IAF Shortlists Five Aircraft Manufacturers for Avro Replacement Programme

[Sergi]

Any pic of the AVRO itself ?

 

[Roybot]

Any pic of the AVRO itself ?

HAL Avro 748

 

[Gessler]

The plus side of this tender is that the aircraft that'll be built here shall
be manufactured by Tata!

In the future, i would like to see Tata building C-17 equivalent aircraft indigenously.

They could change the name of the home-build version with modifications, and if we select C-27J, we
could name the home-built version Tata TC-27J!

 

[sancho]

The plus side of this tender is that the aircraft that'll be built here shall
be manufactured by Tata!

In the future, i would like to see Tata building C-17 equivalent aircraft indigenously.

They could change the name of the home-build version with modifications, and if we select C-27J, we
could name the home-built version Tata TC-27J!

You shouldn't confuse things here! TATA is not developing anything, the most they got in the aero field so far is a small civil aircraft, so they are nowhere near to develop something like the C17 alone. TATAs advantage is their higher capability of production and JV absorbing of foreign technology, like any private company. When they can afford it and think it is useful, they simply take over an European company and all the intellectual properties, a government company like HAL, DRDO or ADA can't do that, therefor they will face more problems in developing things on their own.
TATA is manufacturing Sikorsky helicopter cabins under a JV, they are developing FICV under a JV, even most of their older civil vehicles are bassically developed in JV with Mercedes-Benz and similarly, a JV to produce such a utility aircraft will be a benefit for them in the long term, but that doesn't mean they can directly go and do it all on their own.

 

[sancho]

I think we should join hands with Antonov...

On the one side that's true and the fast pace how they upgrade the AN 32 is indeed a good sign, but on the other side a deeper tie to them will not be liked by Russia since they have several issues these days.

There is no need to select a plane in hurry. The best option is to partner an Indian Company with Embraer/Antonov to produce a new system.

Actually there is, the Avros are very old and should be replaced earlier than AN 32s, I hoped a bit for RTA, but it seems they are looking only for civillian versions without a ramp.

MRTA is stuck and is not going to move ahead any time soon unless UAC agrees to share real work in development to Indian partner...

One more reason why MoD should have evaluated An 70, A400 or C-2s that class of aircrafts is way more benefitial thant MRTA.

 

[sancho]

Btw...Kunal Biswas from *** and the MP forum recently posted this pic of the MRTA specboard shown on Defexpo 2012. The interesting point is, that some specs seems to be reduced:

Payload: 18.5t instead of 20t
MTOW: 55 - 60t instead of 68t
Seating: 80 x troops, 75 x paratroopers, 60 x stretchers instead of 150 / 70 / 70

IRKUT Corporation :: Tactical Transport Aircraft :: Tactical Transport Aircraft


IAF initially prefered a smaller aircraft than MRTA to replace Avros and AN 32s, while the Russians insisted on the bigger one. Kind of interesting if it's now gets smaller again, although HAL often presented wrong specboards on such shows.

 

[Agent_47]

History of AVRO,a nice read - AVRO 748 In India - More Than Four Decades On

 

[sancho]

Maks 2007 presentation video of the IL 112:

 

[sancho]

Interesting in this regard:

Minister for Defence and Minister for Defence Materiel – Joint Media Release – New Battlefield aircraft for the Air Force

10 May 2012

Minister for Defence Stephen Smith and Minister for Defence Materiel Jason Clare today announced that the Government had agreed to purchase 10 Alenia C-27J Spartan Battlefield Airlift aircraft at a cost of $1.4 billion...

Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence and Minister for Defence Materiel – Joint Media Release – New Battlefield aircraft for the Air Force


With $140 million dollar each, it's nearly $50 millions more costly than the C130J-30 that IAF procured! The C27J might offer some advantages in tactical roles, but with C130Js and MRTA in the long run, IAF defenitely don't need more of this, but a more cost-effective light utility aircraft to replace the Avros.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Interesting in this regard:



Defence Ministers » Minister for Defence and Minister for Defence Materiel – Joint Media Release – New Battlefield aircraft for the Air Force


With $140 million dollar each, it's nearly $50 millions more costly than the C130J-30 that IAF procured! The C27J might offer some advantages in tactical roles, but with C130Js and MRTA in the long run, IAF defenitely don't need more of this, but a more cost-effective light utility aircraft to replace the Avros.

Sancho you know as well as do that the intial cost for such programs does not reflect the true cost of the air frame but reflects the additional costs of setting up ground infrastructure, spares, training and setting up logistics. As such any subsequent order would be much cheaper as all the factors would already be in place and you'd only be paying for the air frame and nothing more. This is why follow-on orders for C-130J-30 and C-17 for IAF and P-8I for IN will be much cheaper than first deals even if you buy the same quantity.

 

[sancho]

Sancho you know as well as do that the intial cost for such programs does not reflect the true cost of the air frame but reflects the additional costs of setting up ground infrastructure, spares, training and setting up logistics. As such any subsequent order would be much cheaper as all the factors would already be in place and you'd only be paying for the air frame and nothing more. This is why follow-on orders for C-130J-30 and C-17 for IAF and P-8I for IN will be much cheaper than first deals even if you buy the same quantity.

I guess you are refering to flyaway costs and system costs, the $140 millions are system costs, just like th around $90 million we pay for C130Js and no the follow on orders will not be cheaper and come at the same unit price. Operating them will be cheaper, because we will procure spares in higher numbers and will be a benefit in the long run. But then again, the C27J seems to be damn costly to procure and is said to be more costly to operate than comparable class aircrafts as well. If IAF goes the usual way of downselect the L1 in this procurement, it will be hard for the C27J to win this.

 

[sudhir007]

I guess you are refering to flyaway costs and system costs, the $140 millions are system costs, just like th around $90 million we pay for C130Js and no the follow on orders will not be cheaper and come at the same unit price. Operating them will be cheaper, because we will procure spares in higher numbers and will be a benefit in the long run. But then again, the C27J seems to be damn costly to procure and is said to be more costly to operate than comparable class aircrafts as well. If IAF goes the usual way of downselect the L1 in this procurement, it will be hard for the C27J to win this.

But if you look at the deal cost of C-130 which IAF around $1billion

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

Why Can't we invest on Saras for this programs... its fit in the category of 8 to 10 Tons with Speed of 800 Km/H and Range of 2500Km

 

[acetophenol]

Why Can't we invest on Saras for this programs... its fit in the category of 8 to 10 Tons with Speed of 800 Km/H and Range of 2500Km

I dont think that saras and avros fall in the same catagory. Please correct me if i'm wrong