IAF set to get two more warning systems, awaits nod from Cabinet Committee on Security

[Wood]

In democracies armies have to constantly point out real and imagined shortcomings in order to gt access to funding. Civilians are never prepared to allocate money to armies without hard fought internal battles.
That's in a democracy.
Pakistan is not, and its armies have never had to justify their first claim on all national assets. There are no internal battles, as everything in reality is under their ultimate jurisdiction.

IAF was out gunned in BVR, EW and AWACS. Despite the air exercises with Singapore Air Force, the force planners had not realized the gap in capability. Common people were led to believe that SU30 MKI was the best, but when push came to shove - it was outgunned! Was anyone found accountable for this?

 

[Windjammer]

Yeah i know..when i talk to indians here..they think i rode camels back home..
The ignorance and predujce is surprising

Seems democracy and lynching co exists in india and is foreign to any other country

Somehow when the likes of Tej Bhahadur Yadav exercise the so-called democracy, his facebook account seems to to be Dalit in nature.

 

[Wood]

The article says that the PHALCON AWACs were on station and were providing at least some degree of situational awareness during and after the failed Indian Balakot strikes since that is what the IAF used to track PAF fighters. PHALCON AWACs deployment by the IAF also makes complete sense because India had just committed military aggression against Pakistan and would be on high alert expecting some kind of a Pakistani response.

Assuming the above is correct, that would imply that the PAF was able to accomplish its mission despite the IAF's most advanced AWAC's being deployed. The additional AWACS will provide the IAF with the ability to monitor larger parts of the airspace along the India-Pakistan border and LoC for a longer duration of time, but I don't see any major change in the combat environment compared to what the PAF faced after the Balakot strikes.

AWACS will not change the equation by itself. It was reported last May that IAF was looking to acquire Derby. Derby in SU30 and Meteor in Rafale (and Mirage?) could possibly give IAF the first see and shoot capability.

 

[Yasser76]

This is madness. They have 2 Netra Awacs, 3 Phalcon Awacs and now getting 2 A330 AWACS????? Only 7 planes but 3 different types!? 3 types of training, radars, electronics and engines for 7 planes?

With just two of a certain type you cannot even have 24 hour coverage (requires minimum of 3 planes). How much will it cost them to induct 2 of another type of aircraft the IAF do not have?

PAF with 7 Erieye and 4 ZDK-03 can keep 3 in the air at anyone time. IAF barely 1.

 

[ziaulislam]

IAF was out gunned in BVR, EW and AWACS. Despite the air exercises with Singapore Air Force, the force planners had not realized the gap in capability. Common people were led to believe that SU30 MKI was the best, but when push came to shove - it was outgunned! Was anyone found accountable for this?

everyon eknew that su 30 was outgunned by f16s..singapour, taiwan and most of europe knows that while f16 might not be able to comptete in payload range and raw power but is more than a match in A2A BVR combact

 

[Wood]

everyon eknew that su 30 was outgunned by f16s..singapour, taiwan and most of europe knows that while f16 might not be able to comptete in payload range and raw power but is more than a match in A2A BVR combact

The defense ministry and the IAF leadership should have been critically betrayed by the media for this lackluster planning. Perhaps even the Prime minister did not know how unprepared the Air Force was to handle this type of engagement.

 

[Path-Finder]

Can you eleborate with figures ?

all mki are mini AEW&C

 

[Haris Ali2140]

AWACS will not change the equation by itself. It was reported last May that IAF was looking to acquire Derby. Derby in SU30 and Meteor in Rafale (and Mirage?) could possibly give IAF the first see and shoot capability.

This is madness. They have 2 Netra Awacs, 3 Phalcon Awacs and now getting 2 A330 AWACS????? Only 7 planes but 3 different types!? 3 types of training, radars, electronics and engines for 7 planes?

With just two of a certain type you cannot even have 24 hour coverage (requires minimum of 3 planes). How much will it cost them to induct 2 of another type of aircraft the IAF do not have?

PAF with 7 Erieye and 4 ZDK-03 can keep 3 in the air at anyone time. IAF barely 1.

They should go with 737 which is used by P8i otherwise this will create maintenance issues.

 

[TheTallGuy]

NO WE NEED MORE OF J-31 OR J-20 now time for falcons is almost over

"Awaz e Khalq ko naqara -e- Khuda Samjho"

 

[Imran Khan]

The defense ministry and the IAF leadership should have been critically betrayed by the media for this lackluster planning. Perhaps even the Prime minister did not know how unprepared the Air Force was to handle this type of engagement.

if they were not ready why they were threatening pakistan every other day ? including your forces were farting day night since Mumbai attacks .

in fact you under estimated pakistan and your forces +gov was badly needed a reminder . that pakistan is not what you have seen in Bollywood .

 

[nomi007]

operation swift retort was worst nightmare for IAF & its planners.
This operation is one of the best air dog fight in the aviation history which has change the dynamics of air fight.
what PAF learnt from air exercises, & what IAF learnt from air exercises were clear in 27 Feb

 

[Muhammad Omar]

They will still shot down their own planes and helicopters thinking them as Pakistan's F-16

 

[Wood]

if they were not ready why they were threatening pakistan every other day ? including your forces were farting day night since Mumbai attacks .

in fact you under estimated pakistan and your forces +gov was badly needed a reminder . that pakistan is not what you have seen in Bollywood .

I would blame IAF leadership for this more than the government. GOI should not have been led to believe that IAF was up to the task in limited shoot and scoot engagements like this.
I only hope that government has taken IAF to task for the unpreparedness.

 

[Imran Khan]

I would blame IAF leadership for this more than the government. GOI should not have been led to believe that IAF was up to the task in limited shoot and scoot engagements like this.
I only hope that government has taken IAF to task for the unpreparedness.

Lets be honest it was 50.50 game which indians as a whole was thinking ita 1 vs 99 game in indian favor .

 

[aliyusuf]

The Rs 9,000-crore DRDO-IAF joint project has been cleared by the Defence Acquisition Council, and is expected to take three years to complete


View attachment 598243

New Delhi: The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) last month cleared a Rs 9,000 crore joint proposal of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) and the Indian Air Force to purchase two Airbus 330s and convert them into 360-degree long-range capability Airborne Warning and Control Systems (AWACS), senior officials familiar with the development said on Saturday.

The proposal is now before the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) and the entire project is estimated to take three years after the apex committee’s clearance.

“The need for more AWACS was acutely felt post the Balakot air strike, with Pakistan being able to deploy its SAAB AWACS 24×7 in the north and south sectors and India being able to cover the two theatres only for 12 hours each day,” one of the officials cited above said.

The DRDO has also decided to hand over a third Embraer-mounted Airborne Early Warning system to the IAF (Indian Air Force) to further enhance Indian capability in battlefield theatre. The IAF already has two Israeli PHALCON radars mounted on a Russian A-50 platform and two DRDO-developed radars mounted on Embraer platforms.

According to the proposal cleared by the DAC, the Airbus AWACS will be a 50:50 joint venture between the DRDO and the IAF. Once the aircraft are purchased, the DRDO will mount a 360-degree rotor dome radar along with state of the art communication capability to guide the IAF fighters and attack helicopters in future war theatres, one of the officials cited above said.

The AWACS not only tracks the aerial threat, be it a fighter or a missile, but also guides the counter-response. Had it not been for PHALCON AWACS, the Indian response to the February 27 Pakistani counter-strike would have been weak and the IAF would never have known that Wing Commander Abhinandan had downed a Pakistan Air Force fighter code-named Red Mike on the radar. Whether Red Mike was an American F-16 sold by Jordan to Pakistan or any other fighter is still not confirmed.

https://theprint.in/defence/iaf-set...od-from-cabinet-committee-on-security/344861/

This is the lack of capacity for proper planning and tactical vision, which I have been trying to highlight in other posts on other threads, that the IAF top brass lacks.

With potentially a several times the purchasing power for defense equipment, compared to Pakistan, why didn't they envisage this shortcoming about their situational awareness apparatus? They are now rectifying these gaps after the fact.

Which doesn't bode well for them, because they have proven themselves to be logically susceptible to come out (quite likely) short in some other vital aspect of military tactics and contingencies. Their problem is quality and the caliber of the personnel at the top. Just addition of newer assets will not solve their shortcomings because the problem lies in the vision in what assets to get and employ them when and how.

It is my humble opinion, that they may mitigate some of their issues but they will be behind the curve of their adversary's tactical prowess and glossing it over with newer acquisitions is not going to alleviate their problems. They need better people at the top. Difficult, because it seems that a$$ lickers and yes men are getting promoted along the ranks in the Indian armed forces. This is evident from how their top military personnel have been chiming out in the media ... shamelessly promoting the Modi narrative. Seems like professional dignity and integrity is a thing of past in the Indian military.