IMF demanded immediate privatization two power plants and a steel mill, Sources

[mulj]

Energy production should be under state ownership at least backbone of it.
Steel mill on the other hand is stupidity to be operated by state.

 

[karmaa]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1622509252106416128

better solution .

 

[ziaulislam]

What's with this comments?

Did Fauji Cement prevent you from starting a software house?

Did Shaheen Airport Services prevent you from creating a Google/Facebook Ads Media Agency?

Or was it Navy Housing Scheme that prevented you from creating a textile mill?

Yes it did..
Anyone knowing basics of economy will tell you that

 

[FuturePAF]

Nice suggestion, I think this would be very beneficial

Also, a guaranteed decently sized apartment (not house) in a max 5 story building for each veteran during their career, could be the basis for building out apartments in each city and fixing our housing stock.

In this way, everyone gets job training and a home, and the veterans won’t need guaranteed jobs in potentially uncompetitive companies. Similar to how China broke the “Iron rice bowl” during their modernization process.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Yes to all three.

Yes it did..

So my extended family who are self-starters are some bada$$es fighting the power of the Establishment. TIL.

 

[lightning F57]

Military running large privatised enterprises is just morally wrong. Military is there to serve the people and defend the borders what profit is made should go to the people. This is a massive conflicts of interest, they will no doubt have international customers, suppliers ( papa jones anyone) and that can also cloud their judgement when it comes to foreign policy matters.

It is commended that the military runs and operates better than any other body in Pak, but one can not create a state within a state that leads to discrimination and eventually conflict.

 

[ziaulislam]

So my extended family who are self-starters are some bada$$es fighting the power of the Establishment. TIL.

Nope they are joining it by bribing their way up and not paying any taxation

No business pay taxes on Pakistan just because military inc says so .hence any effort for track and trace s always thrawted with army interference
People pay sales tax that goes into pocket of traders and companies operated by military

 

[Chute]

So my extended family who are self-starters are some bada$$es fighting the power of the Establishment. TIL.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if they managed/manage to fly under the radar of interest, what they're doing is of ultimately next to no impact on Pakistan's predicament.

It is a predicament in the larger subcontinent (I've hit the ceiling lot of times on this w.r.t BD but thats another story for some other day), but Pakistan's case is especially intense and entrenched.

There is simply very little actual law and order and genuine public trust to create independent enterprise from powerful rent seekers who rule the roost and impose the worst unadulterated excess of a Hobbesian set up that serves them.

We can simply look at Pakistan's market cap, venture capital, export trends, commerce, investment and capital creation for the last 20 years or however long you want to to realise there is an absolute smothering of any independent enterprise once it challenges any kind of scale in the status quo monopolists. There is no competition and innovation past what is let to swirl at the non-descript dregs.

You really should watch Uzair Nawaz video I posted recently in the Pakistan economy thread to get idea of the level of corruption baked in all along the ladder that leads to mass subsidies going to the powerful+rich at the cost of those below the ladder altogether.

@VCheng and others can tell me if I am wrong on any of this.

 

[VCheng]

@VCheng and others can tell me if I am wrong on any of this.

All I can say here is that fighting such claims is pointless. Let the claim the somehow a few badass mavericks are doing just fine fighting the establishment go unchallenged in the interests of mental peace and calm. It will not change anything to do with reality in Pakistan.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Nope they are joining it by bribing their way up and not paying any taxation

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if they managed/manage to fly under the radar of interest, what they're doing is of ultimately next to no impact on Pakistan's predicament.

All I can say here is that fighting such claims is pointless.

My Nana didnt raise his daughters to be like that. Nor did his daughters raise their children to be the epitome of destruction.

It took 30 years for the feudals to feel threatened by the new rising industrialist crowd before they decided to nationalize the factories of entrepreneurs that made Pakistan the darling of the developing world.

Flying under the radar is fine when it more than covers the $100,000/person buy-in of citizenships in the Caribbean. Entrepreneurship isn't left behind in Pakistan. Plenty of Mango plantations to buy in Nicaragua for tax free export to the US.

 

[VCheng]

My Nana didnt raise his daughters to be like that. Nor did his daughters raise their children to be the epitome of destruction.

It took 30 years for the feudals to feel threatened by the new rising industrialist crowd before they decided to nationalize the factories of entrepreneurs that made Pakistan the darling of the developing world.

Flying under the radar is fine when it more than covers the $100,000/person buy-in of citizenships in the Caribbean. Entrepreneurship isn't left behind in Pakistan. Plenty of Mango plantations to buy in Nicaragua for tax free export to the US.

As I said, I see no point in contesting any of what you say here. That is great for you and your family, MashaAllah.

 

[Chute]

My Nana didnt raise his daughters to be like that. Nor did his daughters raise their children to be the epitome of destruction.

It took 30 years for the feudals to feel threatened by the new rising industrialist crowd before they decided to nationalize the factories of entrepreneurs that made Pakistan the darling of the developing world.

Flying under the radar is fine when it more than covers the $100,000/person buy-in of citizenships in the Caribbean. Entrepreneurship isn't left behind in Pakistan. Plenty of Mango plantations to buy in Nicaragua for tax free export to the US.

I'm not saying entrepreneurship isn't there in Pakistan (in case you got the wrong idea) just like its there at the collective % that exists in the homo sapiens species as a whole.

The issue is the system to let it flourish and actually scale into something. That needs broad scale application of rule of law (contract enforcement especially when you hit a critical size) so public trust is grown and established in the long term...and gets its own self sustaining force independent of (X-standards and selectivity) political power shenanigans. i.e an environment with as little coercion and corruption as possible.

I can fill this thread with relatively anecdotal stories/experiences I have gathered from decades long interaction with just Pakistanis ( a good number I count as close friends too)....but it would not serve much purpose in the end as it would not counter the larger conclusion.

There is a long sustained convo (from my own archive I have kept w.r.t this forum over the years) that I stumbled on "newb3e" profile page w.r.t fight with "DHA" he took on for many years...he seemed to be a farmer dealing with some kind of encroachment coercion with the powers that be...and now he has been banned for whatever reason from the forum (so now that interesting profile convo also vanished with his account).

His is a larger thing I have come across with many Pakistanis (however imperfect they are on whatever other sensitive topic) trying to get somewhere bigger with their entrepreneurship....and hitting a wall quickly if they dont play ball with folks on other side of wall.

Two things pertaining to this stood out in what Uzair Nawaz interview contained for me (that brutally simplified some very large levers as they relate to decision making in the system that exists....where a few have extraordinary power over the masses in decision making and their consequences)

A) Big foreign loans (ala CPEC) need to be paid in foreign currency....so if there is no direct generation of forex (from the infra) the transmissive effect (to creating exports to earn this forex) has to be as good as possible otherwise you just get saddled with foreign debt you cant repay.

B) Actual numbers on subsidies (on certain asset categories) that benefit the already well-off....giving massive incentive to sustain rent-seeking rather than actual investment for new production (by basic structured capital investment)....and these subsidies being far higher than the ones that benefit the poor consumption wise (that is given in token way to later use selectively in "woe is me" narrative with IMF or other forex loan providers)

A third C point would be what many already know w.r.t inadequate social investment in basic human development stuff...there is no need to go into that here, but A and B really pile upon that on top.

I am posting the interview here again for reference:

I am unsure who still actively posts on this forum in qualitative way regarding socioeconomics of Pakistan's predicament (i.e as it relates to its political power setup)....maybe folks can tag them and we can hash and flesh out any more meaningful points for discussion.

@SQ8 and @VCheng are only two bedrocks I see (whom I have followed at some length) around here lately.

 

[delta2]

Completely privatize everything. This seems like the only solution to the deeply rooted corruption issue in Pakistan.

We are an absolutely greedy and money hungry people. A "publicly owned" entity gives too many layers of protection to crooks. Privatize it all and let the greed of personal wealth be used as a positive force.

Privatize everything. Let the corrupt, munafiq, and jahil awam and elite be at the absolute mercy of a business transaction.

 

[VCheng]

I am unsure who still actively posts on this forum in qualitative way regarding socioeconomics of Pakistan's predicament (i.e as it relates to its political power setup)....maybe folks can tag them and we can hash and flesh out any more meaningful points for discussion.

@SQ8 and @VCheng are only two bedrocks I see (whom I have followed at some length) around here lately.

There is no "predicament" in Pakistan over its socioeconomic model, let us be clear.

Its power setup achieves exactly what it needs to do, to deliver the results that it wants, perversely unfathomable as it may seem to outside observers. And there are many intentionally dishonest propagandists with anecdotal "evidence" as above, that never provide the true background connections of, and hidden benefits to, the surprisingly successful "entrepreneurs", or merely selective data pickers like the inimitable Brofessor Riaz Haq, and the many military (ex? or related) personnel, who do so merely to push forward a similarly dishonest obfuscating agenda.

That is about the best summary I can give on this topic, for now.

 

[Chute]

There is no "predicament" in Pakistan over its socioeconomic model, let us be clear.

Its power setup achieves exactly what it needs to do, to deliver the results that it wants, perversely unfathomable as it may seem to outside observers. And there are many intentionally dishonest propagandists with anecdotal "evidence" as above, that never provide the true background connections of, and hidden benefits to, the surprisingly successful "entrepreneurs", or merely selective data pickers like the inimitable Brofessor Riaz Haq, and the many military (ex? or related) personnel, who do so merely to push forward a similarly dishonest obfuscating agenda.

That is about the best summary I can give on this topic, for now.

Well I keep those kind of "authors" here or elsewhere well outside of my qualitative list for a reason. My whole career relates to BS detection to begin with heh.

As for predicament, I meant it as it relates to the whole entity of Pakistan.

Whatever the windmill being tilted at by the rider.... I am concerned more about the emaciated horse (that is forced to carry him)....one that was saddled to this endeavour specifically because he had little or no choice in the matter....

I would very much say that there is a larger recognition there is a problem deep within Pakistan that most of its people sense (and lived, are living and feel like they are condemned to live a lifetime through).... in a way unlike those (very few in the end) that benefit or have convinced themselves of a benefit from this arrangement.