What's new

IAF plane in pakistan photo shown to COAS USA

A few facts

The BARS PESA on Su-30 has scanning in 300+ km in forward with tracking for multiple targets in 200 km range forwards and 60 km rear. In short, the AC will locate anything flying in Pakistani Air Space even before it can take off in case the Sukhoi was in Pak Airspace. So "lock on" is a joke!!!
That was a chase behind like a dog fight (F-16 hcased back SU-30 to border), dont urge before understanding.

In addition, no one sends their ACs armed. Mig-25s operated by India from Bareilly would regularly fly into Pak Airspace over Islamabad and Lahore and break the sound barrier there to see the response time without any successful interception of the same till date.

Ohghohohohoohohohoohohohh !!!!!!......Are you normal?
May be u have any dream. Dont dreem so much.

It was actually fun to see the young ones in the Bareilly based squadron fly into Pak airspace as a bet and take the silliest of photographs, a policy which was followed on Tibetian front too. So if India does indeed want to test your response, it will go all the way into the airspace, not merely "violate".

Is it any upcoming Indian movie?

Ur quote shows that IAF is so much unprofessional.

Please take this forum serious, we are not here for jokes, prove ur self with references.
 
. .
as if you guys are making alot of sense....jihad,mzubair & so on......i prefer if you guys talk with proofs instead of cheap talk like you make movies you are from bollywood!!
 
.
Yes, but the facts are proved.
Details and photos were shown to US COAS.
Second they had a chance to destroy Su-30, but they didnt coz
1) If they would destroy it, it will surely crash in civilian area (probabily in Lahore) and SU-30 was completly loaded with weapons.
(Crashed plane takes 30 to 40 KM to get on ground coz of its speed)
2) It moved back on very first warning.
3) The ordered were just to push SU-30 back.

SU-30 was locked by F-16, thats a confirmed news.

reportedly it was intercepted in kharian...how it can be fallen in lahore which is approx 170km away:pakistan:
 
.
reportedly it was intercepted in kharian...how it can be fallen in lahore which is approx 170km away:pakistan:

Thanxs
I m not clear abt the location......but I heard from one of the Defence Analyst on GEO who was also Air marshal used to fly mirage that if we would shot down loaded SU-30, It might fall on civilian area and that could be disaster.
He told that IAF jet was in about 4KM inside Pakistan space.

I am trying to find out that interview from youtube.
 
.
I doubt any Su was in Kashmir at that time and even then I doubt they would use a Su. Anyway the burden of proof is on the PAF fan boys not me.

To me its seems just some mis-information to keep morale up.

Regards

You r still in doubt, so remain in doubt and always keep this issue as misinformation. No one cares wt u feel!!!!

:wave: :tongue: :P
 
.
PAF F-16s MLUs are not exactly comparable to Bloc-52 versions AFAIK. Chances of the Current F-16s to lock on the MKI is doubtful, though in WVR the pilot's skill-set also gets into play. However in a BVR scenario the Falcon gets outsmarted. The MKI isn't a purely Russian aircraft, the avionics are a mix of Russian, French, Israeli and Indian gear. For example the HUD is an Israeli Elbit unit. So the radar and other avionics in the F16 doesn't offer any advantage as in case with typical Russian Aircrafts.
Why is a lock-on doubtful? Many, many lock-ons have happened in the region, why is this so hard to swallow? Just because the pride of the IAF was locked-on? Big deal if the HUD is Israeli...PAF flies aircraft with HUDs from US, France and China...what does that mean? Just because its Israeli, is there an inherent assumption of superiority here?
The quality of the N011-M Bars PESA radar is far superior to any other radar in entire asia. India has got its capabilities multifold by replacing the entire data processor. Radar is very important element in any BVR engagement, obviously the F-16 loses out there. One interesting aspect of the Bars is, that it can, through mechanical and electronic steering, detect a target at 60km in the rear quadrant. The radar was initially designed to detect an F-16 at 140-160kms.

Same old arguments over and over. So what if the BARS radar can see out to 140km?...does that serve the purpose for which the flight was intended? Maybe the idea was to probe the PAF air defences and reaction time and not to conduct a sweep of the aircraft in the air at that time for which the BARS' extended range would come handy. Secondly, all of the above numbers are essentially theoretical and at best. They do not take into account defensive ECMs being deployed by the other side (remember the much boasted about "near blindness suffered by the USAF F-15s against the IAF Mig-21s? Do you think that MKI radar is immune to ECM?).

The ECM is also Israeli, when used to its full capability, it will probably perform very well against the likes of Rafaels and Eurofighters, which are better comparisons to the MKIs. The F-16's capabilities were very much kept in mind while designing the avionics and ECM for the MKIs, because the F-16s are very well known to the Israelis, much more than the PAF.

The ECM suite on the MKI is the same as that deployed on the Israeli F-16s. It was designed before the newer versions of ECM suites were available on the US blk-52 F-16s. AIDEWS ALQ-211 being deployed on the PAF F-16s is still undergoing test trials right now and promises more advanced ECM capabilities than what you have on the MKI (simply owing to the fact that it has more updated threat libraries and capabilities than the older generation hardware that is on the MKI and the Israeli aircraft). Secondly, even the older PAF F-16s have pretty decent self-protection suites on them.
So, even in a hypothetical situation wherein a F-16C manages to see the MKI, and as the fight developes, the aircraft would burn fuel fast in avoiding missiles and manoeuvering for shots, the F-16C would get more manoeuverable faster than the Su30 owing to its smaller size. But the MKI can keep firing in missiles and causing the F-16 to evade. If they got to visual range combat then things start to turn very sticky for the F-16. Though it can accelerate faster by now, but it only has a couple of shots and it is fighting an opponent that can point in any direction to lock on and launch its missiles. In the end the F-16 is going to run out of fuel and missiles and find itself in a fight with an ultra manoeuverable and still heavily armed MKI that can still afford to use afterburner that even has a 2nd crew member to help maintain situational awareness.

All of the above is hypothetical and very text bookish. The pros and cons have been discussed by pros and amateurs alike on this forum and many others about how the F-16 can be employed effectively against MKI or other aircraft. Your points about running out of fuel and stores is a fairly invalid point. Pilots are aware of where things are and this is usually not a 1v1 type of a situation. When you come over to the Pakistan side, you will not be dealing with the numbers that your MKI crews are comfortable with. In WVR engagement, the F-16 could go to guns and given the huge size of the MKI, it may not be too hard to kill. MKI could also do the same using the TVCs etc. to its advantage, however the bottom line is that nothing is for certain.

The MKI is more a peer of the EF Typhoon and Rafael, neither of which would have much trouble taking out an F-16.

F-16 holds it own against both of the other given the flight regime you are talking about. Italian air force tested out their F-16As against the Typhoon and in certain flight regimes/altitudes, the F-16s gave the Typhoon as good as they got from it. Secondly, the newer generation of F-16s with JHMCS and BVR weaponry are more than a match for the above types you quote here (The USAF F-16s deployed against the IAF MKIs did not have either, however a USAF pilot told me (personally) that if he had the JHMCS, he would have been lighting up IAF fighters (MKI, Fulcrum and especially the Bison) fairly easily. Effective employment is the key, not just the technology and shiny kit syndrome which afflicts many.
 
. .
A few facts

The BARS PESA on Su-30 has scanning in 300+ km in forward with tracking for multiple targets in 200 km range forwards and 60 km rear. In short, the AC will locate anything flying in Pakistani Air Space even before it can take off in case the Sukhoi was in Pak Airspace. So "lock on" is a joke!!!

In addition, no one sends their ACs armed. Mig-25s operated by India from Bareilly would regularly fly into Pak Airspace over Islamabad and Lahore and break the sound barrier there to see the response time without any successful interception of the same till date.

It was actually fun to see the young ones in the Bareilly based squadron fly into Pak airspace as a bet and take the silliest of photographs, a policy which was followed on Tibetian front too. So if India does indeed want to test your response, it will go all the way into the airspace, not merely "violate".

Mig-25s sortie was reported once as it was detected but obviously due to limitation of altitudes, intercept was not possible. The Mig-25s in use by the IAF were in any case the reconnaissance versions. So arming or not arming is not an issue.

What you did with a mach 2+ aircraft flying at altitudes of 40,000+ was done regularly on our side with slower aircraft flying at very low altitudes. Quite a few stories of going across the border can be shared.

You can test our response only so much when the entire PAF is alerted. Mig-25s were no longer in service and mothballed thus the question did not arise of going in any deeper.
 
.
Hellfire,
Mig25 violated Pakistan Air Space only once before our Nuke Tests..not regularly.
 
.
you are right AM. Its just what you said - a suggestion.

A Su-30 today being employed in forward locales if at all, is employed in a mini-AWAC role in conjunction with the A-50s on a continuous surveillance.

As such, any AC taking off in your airspace is automatically targetted and observed. If at all any intrusion takes place, then be rest assured, your AC will not have WVR engagement. As such, the whole incident stinks.

All theoretical. Once what you describe is operational, then we can give it credence. What A-50, may I ask, was around the time of December to provide EW to the MKIs? Secondly, the point is again the same, if you want to test readiness, what difference does it make as to how things are being tracked? If I want to know how quickly IAF would react to an incursion, I would actually fly either close to or across the IB and then see how quickly the hosts converge. I could have the radars maintaining tracks on all of the hosts as they take off from their bases, but that is not the entire idea.
 
.
Blain 2

No you are quite wrong here.

Ideal choice is/would be Mig-21 "Bison"/SEPECAT Jaguar which have more than decent ECMs and ELINT capacities with a couple of ACs dedicated in the latter role . Jaguar is the AC of choice due to its role being deep strike.

The Su-30 will be employed in AWACS role during any such plan as the more powerful RADAR will be used to plot/detect the threat.

Two different things here. Mig-21 simply does not have the endurance to be conducting sorties at extended ranges. Its a point defence aircraft and nothing more. Jaguar is no different in terms of its avionics. RWR and self-protection in terms of chaff/flares does not mean that you have effective ELINT capabilities. The only ones in the IAF service which have a decent ECM/ELINT suit are the MKIs (even has a variation of DRFM).

As I have said, you send the aircraft which has the greatest capability to snoop around all the while ensuring that it can extricate itself out of a tough situation. Jaguar and Mig-21 Bison simply don't cut it. The upgraded Jaguars in service with the IAF (Darin II) have nothing but IFF, RWR for self protection and definitely nothing for performing ELINT role. Now I am not debating that IAF could have sent anything, however currently the only reported incursions of the IAF have involved the MKI, M2K (with fulcrums providing back-up).
 
.
Well from my perspective reading through the articles it seems the Indians attempted a standard probing exercise which had a obvious political dimension if you factor in the timing.

The fact that they "supposedly" made it into Pakistani airspace on what would otherwise be classified as being a highly monitored/patrolled air corridor should be subtle message in of itself and I find hard to believe.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Lahore is major civilian city that close to y'alls border. Those sorties should have been downed or at the very least engaged in any RoE.

Back in the late 70's early 80's before we were aware of John Walker's betrayal he handed the Soviets our M.O that we regularly probed their far-east/arctic early warning Radar nets which tragically ended up with the downing of KAL007 Jumbo just before it enter Kamchatka's airspace. Hopefully we don't see repeat of that ~30yrs later.
 
Last edited:
.
aw come on! he is a smart guy!

Yes but i'm really amazed with his posts in this thread, I mean..where's the logic?
Perhaps I should've refrained from saying what I said, I was agitated.
 
.
I was a PAF pilot and indian SU30 MKI the crown jewels of the IAF was in PAK AIR SPACE and has claimed it was in pakistani air space wat would I DO.

This post claims a lock on

KNOCK it OUT OF THE SKY take your revenge for atlantic incident several years ago.

And acheive a huge pyscological blow on IAF.

" CANT UNDERSTAND HOW YOU CAN GET A LOCK ON SU30MKI" the PESA radar in SU30MKI is the best radar in South Asia can see you at 150km away

Of course you have to understand The difference between the real world and fantasy worlds where The MKI can take on the death star.
This is not a game...shooting down a Indian aircraft at the time would have likely provoked a war. but the lock on would have been good enough. a bit like Hull photos the subs in the cold war used to take.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom