IAF wants fresh info from France as concern rises over reports of Pakistani pilots’ Rafale training

[Riz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1116312381431279617

IAF ka THOOKU..

 

[SrNair]

Now picture is clear .Americans still hope for some miracle.
Even if they got training and innards , France and India will jointly work to develop the jet further and customise it

 

[The Eagle]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1116312381431279617

Wrong... and a big NO. However, PAF had a visit to France but that was in total different contexts.

However, whatever Jon Lake has been up-to, both arguments of "This report shouldn't be published" or "This report is published correctly for many reasons"; are correct. By not mentioning Pakistani Pilots; would have served the purpose of an element of surprise but on other hand, by speaking about the same actually made an impact in advance for them to be very careful. Counter productive, though.

 

[deckingraj]

I know such news are planted from time to time and intentions behind it however just for the sake of knowledge, lets assume this news is true. Can someone please explain about how training in an Aircraft = compromise of that Aircraft? I mean what are the trade secrets that can only be learned by training in that Aircraft and how does this equate to compromising weapon package?

 

[maximuswarrior]

Nothing to worry for India. Su-30 and MiG-21 are still there.

 

[alee92nawaz]

The Rafale controversy took a fresh turn late Wednesday after a US defence portal’s February report surfaced, saying Pakistan Air Force exchange pilots were trained in France to fly the Rafale fighter jets of the Qatar Air Force.

The AIN Online report, which was published in February, said the Pakistani pilots were trained on board Rafale jets in November 2017. This was a year after India signed a deal with France and Dassault Aviation to buy 36 Rafale jets.

Although neither the Indian Air Force nor the defence ministry has issued any statement or denied the US report, top sources in the Indian defence establishment told ThePrint that the IAF will seek fresh information from Dassault Aviation and its Air Attache in France. The French ambassador in New Delhi tweeted that the portal’s report was “fake news.”

What the IAF wants to know is if, as the report mentions, the pilots were indeed Pakistani and what level of training they were given.

The IAF sources claimed the initial information received suggested a batch of Pakistani technical team was in France on behalf of Qatar only “a few months back”.

“It is wrong to say that pilots were trained in 2017. Initial information is that there were no Pakistani pilots who were trained by the French government. Even if they were, it would have been done in the last one year,” said the source.

“Additional information will be sought from Dassault Aviation and the Air Attache in France.”

The initial information also suggested that the Pakistani technical team was just given one general briefing, the source added.

Top French sources told ThePrint that all the pilots who are being trained on the Rafale jets for Qatar Air Force hold official Qatari passports. But, unlike India, Pakistan allows dual nationality. So, it is quite likely they retained their Pakistani passports too.

Asked if there’s a security and secrecy risk for India in case the US report turns out to be true, the defence source said, “If they indeed would have been trained, then they will be scared by the capability of the fighter aircraft. Getting trained is no issue, the problem will only come if Qatar decides to hand over the aircraft to Pakistan. But that is not possible because of the end-user agreement between France and Qatar.”

An important point to be noted is, that in the past, Arab countries are known to have transferred their American-made frontline fighters to Pakistan. The two most notable cases are Jordan in 1971 (F-104 Starfighters) and now, at least 14 F-16s. The transfers were approved by the US.

India is expecting the first batch of the aircraft in September this year. Qatar received its first batch of the fighter jets in February. In any case, there is no restriction over Qatar allowing PAF pilots routinely seconded to it to fly the Rafales.

Pilots from friendly governments being given access to aircraft and equipment which may also be in the inventory of their adversaries, however, is a routine practice. IAF pilots have lately had plenty of access to USAF F-16s in joint exercises and trainings. What needs greater secrecy and protection than the aircraft or weaponry are the tactics and customised softwares.

Qatar’s Rafale deal and Pakistan
The West Asian country had signed a €6.3 billion agreement for the purchase of 24 Rafale jets (six of them two-seat trainers) in May 2015. A dozen more aircraft were added to the order in December 2017, said the AIN Online report.

“Qatar’s Rafales differ in detail from those delivered to France and Egypt, and integration of the Lockheed Martin Sniper targeting pod and Elbit Systems TARGO-II helmet-mounted target designation system required extensive testing,” added the report.

The Israeli helmet-mounted display is one of the 14 specific enhancements the India-ordered Rafales will have.

Qatar and Pakistan have strong military cooperation ties. It is estimated that over 600 Pakistani troops are posted in Qatar as part of the defence pact.

The Qatar Air Force also has a number of Pakistani personnel, but mostly for maintenance.

Indian team in France
Currently, a large number of IAF officials are in France overseeing the progress of the Rafale production, and getting trained on the systems.

While seven IAF pilots are receiving training in France — this number will eventually rise to 20 — about 50 air force personnel from the engineering and maintenance wing are also getting trained there.

https://theprint.in/defence/modi-go...tive-information-coming-out-in-public/219627/

IAF trained in F-16s alot and said that their jets will eat F-16s for breakfast but during war didnt prove to be that useful

 

[Trailer23]

This news was aired 5 hours earlier on NDTV.

Check Timecode: 1:30

NDTV had reached out to Dassault for confirmation, & up until 5hrs back, no official reponse had come in (yet).

 

[alee92nawaz]

Old thread about Qatar sending PAF pilots to train on rafaleshttps://defence.pk/pdf/threads/qata...ots-for-training-on-the-french-rafale.463514/

 

[slapshot]

I know such news are planted from time to time and intentions behind it however just for the sake of knowledge, lets assume this news is true. Can someone please explain about how training in an Aircraft = compromise of that Aircraft? I mean what are the trade secrets that can only be learned by training in that Aircraft and how does this equate to compromising weapon package?

Every platform has its advantages and disadvantages which you know better once you have first hand experience of using that platform. BTW Pakistan at the moment is simply trolling India, its up to India how to react to such news . If you people are going to complain at GOVT level then perhaps your GOVT believes it to be something serious.

 

[TheTallGuy]

French are very very clever and shrewd! they are for nobody except themselves... Its like poor argentine AF and Navy which had exocet in 1982 they shared it with british how to jam and rest is history FAA Super Entenderd with they exocet were toothless.

They did the same to us..i still remember 1998-99 when they slowed down the delivery of Mirage 5EF/TF ROSE II to Pakistan because of Kargill crises.

Frenchmenship is Frenchmenship - now whatever they history has shown them to be sellouts!

 

[deckingraj]

Every platform has its advantages and disadvantages which you know better once you have first hand experience of using that platform. BTW Pakistan at the moment is simply trolling India, its up to India how to react to such news . If you people are going to complain at GOVT level then perhaps your GOVT believes it to be something serious.

ummm...well not disagreeing here, however i am not still not getting how is this a weapons package compromise...also in Cope India and many other Aerial exercises, IAF is pitted against various versions of F-16's...During MMRCA trials, F-16's were thoroughly checked and on various conditions/locations by IAF personnel, so still waiting for some specific technical points....b/w as stated by my very first line(original post), i am very much of the view, this news is fake...

French are very very clever and shrewd! they are for nobody except themselves... Its like poor argentine AF and Navy which had exocet in 1982 they shared it with british how to jam and rest is history FAA Super Entenderd with they exocet were toothless.

They did the same to us..i still remember 1998-99 when they slowed down the delivery of Mirage 5EF/TF ROSE II to Pakistan because of Kargill crises.

Frenchmenship is Frenchmenship - now whatever they history has shown them to be sellouts!

This is a good quality to have and which is what makes them very reliable partners. I don't know about specifics in your case, however no supplier would want to get a hit on reliability as once a reputation is compromised, you are pretty much done....To put things in context, we have great relations with Israel, however they are more likely to block something(under US pressure) than French.

 

[slapshot]

ummm...well not disagreeing here, however i am not still not getting how is this a weapons package compromise...also in Cope India and many other Aerial exercises, IAF is pitted against various versions of F-16's...During MMRCA trials, F-16's were thoroughly checked and on various conditions/locations by IAF personnel, so still waiting for some specific technical points....b/w as stated by my very first line(original post), i am very much of the view, this news is fake...

As I said Pakistan is trolling you guys and its up to your GOVT how to react. But then again if your Air Chief can blame defeat to PAF over 36 missing Rafale then your GOVT/Army can go to any length. Who knows if something goes wrong again they blame that Pakistan has inside knowledge of french jets. When you start making excuses and start lying then sky is the limit.

 

[TheTallGuy]

Say whatever IAF and Indian People are taken for a ride by Modi.

Fake news or not? questions are there? it was not important when published on 13-Feb-19 then 27th Feb happened and all of sudden Su-30s/Mirage 2000i/MiG-21Bison all turn into scrap then Modi comes along and says "Rafale hota to " and now this little info becomes big!

ELINT/SIGINT is name of the game - SA is name of game

This is a good quality to have and which is what makes them very reliable partners. I don't know about specifics in your case, however no supplier would want to get a hit on reliability as once a reputation is compromised, you are pretty much done....To put things in context, we have great relations with Israel, however they are more likely to block something(under US pressure) than French.

Ask the Argentinians forces what did they feel? they even sell out israel as well post 1967 sold the same mirage to egyptians/libyans stop giving them spares

Its like you conveniently ignore the history! they are sellouts they play both ways...

 

[deckingraj]

As I said Pakistan is trolling you guys and its up to your GOVT how to react. But then again if your Air Chief can blame defeat to PAF over 36 missing Rafale then your GOVT/Army can go to any length. Who knows if something goes wrong again they blame that Pakistan has inside knowledge of french jets. When you start making excuses and start lying then sky is the limit.

You must be smoking something that i am not at all interested in. It would be better to stick to the topic unless idea is to flamebait and turn this one into trash as well...

Say whatever IAF and Indian People are taken for a ride by Modi.Fake news or not? questions are there? it was not important when published on 13-Feb-19 then 27th Feb happened and all of sudden Su-30s/Mirage 2000i/MiG-21Bison all turn into scrap then Modi comes along and says "Rafale hota to " and now this little info becomes big!

You guys say/believe anything man? it wont hurt, if you guys ask then merely making assumptions...I can understand you have hatred for Modi but thinking an entire nation of 1.3 billion people are some fools, then i must ask, what is your age? Also, it is common sense...what Modi is saying, with Rafale we would have performed better...and he is not wrong...We all know about MMRCA and delays...Even by typical Indian standards, we should have atleast 3 squadrons of Rafale's had delivery started in 2012 onwards......in Technical terms, with Rafale's, we would have better ranged BVR missiles..this doesn't mean rest everything is crap..what it means is that, we would have even more bang...simple...this is election time and opposition has made Rafale an issue..so is Modi's counter...stop giving it any more spin...and once you become a more mature democracy, you will learn, how to ignore political noise....

ELINT/SIGINT is name of the game - SA is name of game..Ask the Argentinians forces what did they feel? they even sell out israel as well post 1967 sold the same mirage to egyptians/libyans stop giving them spares

Its like you conveniently ignore the history! they are sellouts they play both ways...

May be you have misunderstood me...i said they have independent foreign policy...they wont do anything under someone's pressure...even gave you example of Israel and compared that to French. French has sold you Mirages as well...if you would have money and had approached them before us, they would have sold you Rafael's as well..this is business..not backstabbing anyone.....No country would hit their own interests..and this is exactly what happened in 1967 saga...Look, all i am trying to say is that they have independent foreign policy, they will go where there interests are...simple....

 

[deckingraj]

Alright got some explanation...liked this article, so sharing.

https://theprint.in/opinion/if-paki...s-system-has-already-been-compromised/220180/