Impact of current IAF
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Saying that China doesn't have a base that is near India and the advanced fighters, i.e. Su-30MK, MK2, J-11, are not there during the wartime will be more than just ridiculous, tell me how long it will take once India declares war on Pakistan when China will start moving its aircrafts to the closest bases? Not even a day, and the next thing you know is all the advanced fighters of IAF are now close to Chinese border for any surprise attack.
This rids of all of threat that PAF was getting now which included quality and quantity, but we will try to not to depend on the Chinese, but tell me didn't samething happened in the past wars? Exactly. Also saying that Lahasa is the only base which is close to India is a stupid statement. Go to google earth and do some search and tell me how many secret bases does PAF have, and forget about China!
Regards,
Ahsan F.
This rids of all of threat that PAF was getting now which included quality and quantity, but we will try to not to depend on the Chinese, but tell me didn't samething happened in the past wars? Exactly. Also saying that Lahasa is the only base which is close to India is a stupid statement. Go to google earth and do some search and tell me how many secret bases does PAF have, and forget about China!
Regards,
Ahsan F.
Dear Webby,
Do you really thinks that in case of an all out WAR any third country would interfere? I have serious doubts over this, everyone knows in all these types of situations lots of diplomacy goes on and we have seen recently in 2002 when Indo-Pak Armies on high alert and role played by US, Russia, China, Japan, and even by GE, Microsoft and Intel.
As trade between Indo-China is increasing rapidly aspected to cross $ 200 billion in 2010 currently at the level of 67 billion (commodaties and services both included). Indian is also going to sign a free trade pact with china soon, may be you would see exactly opposite.
Abhi
Do you really thinks that in case of an all out WAR any third country would interfere? I have serious doubts over this, everyone knows in all these types of situations lots of diplomacy goes on and we have seen recently in 2002 when Indo-Pak Armies on high alert and role played by US, Russia, China, Japan, and even by GE, Microsoft and Intel.
As trade between Indo-China is increasing rapidly aspected to cross $ 200 billion in 2010 currently at the level of 67 billion (commodaties and services both included). Indian is also going to sign a free trade pact with china soon, may be you would see exactly opposite.
Abhi
Well abhi,
I personally dont like the sound of it too. The relations of China and India are seem to be getting better (economically) though at the seem time there is a large build on the both sides, for Chinese build up it can be understandable as it is getting a threat from U.S and is aiming to be a super power, on the other side we have India. Although good economically, but poorty is an issue, and still it is going for a military build up even though it is not getting any threat from anybody except Pakistan being main case.
I personally dont trust the third country to support Pakistan in a war, it will mostly depend on the situation and how the war occurs, if the situation is like, i am right on both sides, then the war will be most likely between the two countries, dependent on the third country if it is in favors of the decision.
I personally dont like the sound of it too. The relations of China and India are seem to be getting better (economically) though at the seem time there is a large build on the both sides, for Chinese build up it can be understandable as it is getting a threat from U.S and is aiming to be a super power, on the other side we have India. Although good economically, but poorty is an issue, and still it is going for a military build up even though it is not getting any threat from anybody except Pakistan being main case.
I personally dont trust the third country to support Pakistan in a war, it will mostly depend on the situation and how the war occurs, if the situation is like, i am right on both sides, then the war will be most likely between the two countries, dependent on the third country if it is in favors of the decision.
melb4aust
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First thing there are very less chances of war between Pakistan and India. Both countries have nuclear weapons, so there's no way they r gonna have any fight, unless the politicians or leaders go wild, lose their minds and go mad due to mental sickness.
However if some thing happens then, India would have an air superiority as well as naval. On ground level Pakistan would give India a tough time. But again these days airpower plays the whole game. Once the Pakistan sees that the situation is getting out of their hand, they are most likely gonna go for their major, biggest and the last triumph card which is "ATOMIC BOMB".
Pakistan may get some help from China or from Arab countries, but its gonna be totally unofficial and hidden. But still as webmaster said will depend on the situation.
What i think war is'nt the big issue Paskiatn facing these days. Its the economy what pakistan would more likely to improve later. And its a biggest threat Pakistan had in past, have now and gonna have for the next couple of decades. Iraq is the biggest example, even having too much oil resources, they were the biggest victims of the poor economy. As Pakistan largely depends on US, so Pakistan can be the next victim and the leaders have to think about that, at least now.
However if some thing happens then, India would have an air superiority as well as naval. On ground level Pakistan would give India a tough time. But again these days airpower plays the whole game. Once the Pakistan sees that the situation is getting out of their hand, they are most likely gonna go for their major, biggest and the last triumph card which is "ATOMIC BOMB".
Pakistan may get some help from China or from Arab countries, but its gonna be totally unofficial and hidden. But still as webmaster said will depend on the situation.
What i think war is'nt the big issue Paskiatn facing these days. Its the economy what pakistan would more likely to improve later. And its a biggest threat Pakistan had in past, have now and gonna have for the next couple of decades. Iraq is the biggest example, even having too much oil resources, they were the biggest victims of the poor economy. As Pakistan largely depends on US, so Pakistan can be the next victim and the leaders have to think about that, at least now.
melb,
The future of Pakistan and India can be more like of a what was of United States and the Soviets.
I hope the relations between both countries remain same or continue to improve, otherwise its not good for any of the sides. It will make India to move its forces to the border, think about the expenses, while Pakistan at the same time will be put on alert.
The main thing then would be reconnaince and spying by both countries, its possible that Pakistan will have to use planes like U-2 and others but as of now it is very unrealistic since Su-30MKI has a very good range not to forget the SAM capability which India has nowadays.
The future of Pakistan and India can be more like of a what was of United States and the Soviets.
I hope the relations between both countries remain same or continue to improve, otherwise its not good for any of the sides. It will make India to move its forces to the border, think about the expenses, while Pakistan at the same time will be put on alert.
The main thing then would be reconnaince and spying by both countries, its possible that Pakistan will have to use planes like U-2 and others but as of now it is very unrealistic since Su-30MKI has a very good range not to forget the SAM capability which India has nowadays.
melb4aust
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I terms of expenses that can occur if both countries put their arm forces on alert at the border im with you. Becuase it will raise the same issue, "ECONOMY".
The capability of SU-30MKI or SAM sites is still questionable as it has been like more than 30 years both countries haven't had an air combat or Pakistan has'nt evaded the control line with its aircrafts.
Spying is not an issue here. both countries have different spy organisations which are doing pretty well at this stage.
Only time will tell us about the future.
The capability of SU-30MKI or SAM sites is still questionable as it has been like more than 30 years both countries haven't had an air combat or Pakistan has'nt evaded the control line with its aircrafts.
Spying is not an issue here. both countries have different spy organisations which are doing pretty well at this stage.
Only time will tell us about the future.
Like webby said much will depend on the situation and who initiated the conflict.
Imho, Pakistan should not count for any help from third country, even from China. However, its been suggested in Pentagon that Pakistan has all time access to Chinese satelites intelligence which might come handy during a full scale war.
But I'm happy to see that both Indian and Pakistani government have come to realise that a war is no longer an option as it will kick us both back in time.
India's first rival is no longer Pakistan but its China, and India needs to work hard to close the gap in both econimic and military build up in China, she can simply not afford to have another expensive full scale conflict with Pakistan.
China on the other hand hasn't fought a war for decades, they want friendly ties and most certainly greater trade with India.
So instead of wondering who'll support us in our future conflict with India, we should be focusing who will mediate and prevent us from engaging India militarily.
After all, both nations are on the rise and there's been a lot on CBM's lately.
Lets put wartalk behind us and focus how both countries can benefit from eachother in each and every field.
Just my two cents.....
Imho, Pakistan should not count for any help from third country, even from China. However, its been suggested in Pentagon that Pakistan has all time access to Chinese satelites intelligence which might come handy during a full scale war.
But I'm happy to see that both Indian and Pakistani government have come to realise that a war is no longer an option as it will kick us both back in time.
India's first rival is no longer Pakistan but its China, and India needs to work hard to close the gap in both econimic and military build up in China, she can simply not afford to have another expensive full scale conflict with Pakistan.
China on the other hand hasn't fought a war for decades, they want friendly ties and most certainly greater trade with India.
So instead of wondering who'll support us in our future conflict with India, we should be focusing who will mediate and prevent us from engaging India militarily.
After all, both nations are on the rise and there's been a lot on CBM's lately.
Lets put wartalk behind us and focus how both countries can benefit from eachother in each and every field.
Just my two cents.....
melb4aust
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To Cope china India needs another 20-25 years as well as who knows by that time at which stage china would be. Its not easy......
Yes im with you Pakistan shouldnt be relying on any other nations, but in the time of war it is sure that India will have a upper hand on world support thing.
Im not sure India is doing too much effort to enhance its military potential, what Pakistan is doing?
Is it because we havnt got enough financial resources or because of sactions imposed on us or because the politician are after Pakistan's money again?
Yes im with you Pakistan shouldnt be relying on any other nations, but in the time of war it is sure that India will have a upper hand on world support thing.
Im not sure India is doing too much effort to enhance its military potential, what Pakistan is doing?
Is it because we havnt got enough financial resources or because of sactions imposed on us or because the politician are after Pakistan's money again?
Indian defence budget stands at $20billion against $4 billion of Pakistan and they are on shopping spree.
India's lucky to have Russian alliance so she kept modernising even after the santions were imposed in 1998.
Today, India is largest arms buyer on the international market and she's got the ambition to become a super power.
US is eyeing on India to couter China which itself is on the rise aswell and poses threat to the Americans. So expect India to purchase much more in near future.
Both!
Our economy, $110 billion in real terms, is still to small to go for big tag products.
The problem is that we're in urgent need of modernisation first, no funds available for expansion.
But give us another five years, the induction of JF-17 and probably J-10C tigether with F-16's will give us a boost
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In simple terms, the impact of IAF purchases on PAF is that fighter jets and airdefence systems need to be modernized at an alarming rate.
F-16s should be acquired as soon as possible. It is understandable that it was put on hold due to the earthquake but now its time to put it behind us and move on.
Jf-17 should be brought in to service, once again, at the earliest. Currently, the 5th prototype should get tested by mid-2006 for Weapons and Avionics package integration.
A new frontline-fighter jet needs to be looked at with utmost seriousness. Rafael and Eurofighter, too expensive. The only two contenders IMHO, are J-10 and Gripen. I would prefer Gripen over J-10 anyday as the situation stands at the moment. It is a very potent point-defence fighter aircraft which would fit in to PAF's overall strategy quite well and add to that the benefit of having Erieyes. The datalinking would be made easier between the Gripens and itself warranting much more cohesive information and real time intel.
SAMs; once again need to be modernized. FT-2000 and FT-2000A should be acquired at the earliest to make sure that we have a lethal answer to airspace violations or aggression by the IAF.
F-16s should be acquired as soon as possible. It is understandable that it was put on hold due to the earthquake but now its time to put it behind us and move on.
Jf-17 should be brought in to service, once again, at the earliest. Currently, the 5th prototype should get tested by mid-2006 for Weapons and Avionics package integration.
A new frontline-fighter jet needs to be looked at with utmost seriousness. Rafael and Eurofighter, too expensive. The only two contenders IMHO, are J-10 and Gripen. I would prefer Gripen over J-10 anyday as the situation stands at the moment. It is a very potent point-defence fighter aircraft which would fit in to PAF's overall strategy quite well and add to that the benefit of having Erieyes. The datalinking would be made easier between the Gripens and itself warranting much more cohesive information and real time intel.
SAMs; once again need to be modernized. FT-2000 and FT-2000A should be acquired at the earliest to make sure that we have a lethal answer to airspace violations or aggression by the IAF.
Bull
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well pakistan getting all those rafales and grippen is long way off.
In reality PAF has got orders running for 72 F16 ( bock ?) and some 200 JF 17s.
And IAF has gotorders running for 200 MKI,66 AJT, and series production of jaguars ( 19 dual seaters, and 37 single seaters) and 3 phalcon AWACS from israel. and 6 more air refuellers.
grippens and rafaels and awacs for PAF and MRCA for IAF are still in paper only.
keeping this in mind i dont see how PAF can gain an advanatage over IAF??
In reality PAF has got orders running for 72 F16 ( bock ?) and some 200 JF 17s.
And IAF has gotorders running for 200 MKI,66 AJT, and series production of jaguars ( 19 dual seaters, and 37 single seaters) and 3 phalcon AWACS from israel. and 6 more air refuellers.
grippens and rafaels and awacs for PAF and MRCA for IAF are still in paper only.
keeping this in mind i dont see how PAF can gain an advanatage over IAF??
Tariq Iqbal
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Not now as far as i can see, and i dont see any planning to get the PAF to get an advantage over IAF, but then again its not all about inventory. If a situation occurs and PAF has to defend its air space, i am sure it will be able to do it. Look at this way, if IAF fighter comes into our territory we have the full advantage through our air defence system which will jam or minimize the time for IAF fighters to launch missile first, in this case PAFs F-16 Block 50 will be able to shoot down or deter with any fighter in the Indian inventory, let it be Su-30 or Mig-21 Bison.
Bull
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over there also IAF has an advantage as it will get real time data on PAF planes,radars thru AWACS,satelites or probably UAVs.
IAFs role would be support the ground mission,thru air to ground attacks and giving them protection thru air superiority fighters.Plus PAF culd be stretched to south over karachi and gwadar which will considerably reduce their defensive capability.
Sid
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Gaining advantage over the IAF has never been PAF's main objective or atleast that's what the official line has been. Its all about 'minimum deterrance' which means that you have such a force that the enemy thinks twice and thinks hard before attacking because he knows you have the capability to hit back so hard that it will amount to incomprehensible damage and losses for its own forces.
In this way, the opposing side shows restraint and war is averted in most cases. Like it happened in 2002 due to our nuclear deterrent (though that wasn't the only factor stopping the Indians from an all out war).
PAF can surely maintain that deterrance level once it starts receiving Jf-17s and the 76 F-16s (Block 52) while negotiating further for a frontline combat AC. By atleast 2015 all the forces should have what they need but so far most of the work done has been on paper and practicality needs to be applied with hastened efforts.
In this way, the opposing side shows restraint and war is averted in most cases. Like it happened in 2002 due to our nuclear deterrent (though that wasn't the only factor stopping the Indians from an all out war).
PAF can surely maintain that deterrance level once it starts receiving Jf-17s and the 76 F-16s (Block 52) while negotiating further for a frontline combat AC. By atleast 2015 all the forces should have what they need but so far most of the work done has been on paper and practicality needs to be applied with hastened efforts.
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