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IAF Offers To Spend $12B To Break Monopoly

Abingdonboy

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The Indian government, acting on Air Force demands, has offered to spend $12 billion to encourage private firms to establish an aircraft manufacturing facility -- a move that would break Hindustan Aeronautics Limited's monopoly on aircraft manufacturing after years of delays on several projects.

Specifically, the Indian government has offered an advance order for the homemade light combat aircraft (LCA) Mark-2, a Defence Ministry source said.

The offer was conveyed to senior private sector executives during several meetings with MoD officials in the last month, the source said. India's private defense majors, Tata Group, Mahindra & Mahindra and Larsen and Toubro, are the most capable of setting up an additional military aircraft plant, either independently or in partnership with overseas firms.

None of the executives who participated in the meeting would comment on whether they would consider building such a facility.

Madhukar Vinayak Kotwal, president, Heavy Engineering of Larsen & Toubro, said, "Since this [building of an additional facility] is a matter currently under discussion at various levels in the government as well as in industry associations, we would like to refrain from giving any comments at this stage."

The LCA, developed by Bangalore-based Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA), a laboratory of the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), is nearly 20 years behind schedule. The first order for 40 of the Mark-1 version of the aircraft has been given to state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL). The final operational clearance is expected to be granted in 2015, after which the aircraft can go into production.

The Indian Air Force has a future requirement for only the next-generation LCA Mark-2, which would be powered by the higher thrust General Electric GE-414 engine. But the aircraft is still in the development stage and is not expected to be ready for production before 2017-18. The Air Force has a requirement for 250 LCA Mark-2s, which the government estimates would be covered by the $12 billion advance order.

The Air Force has demanded establishment of an additional aircraft facility to break the monopoly of HAL, India's sole military aircraft manufacturer, and has complained of delays in delivery of aircraft.

HAL, with annual sales of $2.3 billion for the year that ended March 31, has produced more than 50 types of aircraft and helicopters, and has been designated as the production agency for the $12 billion Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft program, in which Dassault's Rafale has been short-listed as the favored aircraft.

"It is absolutely essential to set up an additional military aircraft facility here, as HAL is overloaded for the next 10 years and has become too unwieldy," defense acquisition expert Miral Suman said.

Vivek Rae, former director general (acquisition) in the MoD, said, "India sorely needs aircraft manufacturing capability in the private sector. We cannot afford to put all eggs in the HAL basket."

Subhash Bhojwani, retired Air Force air marshal, agreed an additional manufacturing facility is needed, but said HAL should be made more commercial.

"HAL is into the design and contemporary manufacture of fighters, transports, trainers and helicopters, as well as avionics and engines," he said. "It is possibly the only company in the world to be so diversified. However, while this may sound good in a book of world records, it isn't good as a commercial model."

Defense analyst Amit Cowshish, a retired Defence Ministry bureaucrat, said the objective should be "not to create an entity that could compete with HAL but to have additional capability in India to manufacture aircraft so that the requirement, both of the military and civil sectors, could be met in a more cost-effective manner and in shorter time frames. Of course, competition would help in improving HAL's efficiency."

Sujith Haridas, deputy director general of India's industry lobbying agency, the Confederation of Indian Industry, said, "It is very much desired to have an additional manufacturing facility, but one should not ignore that it takes several decades of consistent investment and efforts to create a mammoth system integrator like HAL."

Would It Build Fighters?
Analysts disagree about whether the new facility should be used to build fighter aircraft

India's private sector is able to set up such a facility, and could acquire the capability to build the LCA Mark-2 over time, but it could be a challenge, Cowshish said.

"LCA is a program in the pipeline for more than three decades. HAL and DRDO have worked hard on it, and the final operational clearance is expected sometime later this year," he said. "To bring in a new manufacturing agency at this stage may not be a very good idea. Though it is possible to pass on the technology to the private industry for manufacturing the aircraft, selecting such an agency may turn out to be a [technically] tricky affair."

Defense analyst Rahul Bhonsle said, "Setting up a new military aircraft facility is no doubt a Herculean task. But the new facility will be looking primarily at system integration."

But Muthumanikam Matheswaran, retired air marshal and adviser (for strategy) to the chairman of HAL, said no private-sector aircraft facility could build the LCA.

"There appears to be a misconception that if ADA wishes, the LCA can be produced by the private sector. Nothing can be further from truth. The LCA cannot be produced by anybody without the major involvement of HAL."

Defense News Mobile - India Offers To Spend $12B To Break Monopoly



I don't know how reliable this new is - seems like a little too good to be true really.


@sancho @Dillinger @Gessler @sandy_3126
 
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I would welcome this, though the problem with this would be that HAL and other government run agencies would be hesitant toward such deal. Since it would mean less funds going their way. There is also the issue that the private firm have very little to no experience in such thing, and would HAL be willing to share the tech. know how if things go through.

Does anyone know why the private firm are so successful in the Naval part.
 
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:woot:!!!
private or not,this new facility will enhance production capacity,,,lets hope its true.
@Abingdonboy
no one else is reporting this
 
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I would welcome this, though the problem with this would be that HAL and other government run agencies would be hesitant toward such deal. Since it would mean less funds going their way.
True but this is the way foreword and if directed to HAL would have no choice. India has privatised many sectors so whilst there is hesitation if the will is there from the politicians it is more than doable. The first step is always the hardest....


here is also the issue that the private firm have very little to no experience in such thing,
Well everyone has to start somewhere but I have no doubt that giants such as TATA, L&T and Mahindra have the means to excel if the conditions are right.

TATA production line for the S-92 cabin:

0c2b2c8c7b6c6ae86b8b33722c833176.jpg




05710662da4bbe439c643a7a918adebf.jpg





HAL's ALH production line:

93daf52ca61685f89d8888ff60b7d62a.jpg



This move would even give HAL a kick up the a$$ and I bet you they'd start performing at a more impressive rate.



Does anyone know why the private firm are so successful in the Naval part.
This comes directly from the IN's simply outstanding project management and foreword thinking. They are able to work with industry and shape industry is thus able to shape their offerings around the IN's demands.

Anyway let's not get carried away. I'm skeptical to say the least...
 
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True but this is the way foreword and if directed to HAL would have no choice. India has privatised many sectors so whilst there is hesitation if the will is there from the politicians it is more than doable. The first step is always the hardest....



Well everyone has to start somewhere but I have no doubt that giants such as TATA, L&T and Mahindra have the means to excel if the conditions are right.

TATA production line for the S-92 cabin:

View attachment 110118



View attachment 110119




HAL's ALH production line:

View attachment 110120


This move would even give HAL a kick up the a$$ and I bet you they'd start performing at a more impressive rate.




This comes directly from the IN's simply outstanding project management and foreword thinking. They are able to work with industry and shape industry is thus able to shape their offerings around the IN's demands.

Anyway let's not get carried away. I'm skeptical to say the least...
Will see how it goes...
 
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not a good move

this will instead of giving competition to HAL will be morale breaker for them

After all these years toiling and taking abuse form everyone just when the time came to reap rewards they are being kicked aside ?

the 1st thing is the Govt issued RFI for replacement for Dorniers - 56 AC someting about more than 5000 crores deal exclusively for pvt cos

Nobody came forward

the govt / IAF wants to give advance money to PVT cos but they dont give advance to HAL for setting up mfg plant

anyways 1 thing is clear

the GOvt is shoving Tejas Mk2 down the IAF real hard

also 12 billion for 250 Tejas - 22+ billion for 126 rafale

so in 22+ billion we can have some

500+ Tejas (65% of our current Air Force nos)
or
A combination of

Super Su30mki + Super Su34MKi + Tejas Mk1 + TejasMk2

which will give tremendous capability to IAF and Increase the No of Sqd rapidly
 
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I would welcome this, though the problem with this would be that HAL and other government run agencies would be hesitant toward such deal. Since it would mean less funds going their way. There is also the issue that the private firm have very little to no experience in such thing, and would HAL be willing to share the tech. know how if things go through.

Does anyone know why the private firm are so successful in the Naval part.

The Govt. will sell some of the shares of HAL or may sell some units to Pvt. sector and because of that the Pvt. Cos. will save time to do the infrastructure making time and also absorb the the tech. inside those units. Also they will improve those tech by having partnership with foreign cos. But which foreign will agree to it will be seen!!

But it is inevitable as one of my relative works in HAL (Sunabeda) and he says people from different Cos. have started visiting their units and inquiring about targets, assets, liabilities, orders etc. So the day is not far enough.

Yes, about techs. once they set up their units, retd. personnel of HAL, NAL, ISRO, DRDO and some disgruntled employees will join them and train the new younger generation of Pvt. Cos.

BTW this should be also done with some of the OFB units, Last I heard there were 39 OFB units scattered accorss the country and we have only 20 days ammunition in our hand!!.....

@Abingdonboy @halupridol @sandy_3126
 
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For God sake . Rafale will be signed by this year end ! Leave it alone . And this is nothing to do with morale breaker even if so we dont give a damn about it . As this is need of an hour . We need to produce LCA in large nubers , And we need to produce Rafale in faster phase . We cannot expect HAL to do all these . They fully packed for the next 20 years with Su 30 mki , super sukoi , upgrades for Jags and sukois , Tejas MK 1 / 2 , Future PakFa , AMCA !!! ???? LCH , ALH , more more !

PVT players needed . In huge numbers ... It will change the face of IAF second to NONE !


who says they are packed for next 20 years

ever heard about investments
if you give them money they will come up with capacity

IAF is ready to pay 18000 crore advance money for rafale

but did not give even 1000 crore to HAL to setup production line for Tejas not even for development of Mk2

it was navy who funded 1000 crore to HAL for tejas Mk2 project

Bloody Imported Air force
 
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Very good news if true. I wonder if HAL would be limited to produce Tejas, MKIs and FGFA while the private line
makes the Rafales & in future, possibly AMCA.
 
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The Govt. will sell some of the shares of HAL or may sell some units to Pvt. sector and because of that the Pvt. Cos. will save time to do the infrastructure making time and also absorb the the tech. inside those units. Also they will improve those tech by having partnership with foreign cos. But which foreign will agree to it will be seen!!

But it is inevitable as one of my relative works in HAL (Sunabeda) and he says people from different Cos. have started visiting their units and inquiring about targets, assets, liabilities, orders etc. So the day is not far enough.

Yes, about techs. once they set up their units, retd. personnel of HAL, NAL, ISRO, DRDO and some disgruntled employees will join them and train the new younger generation of Pvt. Cos.

BTW this should be also done with some of the OFB units, Last I heard there were 39 OFB units scattered accorss the country and we have only 20 days ammunition in our hand!!.....

@Abingdonboy @halupridol @sandy_3126


so in short govt will sell stake to pvt co

pvt co will then invite foreign co ans then sell a stake at higher price making a killing and giving bribes to govt (party)

o HAL will become a foreign co and take profits out of india

very nice scam
 
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so in short govt will sell stake to pvt co

pvt co will then invite foreign co ans then sell a stake at higher price making a killing and giving bribes to govt (party)

o HAL will become a foreign co and take profits out of india

very nice scam

Ummm...Not as simple as that........
 
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ok false flag alert !!! And who invested money into HAL ? Owner called HAL lol ...


govt gave 500 crore
HAl came up with 3500 crore from internal accruals
total 4000 crores for tejas manufacturing line

Nave gave Rs 1000 crores for develoment of Tejas Mk2
 
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