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ICJ rejects India’s plea for acquittal, repatriation of Kulbhushan - Updates, News & Discussion

Now it’s better and I understand it

I’m sometimes slow :P


Yes siding with naked truth but : you should learn law, its interpretations, its loopholes before doing business.

You will in position of force if you do things according laws.


Had Pakistani spaghettis lawyers known the law, they could have given proper justification of why we delayed the notification send to the indian consular.

Had those spaghettis lawyers known laws, we could have bring proper, or presented in proper way the evidences we have against KABUL YEHUDDAV to the ICJ.

Yes always stand with naked truth but present it according the existing currently at international level.

why waste material in ICJ? we shared the Dossier at UN level too.

patience is still a virtue
 
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Any meeting bw indian counselor and kalbu will be video recorded by Pakistani officials and indian counselor will not be allowed to bring any recording apparatus even on slightest doubt just like kbj's mother & wife's jewelries were removed.

woudnt that be counter productive.... ???

i mean yeah...his family..might be different...but an indian counselor...LOL ??

you dont do that in diplomatic circles...trust me :p

that would come to bite pakistan.....
 
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All they want is consular access and a retrial IN Pakistan..

Well you can have consular access

We will give him a trial

Then he will rot in jail forever or he will be given a death sentence for being a spy
Yes. Except a retrial would be adequate to prove India's point. You will see.
 
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Oh it’s not what is on record that is going to be spun. It’s everything that didn’t happen that we can make it look like it did that should bother you lol
at least you admit you guys are professional liars :coffee:
 
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ICJ has no jurisdiction and verdict is ridiculous.
Consular access for civilian or POWs. He is neither.
Pakistan wont budge.
Oh, read the judgement. ICJ has jurisdiction. Heck, you even sent your ad hoc judge there. Pak will give him consular access.
 
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Trust me, he knows he’s dead. For him, he has nothing more you can offer that will make him sing your tune..you played your trump aka death sentence.
Now it’s indias turn
Actually the very fact that india couldnt bring him home will make him sing tunes :)
 
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Any meeting bw indian counselor and kalbu will be video recorded by Pakistani officials and indian counselor will not be allowed to bring any recording apparatus even on slightest doubt just like kbj's mother & wife's jewelries were removed.

And how is that going to change what’s about to happen?
You’ve already given KJ a death sentence, aka used your leverage.
Him now speaking openly, about kidnap, torture or confession under duress will be openly said to the consular rep.
You can record it and we want you to lol
Something has to be shown in court right?
The worst you could do to him, you’ve done.
Now KJs worry will be the salvage of his life, which can only happen if he pleads not guilty. Not to mention the effects on his family in India, who he would want safe guarded as well.
India holds the cards now senor!
 
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We only needed to release information about one Indoo Monkey caught. The rest we are not releasing any info on and there are many others. Yadoo isn't the only one busted!

It's all good. Talking about one Monkey is enough to constantly slap Indoos over with. No need to talk of others.

What Indoos here don't realise that the longer they keep Yadoo in media, more India gets exposed. But they think otherwise.
 
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India still has to provide official Identity documents to prove that Kalbushan is an Indian Citizen, before access can be considered. Without fulfilling that requirement, there's no access.

Let's see if India now provides those citizenship documents. In the past it didn't. It didn't do so in these hearings as evidence either.

ICJ order doesn't do away these requirements. There's already a case and judgement on such a case where a country refused to provide proof of citizenship and ICJ declined to grant access without it.

Pakistan will happily drag it until Yadev's original identity passport copy is handed over.

So Indoos, handover his 'other' passport first :lol:

Wtf are you talking about?

Both parties have accepted that he is an Indian National. This is clearly stated on the ICJ website.
Where does the question of proving identity even come in?
Hope you know that this case is Kulbhushan Jadhav (identity) vs state of Pak with India defending his rights as an Indian National.
 
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On previous occasions when the ICJ has considered the issue of death penalty/consular access, it has never ordered relief of “acquittal, release and return” such as that sought by India.

According to an article titled 'ICJ’s limited jurisdiction', Pakistan is well within its rights to try and sentence Jadhav under its domestic laws for espionage.

However, one can jump around but he is not going anywhere. In long term and patience based reality; he will be facing an open trial and counselor access does not mean anything.... Indian media or establishment can twist it as much as want to but, India's wish/plea of acquittal, release & return are denied. Its simple.

Save this for your reading and reality check...

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Funny you talk of reality check:
Pakistan claimed ICJ has no Jurisdication in the case:
(1) finds, unanimously, that it has jurisdiction, on the basis of Article I of the Optional Protocol concerning the Compulsory Settlement of Disputes to the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 24 April 1963, to entertain the Application filed by the Republic of India on 8 May 2017;

Pakistan objected to the admissibility of the Application of India in ICJ
(2) rejects, by fifteen votes to one, the objections by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to the admissibility of the Application of the Republic of India and finds that the Application of the Republic of India is admissible;

Pakistan Denied Consular acess to India.

(3) finds, by fifteen votes to one, that, by not informing Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav without delay of his rights under Article 36, paragraph 1 (b), of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan breached the obligations incumbent upon it under that provision;

Pakistan did not notify Indian consulate in the matter:
(4) finds, by fifteen votes to one, that, by not notifying the appropriate consular post of the Republic of India in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan without delay of the detention of Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav and thereby depriving the Republic of India of the right to render the assistance provided for by the Vienna Convention to the individual concerned, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan breached the obligations incumbent upon it under Article 36, paragraph 1 (b), of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations;

Pakistan denied consular access to India.
(5) finds, by fifteen votes to one, that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan deprived the Republic of India of the right to communicate with and have access to Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav, to visit him in detention and to arrange for his legal representation, and thereby breached the obligations incumbent upon it under Article 36, paragraph 1 (a) and (c), of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations;

Pakistan claimed it was under no obligation to provide consular access to India
(6) finds, by fifteen votes to one, that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is under an obligation to inform Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav without further delay of his rights and to provide Indian consular officers access to him in accordance with Article 36 of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations;

Pakistan claimed due judicial process was executed in te case.
(7) finds, by fifteen votes to one, that the appropriate reparation, in this case, consists in the the obligation of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to provide, by the means of its own choosing, effective review and reconsideration of the conviction and sentence of Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav, so as to ensure that full weight is given to the effect of the violation of the rights set forth in Article 36 of the Convention, taking account of paragraphs 139, 145 and 146 of this Judgment;

Pakistani military court handed the death sentence in the case.
(8) declares, by fifteen votes to one, that a continued stay of execution constitutes an indispensable condition for the effective review and reconsideration of the conviction and sentence of Mr. Kulbhushan Sudhir Jadhav.


Your judicial expediency was actually better in hanging Zulfikar Ali Bhutto than Kulbhishan Yadav if memory serves right.

Now lets come to the reality check,

I. JURISDICTION
The Court, having noted that India and Pakistan are parties to the Vienna Convention and the Optional Protocol to the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations concerning the Compulsory Settlement of Disputes (hereinafter the “Optional Protocol”), finds that it has jurisdiction under Article I of the latter instrument to entertain India’s claims based on alleged violations of the Vienna Convention.

II. ADMISSIBILITY
Pakistan has raised three objections to the admissibility of India’s Application. These objections are based on
India’s alleged abuse of process,
abuse of rights and
unlawful conduct.




A. First objection: abuse of process In support of its first objection, Pakistan contends, first, that India abused its procedural rights when requesting the Court to indicate provisional measures in this case, and secondly, that before instituting the current proceedings, India failed to give consideration to other dispute - 3 - settlement mechanisms envisaged in Articles II and III of the Optional Protocol. The Court considers that neither argument can be upheld and rejects Pakistan’s first objection to the admissibility of India’s Application.

B. Second objection: abuse of rights Pakistan based its second objection on three main arguments. First, it refers to India’s refusal to “provide evidence” of Mr. Jadhav’s Indian nationality. Secondly, Pakistan mentions India’s failure to engage with its request for assistance in relation to the criminal investigations into Mr. Jadhav’s activities. Thirdly, Pakistan alleges that India authorized Mr. Jadhav to cross the Indian border with a “false cover name authentic passport” in order to conduct espionage and terrorist activities. In response to Pakistan’s first argument, the Court observes that the evidence before it shows that both Parties have considered Mr. Jadhav to be an Indian national. With regard to the second and third arguments, based on various alleged breaches of India’s obligations under Security Council resolution 1373 (2001), the Court is of the view that such allegations are properly a matter for the merits and therefore cannot be invoked as a ground of inadmissibility. For these reasons, the Court finds that Pakistan’s second objection to the admissibility of India’s Application must be rejected. The second and third arguments advanced by Pakistan are addressed by the Court when dealing with the merits.

C. Third objection: India’s alleged unlawful conduct In its third objection, Pakistan asks the Court to dismiss the Application on the basis of India’s alleged unlawful conduct, relying on the “clean hands” doctrine and the principles of “ex turpi causa non oritur actio” and “ex injuria jus non oritur”. The Court considers that none of the arguments put forward can be upheld and rejects Pakistan’s third objection to the admissibility of India’s Application.
 
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India's long shot requests were denied and Pakistanis celebrating it as a victory.

India requested consular access from Pakistan. It got one through ICJ.

Pakistans advocate Qureshi was just mediocre. He invested more on flair than substance.

Indians, oh Indians, self deluding, grandstanding Indians.
SupaPowa without any power.
World most richest country with 600 millions living in abject poverty.
In a country where million born and die on the footpath never seen roof on their heads.
But its Bollywood heroes wear Bandanas, film in foreign countries to show an image not found in India.
To show life styles which is beyond 99% of its population. But hay what reality have to do with SupaPowa.

Same way Pakistan knew the counselor access would be granted. It was very very short shot.
If they were long shot why made it!!
But being deluded Indians you have failed to deduced what is the real meaning and impact of the decision.

When you take a case to a court which title itself "International Court of Justice" it is neigh impossible that it would say that it doesn't have jurisdictions on world cases.
The rejections of Pakistani pleas were not only expected but understandable.
So in all three points rejection of Pakistan's instance was ICJ safeguarding its own rights and jurisdictions rather than enhancing Indians point of view.

The rest has spectacularly backfired on India.
 
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Wtf are you talking about?

Both parties have accepted that he is an Indian National. This is clearly stated on the ICJ website.
Where does the question of proving identity even come in?
Hope you know that this case is Kulbhushan Jadhav (identity) vs state of Pak with India defending his rights as an Indian National.
Indian National why need Irani passport with a new name? :coffee:
 
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