Idiot's Delight

[muse]

I continue to be amazed that some think that the title of the thread was not thought about

 

[XYON]

The fault in the article lies in its Title, NUCLEAR 'BAYONET'? A Bayonet is a sharp edged object in front of a rifle. When the rifle runs out of bullets, the soldiers uses the bayonet to poke the enemy dead. But our Nukes are not sharp edged objects that we can use to poke the enemy dead. Nukes will be used to obliterate the enemy!!!!

One thing is for sure, our nukes do provide us with a sense of security however temporary it may be. Otherwise, we would have had the same fate as Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan etc etc for one stupid reason or the other by the west. Push comes to shove, we surely know where to put a mushroom cloud and how many to put!! Case Closed!

 

[Jango]

No my friend. India exploded on 11 May and 13 May, you responded on 28 May. Pakistan exploded bombs which were already tested and proven. We had proven our bomb in 1974. When did you prove your bombs? Do you mean Pakistan exploded untested devices in 1998? Without knowing whether they would work or not? You just had five nuclear devices, fission and miniaturized boosted plutonium device (designed for warheads of missiles) stored in the basement without testing them? You could not take that risk. No one could. Your devices had already been tested in China.
That way you could go on to make hundreds of warheads without testing them. There is only one way to do that. Either you test it somewhere else so fingers will not be pointed at you or you get proven designs from someone. We lost nothing. Our explosions forced you to come overground and face the consequent music. We also had to face the same music but we handled it better.

pff, yeah right, Are we supposed to believe that and go along??

 

[OrionHunter]

pff, yeah right, Are we supposed to believe that and go along??

Yes! Because that's a fact!! Go read some books and papers (Now declassified) in the Library of the US Congress. It will give you the complete details of how and when it was tested in China and who was present. But of course you'll say it's all a load of crap, because you all want to live in a state of perpetual denial.

Deny Ignorance!

By the way, what's with the title of this thread?

Cheers!

 

[MastanKhan]

Gentlemen,

Even though the indian army may have helped pakistan in exploding the bomb---it didnot anticipate the effect that it would have on its general populace, the effect in the muslim world and the effect otherwise.

Till the middle of the last decade, india was playing the losing hand----direct confrontation---but then when it changed its stance to COLD START----the playing field has changed in favour of india----COLD START---I mean the non millitary strike version that I have talked about on this board----which pakistan has failed to recognize--.

After 2005 whatever statements pakistan and pakistanis have made regarding the usage of the bnuc----has created more problems for them than otherwise----only if they could have learnt to keep their mouths shut and kept their heads low---it would have helped pakistan's cause a bit more----. All this bragging has backfired.

 

[OrionHunter]

Till the middle of the last decade, india was playing the losing hand----direct confrontation---but then when it changed its stance to COLD START----the playing field has changed in favour of india----COLD START---I mean the non millitary strike version that I have talked about on this board----which pakistan has failed to recognize--.

Now what was that again? I mean the non military version of the Cold Start doctrine? Does it imply paying pack Pakistan with its own coin by using terror as a strategy? But then, two can play that game, right? However, I really am unaware if the Indian Establishment has any intention to do that!

Since Pakistan has failed to provide any evidence of this, I think this is probably not the case. Baluchistan is purely an internal uprising by the freedom fighters who want independence.

Cheers!

 

[majesticpankaj]

Now what was that again? I mean the non military version of the Cold Start doctrine? Does it imply paying pack Pakistan with its own coin by using terror as a strategy? But then, two can play that game, right? However, I really am unaware if the Indian Establishment has any intention to do that!

Since Pakistan has failed to provide any evidence of this, I think this is probably not the case. Baluchistan is purely an internal uprising by the freedom fighters who want independence.

Cheers!

I think he meant to say about the fear of cold start which has severe impact on Pakistan.

 

[Windjammer]

I think he meant to say about the fear of cold start which has severe impact on Pakistan.

Any wonder, why the need for this so called Cold Start was initiated.??
Could it be to address some rattling knees and jittery nerves. !!

 

[SQ8]

The problem will still end in radicalization , nukes or not.
No sane person will use a nuke..
but an emotionally charged up "pan-Islamist" just might.
Thank god for the many checks and balances in the system.

Indians please refrain from bringing in who made the nuke..
In our case a different idiom applies.
"The grass is always more burnt on the other side of the fence"..
It will keep the thread from derailing.

 

[muse]

By the way, what's with the title of this thread?
Cheers!

Keep an eye on the quality and of reasoning in responses by some - and it will come to you

 

[Elmo]

I continue to be amazed that some think that the title of the thread was not thought about

You are a tad bit too "abstract" for the Pakistani brain - 99 per cent of the time.

As for the nuclear bayonet, well, I think Hoodbhoy has not stated something ground breaking. If you search up the text, it's more or less a compilation of views/facts that have been said before.

 

[Tin Man]

Self delete.........

 

[Moorkh]

muse,

your argument as i understand it goes as follows -
"if india had not tested its nuclear weapons, pakistan wont have tested theris either. in that case the conventional superiority of the indian armed forces would have been relevant and usable in case of misadventures like kargil and op parakram. since the nuclear wepons were tested, it became clear that war might go nuclear. hence the indian conventional superirity was left pointless."

however you are missing a point. pakistan already had the capablity to create nuclear wepons when the indian tests took place. there is no way that the nuclear weapons pakistan tested appeared out of the blue within a month. we have to assume that the indian decision makers were aware of this pakistani capablity. hence the response to any misadventures would have had to be the same as it was after the tests. since pakistan had the undeclared capablity, it could still have used nuclear warheads against india in case of war. this meant that the government response would have been just as tempered as it has been. however without the pakistani nukes to blame for the tempered response, the government would have had no way to wheedle out of a war which in turn would have escalated to nukes.
so in retrospect i believe that the decision to test our weapons and in a way forcing pakistan to test theirs was a good decision

 

[muse]

Moorkh

I have no dog in this fight - read the lead article and you will see that it is Dr. Hoodbhoys contention, one which I find persuasive.

however you are missing a point. pakistan already had the capablity to create nuclear wepons when the indian tests took place. there is no way that the nuclear weapons pakistan tested appeared out of the blue within a month

Got it.

 

[muse]

As for the nuclear bayonet, well, I think Hoodbhoy has not stated something ground breaking. If you search up the text, it's more or less a compilation of views/facts that have been said before.

Yes, exactly - but for whatever reason, for the Pakistani uber nationalists, just reading the author's name on any work, elicits a response which is similar, in my opinion, to the kind of response the issue of Pakistan's nuclear capabilities and it's origins, elicits in the Indian - and thus the title of the thread