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IAF moves to build Swiss trainer jets at home as number of new pilots drops

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Sorry to disappoint you but overhaul of Mig-21, mig-23 and Mig-29 was not done by IAF but HAL, including transport planes and helicopters. IAF base depot only look after day to day or normal maintenance work.
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Indian Air Force :: 11 Base Repair Depot, Ojhar AFS

Stunning are the figures doled out by Air Commodore R.R. Bhardwaj, the Air Officer Commanding of No. 11 BRD. "The overhaul programme for the MiG-23s and MiG-29s, which would have cost over Rs 400 crores if undertaken in Russia is incurring not more than Rs 50 crores at No. 11 BRD, all with indigenous technology, under the highest quality standards and total technical life enhancement programmes and that too in the quickest possible time". He can afford to be exuberant when his men confidently develop Life Extension Technology for a meagre Rs 50 lakhs, the alternative in Russia costing some hundred crores. Till date, 191 overhauled MiG-23s and 51 MiG- 29s have rolled out of the Depot and are back in IAF squadrons.

After flight of the first overhauled MiG-23 in April 1988 and technology transfer for this aircraft from the Soviets in November that year, 11 BRD has not since looked back. Another major operational coup came in 1996 when the MiG-29s were allotted to 11 BRD for overhaul.

You have to read more about the IAF's maintainance command and the BRDs under it. Day to day servicing is done by the ground crew within each squadron. These BRDs are for major overhauls.
 
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Indian Air Force :: 11 Base Repair Depot, Ojhar AFS





You have to read more about the IAF's maintainance command and the BRDs under it. Day to day servicing is done by the ground crew within each squadron. These BRDs are for major overhauls.

Please read the whole article
The engine is sent to the HAL'S Korapu plant and once back after overhaul, is checked with advanced internal scanning process before being integrated in the aircraft .

No. 11 BRD had taken care to stay away from the fuss, bothering more on avionics and airframes and leaving the engine part to the HAL engineers at Koraput and No. 4 BRD in Kanpur.


Once "life extension" was declared as a thrust area, defence research labs throughout the country, HAL engineers and even IIT researchers were brought into the team for the operation.

Important point to note is that they are not independent units, they regularly take assistance from HAL engineers. Which means its a collaborative effort, where minor work or less complex work is done by IAF while complex work is left to HAL, NAL and DRDO.
 
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Please read the whole article



Important point to note is that they are not independent units, they regularly take assistance from HAL engineers. Which means its a collaborative effort, where minor work or less complex work is done by IAF while complex work is left to HAL, NAL and DRDO.

What it says is that engines are not assembled in BRDs. Not surprising, since that is very complex technology. However, they are more than capable of assembling PC-7 trainers. The engines will be imported, of course, as will the airframe.

Overhauling migs can be said to be more of a technological challenge than simple assembly of these trainers from knocked down kits. The mig overhauls involved much deeper specialization than simple assembly.
 
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What it says is that engines are not assembled in BRDs. Not surprising, since that is very complex technology. However, they are more than capable of assembling PC-7 trainers. The engines will be imported, of course, as will the airframe.

Overhauling migs can be said to be more of a technological challenge than simple assembly of these trainers from knocked down kits. The mig overhauls involved much deeper specialization than simple assembly.

Question is not that whether they have capacity or not, but question is why should they? Its not their work.

Manufacturing or developing any military platform is totally technical and business oriented field, IAF don't have technical expertise even upto level of HAL, leave DRDO or NAL. Defence forces should never get involved in business oriented projects, nor government should allow it.

The right way for IAF is to have dedicated team or branch for aircraft design and development, where they work with other agencies like HAL, private players, DRDO, NAL, IIT's and other institutes just for sharing their ideas, plans and requirements, but no financial dealing, it must be left to other agencies. They should never get involved in manufacturing or assembling, they should only put their requirement, monitor projects and check whether the product meets their operational requirement or not.
 
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Question is not that whether they have capacity or not, but question is why should they? Its not their work.

Manufacturing or developing any military platform is totally technical and business oriented field, IAF don't have technical expertise even upto level of HAL, leave DRDO or NAL. Defence forces should never get involved in business oriented projects, nor government should allow it.

The right way for IAF is to have dedicated team or branch for aircraft design and development, where they work with other agencies like HAL, private players, DRDO, NAL, IIT's and other institutes just for sharing their ideas, plans and requirements, but no financial dealing, it must be left to other agencies. They should never get involved in manufacturing or assembling, they should only put their requirement, monitor projects and check whether the product meets their operational requirement or not.

If HAL is refusing to assemble PC-7s, what choice do they have? They already have PC-7s, and a flight training program based on it, and they don't want two basic trainers. They can either purchase the product outright, or at least assemble it at home, thereby spending some of their budget in house, instead of sending every penny to Swiss workers.

IAF has been doing major overhauls for a long time, and there is good reason for that. That way they get to know the aircraft inside out, and will not need to send every aircraft to HAL every time. The whole enterprise gets streamlined if these fourth level work is done by the IAF itself. And having their ground crew gain that much expertise is also invaluable during wartime.

It is not a business oriented project, BTW. It is simply a way to retain some money inside the IAF (and India). They are already committed to purchasing PC-7s. If HAL does not do it, the only question is whether BRD workers should asemble it, or Swiss workers should, using Indian taxpayers' money.

I agree about IAF going the navy way in being involved in aircraft design with HAL and ADA. But this is a seperate issue, this is not about whether IAF should develop a trainer, or HAL should. If that was the question, I would want HAL to do it. This is about who should assemble an already purchased product, and the choice is Switzerland or BRDs. (Since HAL refuses.)
 
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If HAL is refusing to assemble PC-7s, what choice do they have? They already have PC-7s, and a flight training program based on it, and they don't want two basic trainers. They can either purchase the product outright, or at least assemble it at home, thereby spending some of their budget in house, instead of sending every penny to Swiss workers.

IAF has been doing major overhauls for a long time, and there is good reason for that. That way they get to know the aircraft inside out, and will not need to send every aircraft to HAL every time. The whole enterprise gets streamlined if these fourth level work is done by the IAF itself. And having their ground crew gain that much expertise is also invaluable during wartime.

It is not a business oriented project, BTW. It is simply a way to retain some money inside the IAF (and India). They are already committed to purchasing PC-7s. If HAL does not do it, the only question is whether BRD workers should asemble it, or Swiss workers should, using Indian taxpayers' money.

I agree about IAF going the navy way in being involved in aircraft design with HAL and ADA. But this is a seperate issue, this is not about whether IAF should develop a trainer, or HAL should. If that was the question, I would want HAL to do it. This is about who should assemble an already purchased product, and the choice is Switzerland or BRDs. (Since HAL refuses.)

They should only be concerned about their operational requirement, whether HAL assemble it or not, whether its imported or home made. Managing finances is the job of MOD or Finance ministry. Till few years back IAF was reluctant to support indigenous products, which is a shame.

Initially Mirage-2000 fulfilled all IAF requirements, it could have been met by Gripen as well but they chose the best and highly expensive one, why? I know because it was MOD's decision for industrial growth and other things, but why they chose the two most expensive platforms only? Now you will say that due to delay they did the right thing by selecting the most modern platforms which has enough space for future upgrades, but then so is the case with Gripen. Over all Gripen is far better than Mirage-2000, and cost effective too. Even if Mirages would have been purchased at that time, then also it would have served us for atleast 25-30 years means upto 2030. Which means they don't think about money? they don't care whether nation can afford it or not? I don't blame them, since its not their job, they should only be concerned about their minimum operational requirements. But then if you just go about minimum operational requirement then Rafale and Typhoon is bad choice. If China is major concern for their decision then it means our IAF is shortsighted who never thought from that angle when they wanted to buy Mirages.

I am not saying that we should close BRD's, they are doing right thing, but should be limited to that only, means normal maintenance and upgrades through help of other agencies.
 
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WTF.... why IAF need to produce or assemble a plane. The BRD is for maintenance and not manufacturing.
GOI must not allow this.
Some body has been paid a big kickback by the Swiss....
Utter nonsense. This is the only option the IAF realtiscally has less with HAL pushing foreword their now defucnt HTT-40 project. The PC-7 MK.2 has been selected, it is only logical the remaining 106 requirement for BTTs go to this platform especially when the unit priice quoted is far cheaper than what HAL quoted for the HTT-40.

175 PC-7 MK.2s was always the way to go. This initial order- follow on order system the Indian Mil has got itself used to is just a nightmare and irrelevant in the age when the money is there for large initial orders.
 
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They should only be concerned about their operational requirement, whether HAL assemble it or not, whether its imported or home made. Managing finances is the job of MOD or Finance ministry. Till few years back IAF was reluctant to support indigenous products, which is a shame.

Initially Mirage-2000 fulfilled all IAF requirements, it could have been met by Gripen as well but they chose the best and highly expensive one, why? I know because it was MOD's decision for industrial growth and other things, but why they chose the two most expensive platforms only? Now you will say that due to delay they did the right thing by selecting the most modern platforms which has enough space for future upgrades, but then so is the case with Gripen. Over all Gripen is far better than Mirage-2000, and cost effective too. Even if Mirages would have been purchased at that time, then also it would have served us for atleast 25-30 years means upto 2030. Which means they don't think about money? they don't care whether nation can afford it or not? I don't blame them, since its not their job, they should only be concerned about their minimum operational requirements. But then if you just go about minimum operational requirement then Rafale and Typhoon is bad choice. If China is major concern for their decision then it means our IAF is shortsighted who never thought from that angle when they wanted to buy Mirages.

I am not saying that we should close BRD's, they are doing right thing, but should be limited to that only, means normal maintenance and upgrades through help of other agencies.

That middle para has nothing to do with the topic, and I am not sure why you are asking me all those questions. Yes, there are many questions we all would like to ask IAF. That would be true of any big organisation. But these are general questions that have nothing to do with the specific point at hand, which is the question of whether IAF should pay Swiss workers from its budget to assemble trainers, or do it in their own depots, thereby keeping the money within, and honing skills in its workforce.
 
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