IDN TAKE: The Much Vilified Combat Readiness Of Arjun Main Battle Tank

[Jamwal's]

And what's with this T 90C.

India operates 300 + T 90S rest 600 ~ T 90M made at Avadi since 2009.

 

[Zarvan]

I thought so too, until I read a bit about it here, Arjun has lower Ground pressure than that of T90M, giving it better cross country performance as shown in the trials, also it's suspension makes it more accurate compared to the T90. Arjun beats the T90 comprehensively in almost all parameters with the user vying it to fail. The mismanagement to my knowledge stems from the same cartel that got us the utterly useless recovery vehicles pocketing millions.
Also Merkava is heavier than the Arjun. If IA was interested in the Merkava, it would have been here the within six months, What Arjun needs is a MoD that has a backbone and not blind as it has been in the past (check what was AK Antony's reaction to VK Singh's Tatra issue).
Tomorrow, Arjun gets scrapped, and IA will sign up for the Armata, and will induct it without trials, carriages, ammunition, concerns or criticism. Under Parrikar local product will get some more backing, but DRDO did not deliver either the suspension, FCS or the powerpack. It was exactly as dismal as the LCA, but the MK2 product with the German Pwerpack, suspension and Israeli FCS is exactly on the same roadmap as the LCA's fate.

ARJUN beats T-90 in all parameters !!!!! Sir do you even realize what you are accusing your Army of !! even if indirectly ?
@Sulman Badshah @DESERT FIGHTER @Dazzler @Tipu7 @

 

[GURU DUTT]

ARJUN beats T-90 in all parameters !!!!! Sir do you even realize what you are accusing your Army of !! even if indirectly ?
@Sulman Badshah @DESERT FIGHTER @Dazzler @Tipu7 @

mulla i hope this gives you a hint how things were made easy for T90 and difficult for arjun dellibartelly

 

[Agent_47]

ARJUN beats T-90 in all parameters. Sir do you even realize what you are accusing your Army of even if indirectly ?
@Sulman Badshah @DESERT FIGHTER @Dazzler @Tipu7 @

So, you don't read things you post ? But how do insistently find negative parts and make them bold ?

Why is it so hard to believe that we are accusing Army? They are buying thing with taxpayers money, we have the right to question them, I guess things are different in pakistan.

CAG report clearly points partiality on Arjun during trials.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

You know, it's pretty insane that the CAG report has been brushed under the carpet. It really shows what's been happening for decades. And shows only the tip of the iceberg of what's been happening. I am not a Arjun fanboy or anything, but it's really appalling. That report is enough for me to conclude people were eating good off of the T90 deal. It really wouldnt have matter what DRDO would've brought, light-medium tank whatever, same tactics would've been used.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

So, you don't read things you post ? But how do insistently find negative parts and make them bold ?

Why is it so hard to believe that we are accusing Army? They are buying thing with taxpayers money, we have the right to question them, I guess things are different in pakistan.

CAG report clearly points partiality on Arjun during trials.

mulla i hope this gives you a hint how things were made easy for T90 and difficult for arjun dellibartelly

For some on pdf, CAG reports are only reliable when the criticize the army not when the state Indigenous programs are better.

 

[zebra7]

So, you don't read things you post ? But how do insistently find negative parts and make them bold ?

Why is it so hard to believe that we are accusing Army? They are buying thing with taxpayers money, we have the right to question them, I guess things are different in pakistan.

CAG report clearly points partiality on Arjun during trials.

Do you really believe this person reads this, I don't think so. This has been posted to him several times.

@Zarvan Bhai pls take some time and read the post completely.

In case of war, why comparison of T90 or Arjun, when both can compliment each other in the same way the Soviet used their T-80/T-64Bs with T-72 during Cold War, aka Arjun will fire the first shot, and T-90 would do the encirclement and supports.

 

[Omega007]

The only real drawback in Arjun that still remains is the unavailability of a modern APFSDS round, once that's been addressed,Arjun will become the real terror of the deserts!!
PS- I wouldn't mind if our government could look into some Ukrainian goodies for armored vehicles, especially the Duplet ERA, heard some real crazy stuffs about it.

ARJUN beats T-90 in all parameters !!!!! Sir do you even realize what you are accusing your Army of !! even if indirectly ?
@Sulman Badshah @DESERT FIGHTER @Dazzler @Tipu7 @

We've been pretty clear about this long since as far as I can remember and there ain't no room for any uncertainty over this issue as far as we are concerned.

The Arjun is just another case of moving goalposts with unrealistic ambitions.

True but who is to blame for that??The army in general and the ones in the DGMF's office in particular.They are the ones who kept moving the goalposts every time the CVRDE came close to scoring, they moved the dam posts four fucking time within a time period of a freaking decade!!And people just keep blaming the DRDO (I'm not accusing you by the way).

To me the idea of a heavy tank in the subcontinent is a quagmire. Our terrain does not permit the sledgehammer rolls anymore and with both sides having anti-tank defences that would make the Maginot line look tame, the best thing that works is fast armour. The Arjun is neither, it is a tank well designed for the counter steamroller approach taken by the Germans against Soviet Russia. Even then, the Leo is a much more agile system; the Arjun plagued by mismanagement.

Well, the Arjun project was initiated as a hasty and desperate counter against supposed accusation of M1 Abrams by the Pakistani Army.But the moment you guys decided to go for the T 80UDs, the Army lost its interest right there.

Currently, the best solution for India lies not in the Arjun but looking to create a midway platform with the T-90 and the Arjun. Although, in my opinion that platform that really fits like a glove to the IBG concept is the Merkava. Being survivable, packing a punch and also able to carry a few troops into combat.

Not possible with a four man crew.If we are to adhere to your suggestions (rather good one imho), then we have to go for a tank with an autoloader, preferably the one mounted inside the turret bustle as in the Leclerc and not like the carousel ones onboard our T series.

 

[Omega007]

Tomorrow, Arjun gets scrapped, and IA will sign up for the Armata, and will induct it without trials, carriages, ammunition, concerns or criticism. Under Parrikar local product will get some more backing, but DRDO did not deliver either the suspension, FCS or the powerpack. It was exactly as dismal as the LCA, but the MK2 product with the German Pwerpack, suspension and Israeli FCS is exactly on the same roadmap as the LCA's fate.

The FCS is not from Israel.The earlier one on board the MkI was a customised version of Savan 15 from Sagem of France.This one,although having great on the move accuracy against moving targets, lacked automatic target tarcking and turret laying feature.On the other hand,the present one is from DRDO's stable, built by the Tata Power SED and comes with an auto tracking mode.
And as for suspension and powerpack, who in their right mind would initiate development of those for a measly 124 units??Look at the Turks and their Altay - Aselsan already had bagged a firm order of 500 tanks in 2 blocks with an option for 500 additional units in subsequent blocks even before the programme was past prototype building stage and yet they imported virtually all of its subsystems!!

 

[Tipu7]

Yara

Arjun is "ladla" tank.
It has its own league since its a heavy MBT with limited operational capabilities. As far as Desert and Plain is concerned, it's fine. But you cannot use such heavy tank in hilly, mountainous and marshy places.

Now issue is, when you boast up a home grown product too high at every place it become matter of pride. No matter how useless or how expensive it is you have to induct it. Because you have to support you home industry, because it's matter if questioning pride. Arjun case is same.

Compared to entire 2500+ Tank fleet of India, 122 Arjuns require "special love"
They have rifled gun, they have different caliber of main gun, hence different ammo, they have different training parameters,hence limit of crew, they have different strategic & non strategic mobility parameters hence bigger carriers and narrow window of ooeration and above all, they have different maintainance requirements......

This whole thing make Arjun a great toil on Indian tax money. And up coming Arjun Mk2 which "some lobbies" are trying to enforce on Indian Military will be even more heavy (70+Ton most heavy MBT in World)

So what is game here? Indian defense sector need it's projects alive, Indian fan boys want something to beat their chest and army gonna just "accept" it even if it keep doing push ups in repair shops .......

What make a tank GOOD tank is its supportive nature. It give you ease in mobility, fire power, protection which remaining economical. It should share similarities with rest of your tank fleet, it should be battle ready every time.
You don't need such tank which can win war games but in case of war it end up in repair shops ........

ARJUN beats T-90 in all parameters !!!!! Sir do you even realize what you are accusing your Army of !! even if indirectly ?
@Sulman Badshah @DESERT FIGHTER @Dazzler @Tipu7 @

Indian army accepted limited numbers of Mk1 on pressure, they will not repeat same mistake twice in case of Mk2.
They want T90MS & T14 Armata ......

 

[hussain0216]

Indias government should do the same thing they did with the LCA

Force it down the armies throat,

Tell the army to swollow it or else, it dosent matter if the army thinks its rubbish, call them corrupt lovers of foreign maal and demand they buy the Arjun

 

[zebra7]

Arjun is "ladla" tank.
It has its own league since its a heavy MBT with limited operational capabilities. As far as Desert and Plain is concerned, it's fine. But you cannot use such heavy tank in hilly, mountainous and marshy places.

So which light tank you can use in hilly and mountainous area.

Now issue is, when you boast up a home grown product too high at every place it become matter of pride. No matter how useless or how expensive it is you have to induct it. Because you have to support you home industry, because it's matter if questioning pride. Arjun case is same.

Useless how ?? Pride -- Yes because it is one of the Best in the world standard, and its ours rather than TOT production and green paint with indegenous name.

Compared to entire 2500+ Tank fleet of India, 122 Arjuns require "special love"
They have rifled gun, they have different caliber of main gun, hence different ammo, they have different training parameters,hence limit of crew, they have different strategic & non strategic mobility parameters hence bigger carriers and narrow window of ooeration and above all, they have different maintainance requirements......

Riffled gun have its pros and cons. And the one who clain its useless has closed its brain and brain dead is called IDIOT.

This whole thing make Arjun a great toil on Indian tax money. And up coming Arjun Mk2 which "some lobbies" are trying to enforce on Indian Military will be even more heavy (70+Ton most heavy MBT in World)

Since you are not paying any TAX for the Arjun MBT, its useless to claim, that its been forced upon IA.

So what is game here? Indian defense sector need it's projects alive, Indian fan boys want something to beat their chest and army gonna just "accept" it even if it keep doing push ups in repair shops .......

Arjun Tank is one of the Best tank in the world, no matter how much some people with no knowledge of heavy MBT keeps whinnig.

What make a tank GOOD tank is its supportive nature. It give you ease in mobility, fire power, protection which remaining economical. It should share similarities with rest of your tank fleet, it should be battle ready every time.
You don't need such tank which can win war games but in case of war it end up in repair shops ........

Arjun have the Hunter capabilty, which it will utilize with T-90 as the supportive tank for encirclement. For those who have Bullshit mentality keep whinning about the economics, for the country who have bigger resource, and don't have any MBT of the similar capability.

 

[Tipu7]

So which light tank you can use in hilly and mountainous area.

Under 45 Ton in general........ depending upon terrain.
For fire support, not armored formation.
Indian T72 & T90 can be transported by C17 & Il78 to Kashmir, And both these tanks including T55 series can be used for fire support with Mechanized or Infantry div/brig.
Just like we are doing in Zarb e Azb and recent Afghan border clashes.....

Useless how ?? Pride -- Yes because it is one of the Best in the world standard, and its ours rather than TOT production and green paint with indegenous name.

I doubt Arjun belongs to same class of
Abraham M1A2 Sep, Leopard 2A7, T99A2, Armata T14, Challenger Mk2, Type 10 or K2 Black panther.......

It's basic 3rd Generation platform and I consider it insult of Tanks mentioned above to "enforce" Arjun in same field....

It's an old design, and you can notice improvements in MK2 design, particularly in Front turret ........

Arjun Tank is one of the Best tank in the world, no matter how much some people with no knowledge of heavy MBT keeps whinnig.

Chest beating ..........

its ours rather than TOT production and green paint with indegenous name.

Name Chinese components in AK?

Since you are not paying any TAX for the Arjun MBT, its useless to claim, that its been forced upon IA.

I give more worth to my chapal then I give to likes of you.....
I am just answering a certain guy. Why I give Damn where Gandhi faced money is spent? In buying tanks or in hiring sluts........ ?

Arjun have the Hunter capabilty, which it will utilize with T-90 as the supportive tank for encirclement. For those who have Bullshit mentality keep whinning about the economics, for the country who have bigger resource, and don't have any MBT of the similar capability.

Hunter killer ability is very common thing for all Modern MBT in World.....
Seem you are aware of only "one" term in armor .......

LOL

Riffled gun have its pros and cons. And the one who clain its useless has closed its brain and brain dead is called IDIOT.

Where I pointed fingers on Rifled cannon for it being under performance?
All I pointed out that having different caliber and different origin demand new ammo. Hence increasing over all expenditures......

So which light tank you can use in hilly and mountainous area.



Useless how ?? Pride -- Yes because it is one of the Best in the world standard, and its ours rather than TOT production and green paint with indegenous name.



Riffled gun have its pros and cons. And the one who clain its useless has closed its brain and brain dead is called IDIOT.




Since you are not paying any TAX for the Arjun MBT, its useless to claim, that its been forced upon IA.




Arjun Tank is one of the Best tank in the world, no matter how much some people with no knowledge of heavy MBT keeps whinnig.



Arjun have the Hunter capabilty, which it will utilize with T-90 as the supportive tank for encirclement. For those who have Bullshit mentality keep whinning about the economics, for the country who have bigger resource, and don't have any MBT of the similar capability.

It's Ramzan.
And my Tarbiat enforce me not to answer in same language as you are talking .......

 

[GURU DUTT]

Under 45 Ton in general........ depending upon terrain.
For fire support, not armored formation.
Indian T72 & T90 can be transported by C17 & Il78 to Kashmir, And both these tanks including T55 series can be used for fire support with Mechanized or Infantry div/brig.
Just like we are doing in Zarb e Azb and recent Afghan border clashes.....



I doubt Arjun belongs to same class of
Abraham M1A2 Sep, Leopard 2A7, T99A2, Armata T14, Challenger Mk2, Type 10 or K2 Black panther.......

It's basic 3rd Generation platform and I consider it insult of Tanks mentioned above to "enforce" Arjun in same field....

It's an old design, and you can notice improvements in MK2 design, particularly in Front turret ........



Chest beating ..........



Name Chinese components in AK?



I give more worth to my ***** then I give to you low lives.....
I am just answering a certain guy. Why I give Damn where Gandhi faced money is spent? In buying tanks or in hiring sluts........ ?



Hunter killer ability is very common thing for all Modern MBT in World.....
Seem you are aware of only "one" term in armor .......

LOL



Where is pointed fingers on Rifled cannon for it being under performance?
All I pointed out that having different caliber and different origin demand new ammo. Hence increasing over all expenditures......



It's Ramzan.
And my Tarbiat enforce me not to answer in same language as you are talking .......

thing is arjun was concievd in a hurry when in zia time there was firm beleve that USA is going to give M1 abrahams to pakistan but when PA finnally chose ukranian T84 IA lost interests in arjun and then they started changing goal posts after every 2-3 years

as for the so called fancy terms like hunter killer well arjun has one of the best of it in most leading MBTs in the world today only problem is it as per indian army now is that they want it to be at least 5-10 tonne lighter without loosing any of its protection and offensice cabillities

 

[Tipu7]

Pakistan was not interested In Abraham.
Not from start, it was America forcing that tank on Pakistan. In desert firing trials initial version of Abraham lost against Basic T59.....
Which consolidated the decision of Pakistan Military leadership not to follow this tank.....

And there was no reason from start !

thing is arjun was concievd in a hurry when in zia time there was firm beleve that USA is going to give M1 abrahams to pakistan but when PA finnally chose ukranian T84 IA lost interests in arjun and then they started changing goal posts after every 2-3 years

as for the so called fancy terms like hunter killer well arjun has one of the best of it in most leading MBTs in the world today only problem is it as per indian army now is that they want it to be at least 5-10 tonne lighter without loosing any of its protection and offensice cabillities