IAF’s Mig-21 Bison forced to drop three fuel tanks while flying near Gwalior

[TimeTraveller]

An Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter plane dropped three fuel tanks on
outskirts of Gwalior city in Madhya Pradesh on Saturday during an
in-flight emergency.The Gwalior air base ‘Bison’ was conducting a
routine training mission when the incident took place.

The pilot was forced to jettison the fuel tanks. They were dropped about
5km from the runway of the base and landed in a field 500m away from a
residential locality, said sources.

Emergency crews rushed to the area, and no injuries were reported.

The pilot followed proper procedures during the incident, although
having the fuel tanks land in the farm was a coincidence, said an IAF
officer on condition of anonymity.

“As part of the landing procedure the pilot had to eject the external
tanks before attempting a landing which was safely made with the Bison
returning to base,” said the officer adding, “Dropping the tank reduces
the aircraft’s weight and drag and gives the pilot better control in the
event of engine failure”.

“We’re really happy that no one was hurt and the pilot is ok,” he said.

One tank landed ending up near a toll booth and was close to a field
where a farmer was working. Fortunately the fuel on board both tanks did
not catch fire.

All three drop tanks were recovered by the IAF officials and taken to
the air base. The incident is under investigation.

Source : IAF’s Mig-21 Bison forced to drop three fuel tanks while flying near Gwalior | idrw.org

 

[Lostsoldier]

Still IAF says it doesn't need lca.

 

[NKVD]

Still IAF says it doesn't need lca.

Is lca is ready to be delivered I ask you.this why rafale is needed the most even if we have to get all directly from the French.

 

[Lostsoldier]

Is lca is ready to be delivered I ask you.this why rafale is needed the most even if we have to get all directly from the French.

The primary objective of lca was to replace mig 21 and I am sure tejas is a good replacement. Limiting the no. To 40 will lead to more incidents.

 

[NKVD]

The primary objective of lca was to replace mig 21 and I am sure tejas is a good replacement. Limiting the no. To 40 will lead to more incidents.

But in reality PSU they failed to deliver in time frame.by best we get 40 mk1 by 2018 which far to less to replace old 70 era Russian aircrafts which is over 200 in number.by 2018 we will get 2 squadron's of Rafale's so finally we get 40 -34 = 74 aircrafts which will be pretty optimistic by 2022 ,we will get all retired aircraft replaced

 

[Lostsoldier]

But in reality PSU they failed to deliver in time frame.by best we get 40 mk1 by 2018 which far to less to replace old 70 era Russian aircrafts which is over 200 in number.by 2018 we will get 2 squadron's of Rafale's so finally we get 40 -34 = 74 aircrafts which will be pretty optimistic by 2022 ,we will get all retired aircraft replaced

If IAF makes inducting lca as it's primary goal to induct lca we can setup production lines.Raffale is not a replacement for mig 21 as it is interceptor and has limited use, rafale has its own class in aircrafts, it will be a huge power booster but not a replacement.

 

[gau8av]

it says he followed proper procedures but shouldn't the pilot have dumped the fuel in the tanks before dropping them ?

@gambit

 

[gambit]

it says he followed proper procedures but shouldn't the pilot have dumped the fuel in the tanks before dropping them ?

@gambit

Too little info.

External fuel tanks are designed to be used by the aircraft, not to be dumped. If a fighter needs to jettison fuel, it is the jet itself that will perform the act, not the external tank itself. In other words, the jet will jettison its internal fuel while at the same time transfer fuel from the externals to the internals. As far as fuel management is concerned, jettisoning fuel is no different than feeding the engines.

For this situation...

They were dropped about 5km from the runway of the base and landed in a field 500m away from a residential locality, said sources.

Source: IAF’s Mig-21 Bison forced to drop three fuel tanks while flying near Gwalior

Five km from the runway mean he must have just took off and that mean the three externals at the time of abandonment still contained a lot of fuel, probably more than half per tank. However, we do not know how long after take-off did he have any problem. Pilots would rather try to keep everything together before getting rid of things off their jets, and if a pilot is within population areas, even if he is loaded with ordnance, he will definitely try to keep everything together. So for this pilot to abandon his three external tanks so soon after take-off, either he must have had a serious problem, or he is an utter boob. I will be generous and believe that he is a competent pilot.

Another possibility on why his three externals have fuel is that he just completed air refueling training and was returning home. Does the MIG-21 in this event capable of air refuel ? The article does not say so I will leave it up to you guys to investigate public news sources.

 

[surya kiran]

Too little info.

Does the MIG-21 in this event capable of air refuel ? The article does not say so I will leave it up to you guys to investigate public news sources.

Not sure, if any of the IAF Mig 21 Bisons have air refuelling capabilities.

 

[Donatello]

Too little info.

External fuel tanks are designed to be used by the aircraft, not to be dumped. If a fighter needs to jettison fuel, it is the jet itself that will perform the act, not the external tank itself. In other words, the jet will jettison its internal fuel while at the same time transfer fuel from the externals to the internals. As far as fuel management is concerned, jettisoning fuel is no different than feeding the engines.

For this situation...


Five km from the runway mean he must have just took off and that mean the three externals at the time of abandonment still contained a lot of fuel, probably more than half per tank. However, we do not know how long after take-off did he have any problem. Pilots would rather try to keep everything together before getting rid of things off their jets, and if a pilot is within population areas, even if he is loaded with ordnance, he will definitely try to keep everything together. So for this pilot to abandon his three external tanks so soon after take-off, either he must have had a serious problem, or he is an utter boob. I will be generous and believe that he is a competent pilot.

Another possibility on why his three externals have fuel is that he just completed air refueling training and was returning home. Does the MIG-21 in this event capable of air refuel ? The article does not say so I will leave it up to you guys to investigate public news sources.

Gambit, assuming full afterburner takeoff, how much of the total fuel (External + Internal) is burned to get the plane airborne? Let's say for a typically loaded F-16, Mig21, Mig 29 etc? Some figures put it up close to 20%, same with civilian airliners i guess, like 777

 

[Raul_AD]

An Indian Air Force (IAF) fighter plane dropped three fuel tanks on
outskirts of Gwalior city in Madhya Pradesh on Saturday during an
in-flight emergency.The Gwalior air base ‘Bison’ was conducting a
routine training mission when the incident took place.

The pilot was forced to jettison the fuel tanks. They were dropped about
5km from the runway of the base and landed in a field 500m away from a
residential locality, said sources.

Emergency crews rushed to the area, and no injuries were reported.

The pilot followed proper procedures during the incident, although
having the fuel tanks land in the farm was a coincidence, said an IAF
officer on condition of anonymity.

“As part of the landing procedure the pilot had to eject the external
tanks before attempting a landing which was safely made with the Bison
returning to base,” said the officer adding, “Dropping the tank reduces
the aircraft’s weight and drag and gives the pilot better control in the
event of engine failure”.

“We’re really happy that no one was hurt and the pilot is ok,” he said.

One tank landed ending up near a toll booth and was close to a field
where a farmer was working. Fortunately the fuel on board both tanks did
not catch fire.

All three drop tanks were recovered by the IAF officials and taken to
the air base. The incident is under investigation.

Source : IAF’s Mig-21 Bison forced to drop three fuel tanks while flying near Gwalior | idrw.org

Incidences like this will force IAF to induct Tejas MK-I in numbers. As the days will pass it will become difficult for IAF to explain why they are not inducting Tejas.

 

[The Great One]

Too little info.

External fuel tanks are designed to be used by the aircraft, not to be dumped. If a fighter needs to jettison fuel, it is the jet itself that will perform the act, not the external tank itself. In other words, the jet will jettison its internal fuel while at the same time transfer fuel from the externals to the internals. As far as fuel management is concerned, jettisoning fuel is no different than feeding the engines.

For this situation...


Five km from the runway mean he must have just took off and that mean the three externals at the time of abandonment still contained a lot of fuel, probably more than half per tank. However, we do not know how long after take-off did he have any problem. Pilots would rather try to keep everything together before getting rid of things off their jets, and if a pilot is within population areas, even if he is loaded with ordnance, he will definitely try to keep everything together. So for this pilot to abandon his three external tanks so soon after take-off, either he must have had a serious problem, or he is an utter boob. I will be generous and believe that he is a competent pilot.

Another possibility on why his three externals have fuel is that he just completed air refueling training and was returning home. Does the MIG-21 in this event capable of air refuel ? The article does not say so I will leave it up to you guys to investigate public news sources.

According to the news source he jettisoned the tanks whilst landing and it also hints towards an engine failure.

 

[gambit]

Gambit, assuming full afterburner takeoff, how much of the total fuel (External + Internal) is burned to get the plane airborne? Let's say for a typically loaded F-16, Mig21, Mig 29 etc? Some figures put it up close to 20%, same with civilian airliners i guess, like 777

For an F-16...It depends on the mission's config for that day. An A-G sortie will require more fuel for take-off than for a CAP jet loaded with only missiles. But regardless of what is loaded on the jet, when the burner is lit, about 25 gals per min is the burn rate. Now you factor in the jet's config. If it is an A-G sortie, the jet will require a longer runway run, which mean a longer burner to get the jet off the ground and into cruise speed.

Actually, afterburner is NOT necessary for take-off, even for an A-G config-ed jet. I will need a much longer runway time, if there is enough runway available, that is. We use AB because we want to get off the ground ASAP. For an F-16 that just came out of phase maintenance and is going for a 'functional check flight' (FCF), the jet will be a clean config, will not have even a centerline tank and no AB will be needed at all for a much shorter runway take-off, practically half.

Aerospaceweb.org | Aircraft Museum -
F-16 Fighting Falcon

Takeoff Distance (F-16A) 1,750 ft (535 m) with 4,000 lb (1,815 kg) external load
Landing Distance (F-16A) 2,650 ft (810 m) with 4,000 lb (1,815 kg) external load

I know it is for the older 'A' model but it can serve as a guide.

The F-16's internal fuel capacity is 7k lbs rounded figure. If we configure the jet for a mixed sortie, meaning I carry three 500-pounders per wing and four missiles, two Sidewinders and two AMRAAMs, for use after I dropped the bombs, then an AB take-off would consume roughly 1k lbs of fuel, leaving me with very little fuel for patrol and to fight. With four missiles, that would mean no external wing tanks. So an estimate of %20, or may be a little bit less, fuel consumption for an AB take-off for a mixed config F-16 is reasonable if we factor in altitude and weather.

 

[rockstarIN]

Too little info.

External fuel tanks are designed to be used by the aircraft, not to be dumped. If a fighter needs to jettison fuel, it is the jet itself that will perform the act, not the external tank itself. In other words, the jet will jettison its internal fuel while at the same time transfer fuel from the externals to the internals. As far as fuel management is concerned, jettisoning fuel is no different than feeding the engines.

For this situation...


Five km from the runway mean he must have just took off and that mean the three externals at the time of abandonment still contained a lot of fuel, probably more than half per tank. However, we do not know how long after take-off did he have any problem. Pilots would rather try to keep everything together before getting rid of things off their jets, and if a pilot is within population areas, even if he is loaded with ordnance, he will definitely try to keep everything together. So for this pilot to abandon his three external tanks so soon after take-off, either he must have had a serious problem, or he is an utter boob. I will be generous and believe that he is a competent pilot.

Another possibility on why his three externals have fuel is that he just completed air refueling training and was returning home. Does the MIG-21 in this event capable of air refuel ? The article does not say so I will leave it up to you guys to investigate public news sources.

Now Mig-21s are being piloted by very experienced guys, so the human error chance is very less. There was a suspected engine problem for the jet as per the news report.

 

[gambit]

According to the news source he jettisoned the tanks whilst landing and it also hints towards an engine failure.

I think you (reasonably) misunderstood the article.

“As part of the landing procedure the pilot had to eject the external tanks before attempting a landing which was safely made with the Bison returning to base,”

Source: IAF’s Mig-21 Bison forced to drop three fuel tanks while flying near Gwalior

That sentence does not mean he was in approach for landing. It mean he was readying the jet for a landing, and his in-flight emergency (IFE) procedures expects him to discard his external tanks. Until more information is available, the best guess I can give is he had a serious problem pretty much after take-off, may be even right after weight-off-wheels (WOW).

Take-offs and landings are most vulnerable and dangerous for any pilot and his aircraft, whether it is a dinky little Cessna 150 or an F-16 or a B-52. It may be counter-intuitive for non-pilots, but the two most safe states for any aircraft is either parked on the ground or fully airborne. So if I have a problem during rotation, the word 'rotation' mean finally getting airlifted, I will definitely try to get fully airborne, secure the aircraft into as stable flight as possible, assess my predicament, circle around, then attempt a landing. Unlike action movies, bailing out is the least palatable, and therefore, last option.

If my procedures expects me to expend all possible external loads, I will try to do so AFTER I am in stable flight. The danger here is that whatever my problem is, it may unpredictably affect aircraft stability, and if I try to expend external loads, the discard may be asymmetrical, creating asymmetric aerodynamic issues, which may cause me to crash. Get to stable flight first, then worry about how to safely expend external loads.