IAF No Induction of Women

[DaRk WaVe]

Why she need to produce baby, if she is a Fighter pilot?

Sweete you Rule

 

[FlyingEagle]

Sweete you Rule

P

This is a lame excuse of IAF and with regret also of PAF

 

[ice_man]

MEN do not have fallopian tubes !

I wish u were a bit more aware of our equipment !

whatever veins need to be blocked....even if suggested the muallhs & pandits will go crazy followed by most men in our society...due to the fact that women is always thought of as inferior. so yes even if suggested it will create an outcry like no other!

 

[ambidex]

How many countries employee female Air fighters? Thanks in advance.

 

[Kinshuk]

Why will they leave?



..and what if the enemy is ruthless? Can't be any worse than what you did to your own mother on your way into this world?

If you have problem understanding then first litrerate yourself. Pregnancy issue is just one of them. Please be advised India also has many social problems, also our culture is different from that of west. If a women gets pregnant then there is no alternative, they will be granted maternity leave for the time being, but after having a child, its not like western world that you can expect someone else to look after him/her. I very clearly mentioned it takes millions of dollars to train a pilot, and if his or her services are not utilised to the fullest level then its a lame investment.

bold part.

Ohhh! no I didn't do anything ruthless to my mother. I didn't rape her, I didn't beat her, I didn't play any rampage over her.

Talk sense next time..

And if you are happy just getting thanked from many of your mates then please don't bother to reply me again, as I won't bother to read it, if sense less.

 

[Kinshuk]

Great reply....This talk of women are weak or bilogical factors all is rubbish....Have a set standards for entry to armed forces...Don't relax them for women and if someone is fulfilling your criteria than irrespective of sex he/she should be recruited....

P.S : You are not recruiting kids...They are all adults and if women has no problems in facing the realities of combat(including the kind of torture they can face if captured) than what the heck is anyone else problem...

It's Rubbish???

Please backup your statement. That women are biologically at par with men.

Emotional Ejaculation..

I am not against it. But Please check out in what condition we recieved the dead body of our very own Ajay Ahuja from Pakistan. His body parts were cut, well I won't go any further. BTW I am not attacking Pakistan so please don't attack my post taken in that sense, It might be the same for the Pakistani soldier taken hostage.

Authorities are not idiots that they are not allowing women. It was discussed in very details on CNN IBN and NDTV 24/7.

And for your info, if they are not kids, then why the standards set for women are way less than what it is for Men, Don't just post your emotional ejaculation without knowing "A" about armed force selection..

Kids!! lol..

Benchmarks are way ahead for men than women.. If women are not weak then why not have same standards....

 

[Awesome]

I hear that excuse that if she is taken prisoner then what... IF she gets killed or raped, then thats all in the line of duty. Shame on the rapists, and glory to her.

PAF has started recruitment and it keeps going on and off, due to costs concerns. But in the long run, there is no choice but to employ them as equal citizens of this country, they have the same rights to patriotism and service as much as we do.

You must grant maternity leave. As a fighter pilot, she'd miss out on promotions and missions if she is absent for too long from duty. How can men in the service have children? Oh yes, they go off on duty while their women take care of the kids. So why can't their husbands do the same for the country?

Ultimately everything has one answer. We're just too backward to openly utilize all options.

 

[Kinshuk]

Shame on the rapist?

That's it?

What about the dignity of the girl? Its not as easy as it sounds. Shame shame and done.

EMO girl, you should be able to answer this, Good girls should get equal right, and you can lay your life for the country. But combat is not the only way to
show your patriotism.

How would you take it if taken hostage by India and you go through all that I mentioned.

Coming in this world from my mother is not ruthless, Shame on all you guys who think that.

Indian culture is very different, and I think it is same in pakistan aswell, Family plays a very important role in defining the value and the value system.

 

[Kinshuk]

I hear that excuse that if she is taken prisoner then what... IF she gets killed or raped, then thats all in the line of duty. Shame on the rapists, and glory to her.

PAF has started recruitment and it keeps going on and off, due to costs concerns. But in the long run, there is no choice but to employ them as equal citizens of this country, they have the same rights to patriotism and service as much as we do.

You must grant maternity leave. As a fighter pilot, she'd miss out on promotions and missions if she is absent for too long from duty. How can men in the service have children? Oh yes, they go off on duty while their women take care of the kids. So why can't their husbands do the same for the country?
Ultimately everything has one answer. We're just too backward to openly utilize all options.

Couldn't have agreed more. But yes we are backward, and these factors are to be kept in mind during decision making.

 

[Kinshuk]

why do i have to repeat every where that women have proved their capabilities in combat despite all that BS about 'biological factor'
some people are just to worked up at seeing Women been 'superior' to them

Achha??? I really need to know there Air combat worthyness Please just give me a link and I will keep my mouth shut....

And my mom was the happiest person in this world when I came. It was not ruthless..

 

[Awesome]

Shame on the rapist?

That's it?

What about the dignity of the girl? Its not as easy as it sounds. Shame shame and done.

She gave the ultimate sacrifice for the country! Her dignity is raised!

Indian culture is very different, and I think it is same in pakistan aswell, Family plays a very important role in defining the value and the value system.

Military culture I have always believed to be that they are heroes that go into battle forsaking it all.

That is why while the MEN are coming up with these excuses, the WOMEN are regularly protesting this seclusion from the military. At least from Pakistan several women have come on this forum and blasted this double standard already.

 

[Kinshuk]

She gave the ultimate sacrifice for the country! Her dignity is raised!


Military culture I have always believed to be that they are heroes that go into battle forsaking it all.

That is why while the MEN are coming up with these excuses, the WOMEN are regularly protesting this seclusion from the military. At least from Pakistan several women have come on this forum and blasted this double standard already.

Orange= Ya but.. Well I agree but on the other hand her life if she survives? Well I know there's an answer to everything.. I am 60% convinced.


Military culture?

I have lived for 10 years in Noida defence sector with all these uniform personnel.

They are awesome, yes they are ready to sacrifice their life and they are the real heros.

But Air force is a different case mate. 12 million to train a pilot and then they leave for commercial ACs? Is this new in India? Commercial pilots are payed way way higher than IAF pilots. And IAF is facing this problem or iteration rate being very high.

Prove me wrong I will stop replying.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Achha??? I really need to know there Air combat worthyness Please just give me a link and I will keep my mouth shut....

Now listen to me, promise me you will keep your mouth SHUT

if that ain't enough i can give you MORE

Night Witches​

One cold spring day in 1943, two junior lieutenants, Tamara Pamyatnykh and Raisa Surnachevskaya, were on a routine patrol over a Soviet railway junction. Suddenly they were confronted by an armada of 42 German bombers - they reacted immediately.

Diving with the sun behind them, the women opened fire on the centre of the Junkers formation. Each pilot shot down two enemy planes. Tamara ran out of ammunition and was going to ram another bomber with her airplane, when her wing was shot off. She bailed out and landed in a field.

Men and women civilians rushed over to help. "They undid the parachute straps and offered me a glass of vodka, which I refused", she recalls. "Nobody couldn't understand why the brave lad who had taken on a Nazi squadron wouldn't drink vodka!"


Then Tamara took off her helmet and the astonished crowd saw the dashing young aviator was a woman.

Tamara is among the surviving veterans Lucy Ash has tracked down in Moscow and southern Russia. The Soviet Union was the first nation to allow women to fly combat missions. Women pilots in other countries flew military aircraft in support roles and some were fired on by enemies. But only Soviet women pilots could fire back; only Soviet women dropped bombs and fought in air battles.

Celebrity influence

Why? Partly because a young woman called Marina Raskova had the ear of Joseph Stalin. Raskova was a national celebrity, a Soviet Amelia Earhart. Before the war, she and two women co–pilots made a record breaking, non stop flight from Moscow to the Russian Far East. Just days after the Germans attacked the USSR in 1941, Raskova persuaded Stalin to establish three female units grouped into separate fighter, dive bomber and night bomber regiments. She trained her personnel as pilots, navigators, maintenance and ground crews, and deployed them to devastating effect.

Nadezhda Popova, now a great grandmother, was a pilot in the 46th Night Bombers Guards Regiment. "The Germans called us Night Witches because we never let them get any sleep", she says. "They spread a rumour that we had been injected with some unknown chemicals that enabled us to see so clearly in the pitch black.!"

Every May 2nd she joins the surviving members of her regiment oputside the Bolshoi theatre in Moscow to reminisce about their daring raids in flimsy bi-planes without radios or even any parachutes.

Initially, at least, the women struggled to gain the respect of their male comrades. One general at the front complained bitterly about being sent a "a bunch of girlies" with such high pitched voices, that he felt he was in a kindergarten. But the women soon proved him wrong and showed their valour even if they did like to decorate their planes with flowers and use their navigation pencils to colour their lips and eyebrows.

On a more sombre note, the number one fear expressed by nearly all female aircrew was what might occur if they were ever captured alive by the Germans. Galina Beltsova, a navigator with the Dive Bombers regiment says: "All of us were provided with one extra bullet and if I could see I was being circled by the enemy of course I could take out my pistol and shoot myself – as a last resort."

Lucy talks to these formidable women veterans who played such a crucial role in the skies over Stalingrad and elsewhere on the Eastern Front. She discovers that they have not only motivated a new generation of female pilots but that their bravery has also inspired tributes from American airwomen, comic book artists and even a Dutch heavy metal band.

Full documentary is here : BBC World Service - Documentaries - Night Witches

Thousands of Russian women and girls courageously fought for their Rodina (Motherland), serving with the Voyenno-Vozdushniye Sily (Air Forces, in Russian). In 1942, three air regiments were formed from female volunteers:
The 586th Women's Fighter Regiment (initially equipped with Yakovlyev YaK-1s and later YaK-7Bs)
The 587th Women's Day Bomber Regiment (flying Petlyakov Pe-2 2-engined bombers)
The 588th Women's Night Bomber Regiment, the famous "Night Witches" (flying Polikarpov Po-2 biplanes)
Many other women also served integrated with men with other aviation units. For example, in 1944, 1,749 girls served with Zabaikalsky Front, 3,000 women and girls served with the Far East 10th Air Army, 437 women served with the 4th Air Army of the Second Belorussian Front that comprised the crack 46th Guards Women Air Regiment that comprised 237 women-officers, 862 sergeants, 1,125 enlisted women and 2,117 auxiliaries. They also served flying and as gunners in the famous Il-2 and Il-2M3 Shturmovik tank busters, the "Flying Bathtub".

Women-pilots of female air regiments engaged in dogfights, cleared the way for the advancing infantry and supported them in ground support missions. The fighter pilots of the all-women 586th IAP (Russian abbreviation for Fighter Aviation Regiment, same as Fighter Air Regiment) flew a total of 4,419 sorties (per pilot) and participated in more than 125 separate air battles, in which they massed a total of 38 confirmed kills. That is, the sorties when the enemy was actually encountered.

Sexism in the V-VS was high initially, male pilots refusing to fly with women as "wingmen", or fly airplanes that had been repaired or serviced by women mechanics and ground crew. But the demonstrated, and often superior, courage and great skill of these female soldiers proved their better than average competence to fullfil their duty. The USSR highly praised the combat deeds of female pilots: thousands won orders and medals. 29 won titles of Hero of the Soviet Union. 23 of these went to the Night Witches.

Sabiha Gökçen​

​

Sabiha Gökçen is the world's first female fighter pilot. Born in Bursa, Turkey in 1913, she was orphaned early in life. Fortune began to smile on her in 1925, when the founder and President of the new Republic of Turkey, Kemal Atatürk, took her under his wing. He gave her the name Gökçen ("related to the sky") and brought her to Ankara for more education. She completed her education at Üsküdar Girls College in Istanbul. In 1935, with war clouds over the horizon in Europe, the Turkish Aeronautical Association opened the country's first civil aviation school. Atatürk participated in the opening ceremony and named the school Türkkusu (Turkish Bird).

He enrolled Gökçen as the first female student. It was a revolutionary move in an Islamic country. Following initial glider training, she attended advanced training in the USSR with seven male Turkish students. All hoped to teach flying. Gökçen was an apt pilot and within a year returned to Turkey bearing her glider instructor's diploma. In 1936, she went on to military flight school in Eskisehir. Gökçen endured more than a year of rigorous basic and advanced training. Successful again, she earned her pilot wings in 1937. Flying extensively in French-built Breguet XIX and American-built Curtiss Hawk biplanes, Gökçen earned a place in history as the world's first combat-ready female pilot.

In 1937, she took part in maneuvers in Turkish Thrace and on the country's Aegean coast, and in combat operations in Eastern Anatolia. In the Dersim Operation, the First Air Regiment moved to Elazig to provide close air support for Turkish ground forces combating a foreign-provoked rebellion. Gökçen and other male pilots flew daily shifts. Her performance was superior, both as a pilot and observer. For this she was awarded the Turkish Aeronautical Association's first "Jeweled Medal." In 1938, she was invited to tour several nations of southeastern Europe. On 16 June, she began a 5-day tour flying a Vultee-V bomber. From Istanbul, she flew to Athens and Thessalonika in Greece, and then to Sofia, Bulgaria.

At her next stop, in Belgrade, the Chief of Yugoslavia's General Staff awarded her the "White Eagle," the country's highest military decoration. Her last stop was Bucharest, Romania. On this tour, she had flown nearly 2000 miles over the rugged mountains of the Balkans. Next, Gökçen was named Chief Instructor at the Türkkusu Flight School, where 3 years before she had earned her glider wings. In the 1950's, Gökçen made two trips to the United States, and in 1990 she was invited to India. She retired from active flying in 1964, having flown a long list of aircraft from France, Great Britain, Germany, the United States, and Turkey. The Fédéderation Aéronautique Internationale awarded Gökçen its Gold Medal in 1991 for outstanding achievements in aviation.

She is a member of many international associations, including the Ninety-Nines, the premier organization of American female aviators since 1925. There are statues of her at Türkkusu and at Headquarters, Turkish Air Force. The Turkish Aeronautical Association published her book, My Life Following in Atatürk's Footsteps, on the 100th anniversary of Atatürk's birth.
Welcome to the Air Command and Staff College Gathering of Eagles Homepage!

​

Lilya was born in Moscow in August 18, 1921. Lilya was her nickname, as her actual name was Lidiya. She was regarded by all as a "strikingly beautiful woman", which helped earn her public appreciation and, added to her success as a fighter pilot, served the propaganda ministry well.

She began her service in the all-woman 586th IAP, where she flew mostly defense missions from January to August 1942. In August she was posted to "male" squadrons because of her merits. The first was the 286th Fighter Division (IAD), then to the 437 IAP, which had recently been equipped with the new Lavochkin La-5. With this unit she got her first 2 air victories in September 13, 1943. She was sent as an attachment to the female flight of the 287 IAD, and served briefly in the 9th Guards IAP.

In the end of January, 1943, she was transferred to the 296th along with 2 other skilled women fighter pilots. On February 17, 1943, she was awarded the Order of the Red Banner. Two days later she was promoted to Junior Lieutenant and soon after to Senior Lieutenant.

On each side of her YaK-1's cockpit she painted a white lily, often confused for a rose—hence the nickname. She was so fond of flowers, that she often picked wildflowers and carried them aloft on her missions. According to her mechanic, Inna Pasportnikova, she had a postcard with yellow roses in her instrument panel. The white rose on the fuselage became famous among the Germans, who knew better than to try to dogfight the familiar YaK-1, and usually tried to make good their escape before Litvyak got too close.

Litvyak was injured 3 times during her combat tour. All three injuries occured during the Spring and Summer of 1943, a period of intense combat activity. The first time was on March 15, the same day that she shot down a Junkers Ju-88 bomber, but got hit by their escorting Me-109s (she continued to fly and bagged another Ju-88!). She managed to land at her base, and passed out and she remained in a hospital until May.

When she came back, the 296th IAP had been renamed the 73 Guards IAP for their exploits in battle. She was wounded again in combat in July 16 and 18 (the death-date of her comrade Katya Budanova). Both times she landed in German-ocuppied territory, but got back to base on foot the first time, and was rescued by another fighter pilot who landed after her the second.

She was repeatedly successful in flying missions, although was finally killed in action over Orel, while escorting a unit of Shturmoviks returning from an attack in August 1, 1943. Because of her notoriety amongst the Germans, eight Messerschmitt Me-109's concentrated solely on Lilya's YaK-1, and it took all eight of them to finally shoot down the "White Rose of Stalingrad". Her body and aircraft were not found during the war, but a marble monument, with 12 gold stars—one for each enemy plane that she had shot down—was erected in her memory in Krasy Luch, in the Donetsk region. Litvyak had completed 168 missions, and had 3 shared victories in addition to her personal twelve. She was 22 years old when she died.

Note: Some sources claim that she died in September the 1st, and not August. As with most details from the Great Patriotic War, 46 years of censorship has made it hard to be sure about anything.

Her remains were found at last in 1979, buried under her fallen YaK-1's wing, near the village of Dmitriyevka. Ten years later her body was recovered for an official burial; and in May 5, 1990 she was posthumously conferred the title of Hero of the Soviet Union by then Premier Mikhail Gorbachov.

​

Captain Katya Budanova flew with Lilya Litvyak in the 296 IAP, later renamed 73 Gv. IAP (Guards IAP). In the skies over Stalingrad, she once fought with a wingman against 12 enemy aircraft, ALONE against 13, and once with 3 other fighters against 19!

She was killed in combat in July 18, 1943, when 2 Messerschmitt Me-109s attacked her. Budanova dispensed with one, but the second managed to shoot her down and escape the battle with a damaged plane. She had a final score of 11 confirmed kills. The archivist of 586 IAP, Yekaterina Polunina, accounts that "she downed over 20 aircraft".

​

Leutenant Natalya Myeklin was a pilot for the Night Witches. She joined the Night Witches in 1942 when she was 19 years old, and flew 840 missions in three years.

She survived the war a very condecorated veteran, with medals including the Order of Lenin and the Soviet highest honor, the Hero of the Soviet Union gold star.

​

On June 22, 1941, Hitler's Wehrmacht invaded the Soviet Union, and Operation Barbarossa was under way.

By November, the German army was just 19 miles from Moscow. Leningrad was under siege, three million Russians had been taken prisoner, a large part of the Red Army was wiped out and the air force was grounded. The situation looked hopeless.

In the summer of 1941, Marina Raskova, a record-breaking aviatrix, organized the 588th night bomber squadron - composed entirely of women, from the mechanics to the navigators, pilot and officers.

Most of them were around 20 years old. The 588th began training in Engels, a small town north of Stalingrad. In a few months, the women were taught what it takes most people four years to learn.

One June 8, 1942, three planes took off on the first mission. The target: the headquarters of a German division. The raid was successful, but one aircraft was lost. The 588th fought non-stop for months, flying 15 to 18 missions a night. "It was a miracle we didn't lose more aircraft", recalls Nadia Popova. "Our planes were the slowest in the air force. They often came back riddled with bullets, but they kept flying."

On August 2, 1942, her plane crashed in the Caucasus. She and her navigator were found alive a few days later. The winter of 1942 was brutal, with the temperature plummeting to -54o F during the battle of Stalingrad. Parts of the aircraft were so cold that they ripped the skin off of anyone who touched them. By January 1943, the women of the 588th were worn out. Sleepless nights, constant stress, the loss of friends and sexual harassment from male colleagues took their toll. Women in the 588th flew up to 500 night raids!
From the battle of Stalingrad to the fall of Berlin, the regiment made 24,000 combat flights and dropped 23,000 tons of bombs. It was awarded the Soviet Union's highest collective military honor. Years after the war, Nadia Popova said, "At night sometimes, I look up into the dark sky, close my eyes and picture myself as a girl at the controls of my bomber and I think, 'Nadia, how on earth did you do it?"

Raskova a famous Soviet navigator who set many records during the 1930s. She and two others were the first women to be awarded the Hero of the Soviet Union medal in 1938 when they completed a dangerous Moscow to Komsomolsk-on-Amur (in the Russian Far East) flight in the 2-engined plane "Rodina", that broke the international women's distance record.

Her influence and the military need for more human resources made it possible for her to be able to persuade Stalin to allow her to organize three regiments of women flyers. Already a folk heroine, and a Major in the Soviet Air Force by 1941, Raskova was the logical choice to recruit, interview, and oversee the training of the women aviators, which she did magnificently. Being a Hero of the Soviet Union, she gave great inspiration to her trainees and passed her vast aviation experience to this new generation of Soviet female flyers.

EMO girl, you should be able to answer this, Good girls should get equal right, and you can lay your life for the country. But combat is not the only way to
show your patriotism.

you are no one to define the way i will serve my country, well as for that 'dignity of a girl' don't force me to say something that will hit you some where 'sensitive', there are already enough people on this forum who will make my comments an 'ego' problem so better shut up with your 'dignity crap'
now call me a 'Nazi Feminist' or what ever, I am proud to be a feminist

 

[mjnaushad]

Those who think women cant fly or they are bad investment.

Records and achievements
Woman's world altitude record: 14,000 ft (1922)
First woman to fly the Atlantic (1928)
Speed records for 100 km (and with 500 lb (230 kg) cargo) (1931)
First woman to fly an autogyro (1931)
Altitude record for autogyros: 15,000 ft (1931)
First person to cross the U.S. in an autogyro (1932)
First woman to fly the Atlantic solo (1932)
First person to fly the Atlantic twice (1932)
First woman to receive the Distinguished Flying Cross (1932)
First woman to fly non-stop, coast-to-coast across the U.S. (1933)
Woman's speed transcontinental record (1933)
First person to fly solo between Honolulu, Hawaii and Oakland, California (1935)
First person to fly solo from Los Angeles, California to Mexico City, Mexico (1935)
First person to fly solo nonstop from Mexico City, Mexico to Newark, New Jersey (1935)
Speed record for east-to-west flight from Oakland, California to Honolulu, Hawaii (1937

Amelia Earhart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DaRk WaVe]

That is why while the MEN are coming up with these excuses, the WOMEN are regularly protesting this seclusion from the military. At least from Pakistan several women have come on this forum and blasted this double standard already.

there are some on this very forum who are extremely angry at this 'double standard'

I mean what the hell, once you took 'em & now you won't

but they are always ready to take doctors but every one don't like medicine