IAF's heavy-lift helicopter tender opened

[Bhai Zakir]

IAF's heavy-lift helicopter tender opened

New Delhi, Oct 3 (IANS) The defence ministry has opened the bids of the two contestants in Indian Air Force (IAF) competition for heavy-lift helicopters and a decision would soon be taken on the winner based on the life-cycle costs.

Highly placed sources told India Strategic defence magazine (..:: India Strategic ::.. Home Page: The authoritative monthly on Defence and Strategic Affairs.) that both the Russian Mi-26 and the Boeing Chinook Ch47F had qualified in the technical trials and that their financial bids, covering the initial acquisition cost as well as the lifecycle costs, were opened September-end.

The bids were opened in the presence of their representatives, and the winner would be declared based on what is known as the L-1, or the lowest bidder principle. The IAF is looking for 15 heavy-lift helicopters.

Sources said that a decision should take about a couple of months or so, unless one of the vendors has given incomplete replies for which clarifications would be required and that would add to the time needed. "Absence of replies or incomplete replies do happen, leading later to interpretation issues and disputes; so it is best to sort them out right in the beginning," the sources said.

They also said that discussions with the French manufacturer Dassault for finalising the contract for 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) were being held on almost a daily basis and the contract should be finalised and signed by the end of fiscal 2012-13, that is by March 2013.

Representatives of Dassault, which makes and integrates the aircraft, and Thales and Safran (Snecma), the two companies which make the electronic warfare systems and engines respectively, have also been visiting New Delhi and Bangalore regularly for negotiations with IAF, defence ministry and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the lead Indian integrator.

The option clause for 63 more MMRCAs would be worked out in due course of time as the negotiations progress.

Interestingly, all the aircraft deals with Russia so far have been on single-vendor, government-to-government basis, and to get a favourable decision in the case of heavy lift competition, the Russians will also have to fulfil the obligatory 30 percent offsets requirement, besides being lower in the costing. If they win, this will be the first aircraft offsets case for them.

The IAF has been using the Mi-26 helicopters for about a quarter century now, but they are outdated in technology, consume too much fuel, are expensive to maintain and their spares also are not easily available. Russia will have to produce newer units with refined technologies anyway for their own or global sales.

Lockheed Martin and Boeing of the US have won orders for 12 C-130J Super Hercules and 10 C-17 Globemaster III aircraft and in both these deals, there is a 30 perrcent offsets clause.

The suppliers are given three years to deliver the first units after a contract is signed.


IAF's heavy-lift helicopter tender opened

 

[Asskicker]

Flying ships ,Mi-26 should be shortlisted...

 

[Abingdonboy]

I do hope that life cycle costs are the critria and not unit cost otherwise the Chinooks are dead in the water. Given that Boeing haven pulled out and entered in the first place makes me think that life cycle costs are going to be taken into account and in that case the CH-47F has a VERY good chance against the hopeless MI-26s. I suspect that the Chinook will come out on top and the MoD will apply the well-honed life-cycle cost analysis and find the Boeing offer much more attractive.




Ch-47F in Indian colours- that will be the day!! Am hoping we will see larger follow-on deals in the coming years once the Chinook proves itself and with the Indian SOCOM coming up the SOF variant of the CH-47 being ordered.

 

[Sergi]

I do hope that life cycle costs are the critria and not unit cost otherwise the Chinooks are dead in the water. Given that Boeing haven pulled out and entered in the first place makes me think that life cycle costs are going to be taken into account and in that case the CH-47F has a VERY good chance against the hopeless MI-26s. I suspect that the Chinook will come out on top and the MoD will apply the well-honed life-cycle cost analysis and find the Boeing offer much more attractive.




Ch-47F in Indian colours- that will be the day!! Am hoping we will see larger follow-on deals in the coming years once the Chinook proves itself and with the Indian SOCOM coming up the SOF variant of the CH-47 being ordered.

Chinook will NOT win
It's a tender for heavy lift. Mi-26 is better in it
L1 will be decided by over all life cycle cost and that will be killing point for Chinnok as well.
India already have the needed infrastructure for Mi-26 and I heard New Mi-26 has rectified all the old issue. So it's kinda win

 

[holysaturn]

I do hope that life cycle costs are the critria and not unit cost otherwise the Chinooks are dead in the water. Given that Boeing haven pulled out and entered in the first place makes me think that life cycle costs are going to be taken into account and in that case the CH-47F has a VERY good chance against the hopeless MI-26s. I suspect that the Chinook will come out on top and the MoD will apply the well-honed life-cycle cost analysis and find the Boeing offer much more attractive.




Ch-47F in Indian colours- that will be the day!! Am hoping we will see larger follow-on deals in the coming years once the Chinook proves itself and with the Indian SOCOM coming up the SOF variant of the CH-47 being ordered.

you have a point,and the chinooks have aerial refueling capability too that the mi-26 lacks, but considering that the mil lifts almost twice as the chinook and IAF already operates older mi-26 costs of pilot training, maintenance training, spares will cost less even if you take lifetime expenses i think both are evenly placed but personally i would like to see ch-47s in IAF

 

[Abingdonboy]

Chinook will NOT win
It's a tender for heavy lift. Mi-26 is better in it
L1 will be decided by over all life cycle cost and that will be killing point for Chinnok as well.
India already have the needed infrastructure for Mi-26 and I heard New Mi-26 has rectified all the old issue. So it's kinda win

Well brother we are going to find out who is right soon enough but my prediction is Chinook FTW!!


There is a clear trend emerging of Indian forces moving away from Russian junk and only buying that which it cannot get better from elsewhere. In this sense the Chinook is the better of the two wrt military needs. As a heavy lift civil helo the Mi-26 beats the Chinook hands down but in the same way the AN-124 is useless for anything but rear-logisitcs or civil hire, the Mi-26 as a lumbering and outdated peice of equipment has no buisness being in the Indian military especially with its past record. JMHO.

 

[SpArK]

This tender now has some political angle.

Hence Chinook is not the front runner.

 

[Abingdonboy]

you have a point,and the chinooks have aerial refueling capability too that the mi-26 lacks, but considering that the mil lifts almost twice as the chinook and IAF already operates older mi-26 costs of pilot training, maintenance training, spares will cost less even if you take lifetime expenses i think both are evenly placed but personally i would like to see ch-47s in IAF

If you want to talk about past experince with IAF I would not put this in the "pros" column for the MI-26. The IAF have had a truly horrid experince with the Mi-26s with the fleet being constanly grounded for lack of spares, and questions over safety. The IAF's experince with the MI-26 has probobly left a bitter taste in their minds'. And if we were to take life cycle costs into it then the Chinook with 1000s of them in service around the world is the clear winner, just like with most Russian equipment (especially wrt India) hardly any domestic orders or deomestic utilisation means there is a cronic lack of critical support infrastructure (somthing the Americans are masters at) meaning that this small (relativly) order for 15 units that may increase over time is not going to be enough to sustain such a network in Russia an mean there will be a crtical lack of spares for the IAF.

This tender now has some political angle.

Hence Chinook is not the front runner.

Even if there was a poltiical elemant to the deal now (which I don't think will be the case) then surely with recent issues, the US offerings has a MUCH better chance?

 

[Sergi]

Well brother we are going to find out who is right soon enough but my prediction is Chinook FTW!!


There is a clear trend emerging of Indian forces moving away from Russian junk and only buying that which it cannot get better from elsewhere. In this sense the Chinook is the better of the two wrt military needs. As a heavy lift civil helo the Mi-26 beats the Chinook hands down but in the same way the AN-124 is useless for anything but rear-logisitcs or civil hire, the Mi-26 as a lumbering and outdated peice of equipment has no buisness being in the Indian military especially with its past record. JMHO.

I think there was a thread on PDF when this tender was out and the so called new Mi-26 were with new cockpits avionics and better engins.
As far as I know IAF will select the chopper JUST for heavy life and not for other purposes.

I like Chinook. It can be used for more purposes. But hey Tender is only for heavy lift. Besides over all life cycle cost for Chinook will have to cover infrastructure and messy US laws for TOT. So we already know the answer. Still we will wait

 

[SpArK]

Even if there was a poltiical elemant to the deal now (which I don't think will be the case) then surely with recent issues, the US offerings has a MUCH better chance?

I think the balancing act will take over in this decision.

Lets wait fingers crossed.

 

[arp2041]

Well brother we are going to find out who is right soon enough but my prediction is Chinook FTW!!


There is a clear trend emerging of Indian forces moving away from Russian junk and only buying that which it cannot get better from elsewhere. In this sense the Chinook is the better of the two wrt military needs. As a heavy lift civil helo the Mi-26 beats the Chinook hands down but in the same way the AN-124 is useless for anything but rear-logisitcs or civil hire, the Mi-26 as a lumbering and outdated peice of equipment has no buisness being in the Indian military especially with its past record. JMHO.

You may be right, there is a trend emerging over the years which shows that IAF (all the armed forces for that matter) really uses it's mind, when it's pockets are filled, as far as defence procurement are concerned:

Transport fleet (not much of hi-tech used, so no prob. at time of war when there can be sanctions) is now being bought from US - eg. C130j, C-17s, etc.

Advanced jet planes are being bought from European countries with Israeli avionics etc. acting as icing on the cake - eg. Rafale, HAWKs, etc.

Restricted technology is being bought from Russia - eg. FGFA.

Apart from this IAF & HAL are moving on indigenous front as well with LCA, AMCA, LCH, etc.

So, IAF is really firing on all cylinders, way to go man

 

[Abingdonboy]

This tender now has some political angle.

Hence Chinook is not the front runner.

If it were the case the GoI/MoD were looking to "balance" defence procurement I doubt they would look to do so over such a (relatively) small deal as a $1 BN helo contract. This is hardly a strategic deal.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Someone told me that Chinooks will be the winner and a total of 50-60 Apaches will be bought and rest will be LCH and Rudra...waiting to see how reliable he is...

 

[MilSpec]

Chinook vs Mi 26

 

[Paan Singh]

chinook is winner...its tandem rotor makes it different