfil any demand beyond the scope of regional cooperation.

Our sole purpose should be to dislodge the ISIS and its associated groups from regions of Pak-Afghanistan boarder and beyond therefore cooperation from countries who are sharing boarder with Afghanistan would be required.

If Russia is to be requested by Pakistan to play a part(military and non-military) in Afghanistan , there are a few factors to me considered immediately;
Russia and Iran has already fought against ISIS in Syria and danger of spill over of ISIS to Central Asian region should be compelling enough for Russia to act rather wait for the request by some other country ISIS should be the common enemy to all of the countries

So rather a request by any particular country it SHOULD BE A COMMON OBJECTIVE for all countries sharing boarder with Afghanistan

1. Russian demands. 2. USA's on going deals with Pakistan over Afghanistan supply route etc . 3. Chinese reaction . 4. Indian influence in Afghanistan and reaction regarding Russian intervention.
1- I have already commented about point one
2- Should continue as long as possible for us to sustain as per the requirements of regional environment, the idea is to raise the importance of regional cooperation and stability than mutual understanding in isolation of the region
3- As long as it serve the economic interest of China, Chinese support will be there
4- For us its a problem which need to be worked and resolved, but our action of regional cooperation could put Indian in a situation where it will have to take clear position
I am going to discuss one factor from above, Russia is aligned with Northern Alliance.
Every asset have its useful life, now Taliban are gaining areas in Northern Afghanistan as well which I find difficult to understand how is possible without and support infrastructure.

one more thing most of NA is the beneficiary of current political setup of Afghanistan which is heavily supported by USA so its difficult to think that Russian during this long period of 18 years has not hedged the risk
So is USA, India and Iran.

This is going to be the first hitch. Northern Alliance is an enemy of Pakistan and poised towards the North-West mountain region of Pakistan, Chitral region.
1- Iran has establish links with Taliban, Mullah Mansoor family is still in Iran.
2- Secondly 18 consecutive years in government must have diminsh the skill of fighting of Northern alliance otherwise they could have eliminated Taliban with the help of USA from Afghanistan
3- In any such situation Indian would be required to chose the side and I am sure India will chose USA
Hopefully, T-129 can operate in these heights. One of the major reasons of planning to put a new army division in Swat area is to deter NA. Even if Russia doesn't get involved militarily, its diplomatic inclination in past towards NA could pose a problem with Pakistan. Soviet Union has a past history with Syria, so Russia had no problem choosing sides in mideast (Syria).
agreed therefore engaging Russia is necessary

China's concern is CPEC, the belt runs in the area of KPK and Baluchistan. Had China not felt that Pakistan can secure it borders (against IS/AQ/Talibs/TTP) and internal threat of terrorism, China would have demanded and pressurized Pakistan to allow Chinese troops in KPK and Baluchistan to safe guard Chinese interests, CPEC is not a small investment. Had China felt a threat from USA in Afghanistan, it could have pressurized Pakistan to shut down ISAF support long ago. Although the regional instability and threat from Afghanistan is evident to China also, yet it doesn't actively get involved militarily or diplomatically inside Afghanistan.
it not about the ability of Pakistan to defend the CPEC, its about the elimination of the perpetual risk continuously dangering business and social environment in Pakistan, without eliminating the risk from the region Pakistan would not gain any economical benefit from CPEC Chinese convey can come and go we could provide security to them but what about the economic activities in the form of investment from Chinese business community which is suppose to follow after the completion of current projects ....??

We can not bear full fruits of CPEC by just acting as SECURITY GUARD. We are required to create secure economic environment in Pakistan and in the region.
In Syria, USA/NATO had to forcibly intervene and show presence while using proxy factions. Its different in Afghanistan, here the USA and NATO have made a foot print since 2001, its 18 years now.
therefore at first we (like Iran, Russia) are required to create political class willing to work with regional block independent from militancy of Afghanistan, like Hekmatyar who lived in Iran during exile we also have relations with him and his group has laid down arms a per agreement with Afghan government
It's difficult to bring a third super power (Russia/China) into the equation, unless Pakistan itself feels a threat to its existence like Assad felt in Syria. So far Pakistan doesn't feel that threat.
Both Russia and China are already in Afghanistan with there define policies which are different from the past no one is confronting USA but keeping the situation in check
Militarily and economically, Pakistan is stronger than Syria in all aspects. Just like Russia helped Syrian Government in Syria, the ISAF is helping Afghan Government in Syria.
ISAF mission in Afghanistan has ended now its USA forces and some other countries under resolute support mission but the forces under this structure is not enough to resolve the current and potential danger in Afghanistan in the form of ISIS
ISAF will not let Afghanistan go into the hands of war lords,
it is already in the hands of warlords just read what Abdul Rasheed Dosttam has done with one of the governor of a province of Afghanistan
till USA is sitting in Afghanistan and backing the Afghan Government and Military.
I think next year Presidential election of Afghanistan will be held and as per the current situation of Afghanistan it is difficult to assume that election wold play any constructive role
in the future of Afghanistan.

USA exited Iraq a few years back (Saddam is dead), it could have done the same with Afghanistan(OBL dead), but USA doesn't plan on leaving Afghanistan. We know the reasons. Its a token force, not even enough to conduct offensives and capture strongholds inside Afghanistan.
because of low number of US forces and frail status of Afghan forces a vacuum in Afghanistan exist which ISIS and other elements are filling and mounting danger to regional countries security situation.
Even if the warlords are given assistance by ISAF and ANA, the Talibs are keeping them at bay. The control of regions inside Afghanistan is contested time and again, the talibs don't give up easily. ISAF wants ANA to functional and effective, but ANA is not up to the standards. After the lost cause of containing Talibs, now the ANA is directed towards shelling and firing on Pakistani troops building the wall, securing the border. Purely diplomatically, SCO is one of the ways to bring a consensus on Afghanistan.
In a most simplest way and to summarise the post think it in this way
Afghanistan itself is a problem which required to be fixed rather than fixing issues of Afghanistan
Putting Pakistani troops on ground for continuous operations inside Afghanistan is a big topic.
not just Pakistani troops but regional element of all the countries sharing boarder with Afghanistan supported by Russia and China
 
Russians take no shit when it comes to dealing with the terrorist scum.I bet terrorists will never be able to use violence tactics to blackmail or intimidate russia because russians get ten time more violent as history is evident.
Not really true. Putin is scared shitless of the Chechens.
 
Not really true. Putin is scared shitless of the Chechens.
Currently, Putin is scared of the chaos Chechen rebels can cause but tbh, I dont think Chechens today can make serious long term chaos for Russian military forces. Russia has upgraded everything, what have Chechen rebels improved on?2nd of all Kadyrov will take on the chechen rebels 1st before Putin even makes a move.
 
no he is actually controlling them like a boss
He cannot fight the Chechens because Russians are still scarred by the terrorist attacks the Chechens can commit if Putin ever tries to interfere in how they run their region. To think he is "controlling" them is utter delusion.

He leaves them to control the region and do whatever they want and they agree to play nice with the Federal Government. That is from a position of weakness by Putin, not a position of strength.
 
He cannot fight the Chechens because Russians are still scarred by the terrorist attacks the Chechens can commit if Putin ever tries to interfere in how they run their region. To think he is "controlling" them is utter delusion.

He leaves them to control the region and do whatever they want and they agree to play nice with the Federal Government. That is from a position of weakness by Putin, not a position of strength.
yea but its not nice to compare whole Chechnya with terrorism.There are few Chechen terrorist groups who are afraid of Putin and the whole Chechnya willfully living under the russian umbrella.They can run their province just like any other russian province but there is no way a terror group or anti state elements inside Chechnya are allowed by the russians.
 
yea but its not nice to compare whole Chechnya with terrorism.There are few Chechen terrorist groups who are afraid of Putin and the whole Chechnya willfully living under the russian umbrella.They can run their province just like any other russian province but there is no way a terror group or anti state elements inside Chechnya are allowed by the russians.
I have many Russian friends and they all agree that Putin can do nothing about Kadyrov and is too scared to try, they are 'under the Russian umbrella' in name only.
 

Back
Top Bottom