IAF gets feel of latest Pak fighter aircraft

[gogbot]

IAF can get sneak peak into the Air Craft

With all due respect , i would hardly call this a sneak peak. IAF has done everything to the aircraft , just short of stripping it down.

They have evaluated it on technical basis for MMRCA.

They have had access to manufacturer privy information.
Such as actually using the F-16 as part of the Air force and other technical details.

They have flown the plane.

They have flown against it.

They have talked to pilots of F-16's .

In the Exercises alone , they have develop tactics to improve their odd's against the F-16.

This is not a sneak , or peak.
We went to the whole show , and even got on stage.

but it cannot get the most important factor - The home grown tactics developed by war hardened pilots specially the combat experience PAF has against enemy aircrafts is vital.

That is very true , Pilots make the machine . But there is only that much that the PAF pilots can do with their machines.

You can do things differently , but you are always bound by the inherent limitations of the machine. PAF pilots may have a surprise or two. But IAF has thoroughly mapped the capabilities of the plane.

And IAF pilots have had hands on experience with and against these aircraft.

We have been flying these birds for over 30 years and there are dozens of pilots who have crossed 5000 hours mark on F-16's .

Again very , which is all the more important IAF see what other F-16 veterans and air forces can do.

Any air craft can be potent in the right hands.

IAF is getting real experiences over the last few years on what facing a potent F-16 is like

Just for the record PAF has evaluated MIG-29 , SU-30MKK , Mirage-2k and practiced against these air crafts which leaves nothing for IAF to be happy about.

Mig-29 - can i get some info plz , when did PAk evaluate.

Su-30MKK- It is not the MKI , sub systems are different and airframe is slightly different.

 

[anathema]

^^^so why does the goI always 'complain' about the delivery of a measley 18 a/c at every opportunity it gets!??? - take it in stride!!! or is there 'something' you dont know!!!

Prevention is better than cure -- i guess.....Also if GoI cries about F16 then it talks volumes about the plane and the technology that comes with it...Why should GOI loose that advantage ?

 

[anathema]

True...but tactics are developed around a machine and not the other way round. There is so much a person can learn about the machine --its strengths , its weakness , etc... Its always better to know something rather than be ignorant....

A classic example -- It is only during these kind of excercises that Americans became aware of Mig 29 ability of HMS and its 45 degree sight....they developed tactics around it --On how to avoid this scenario.....You can be rest assured that Indians too will be writing their experiences and scenarios based on what they found about this machine.

These are one of the many outcomes on these sort of excercises.

Pasting a Brief of DACT excercise conducted by USAF -- Its a bit old but a good read...Shows what goes on and what kind of findings the AF comes up with years and years of training....SHows you how important it is to have training with F16..


"During the first training week basic fighter maneuvering, i.e. air combat within visual range, was practiced and the dogfight intensity was gradually built up during the first five days from 1v1 to 2v1, concluding in 2v2 on 26 April. Like many MiG opponents during previous DACT exercises, the Swiss underestimated the Fulcrum's qualities at close range. Like the Hornet, the MiG-29 has great low speed maneuverability,
which allows it to move its nose around in slow-speed fights.
The aircraft's greatest advantage is the AA-11 Archer, a Russian-built infra-red guided missile, which in combination with the pilot's helmet-mounted sight makes the Fulcrum the most feared lethal weapon. This helmet-mounted sight consists of a monocle over the left eye and sensors on helmet and in the cockpit to detect the pilot's head position. Just by looking at the target the pilot can activate a firing solution and the thrust-vectored Archer can be launched up to 45° off the MiG's nose. This superiority is only effective if the enemy is seen as soon as possible.

One of the Fulcrum's disadvantages is the visibility from the cockpit. The Hornet drivers soon realized that the MiG-29 pilots had difficulties 'checking six'. Since an Archer launch includes illuminating the target until impact, the pilot has to keep his head turning towards the target, a very tiresome procedure when performed in heavy G dogfights.

Thirdly, the Fulcrum's cockpit avionics entail considerable workload with a lot of hands-off switches and limited HUD information. When looking inside his cockpit, the MiG-29 pilot is not able to continuously monitor his tactical situation. These elements gave the Hornet drivers the means to tackle the MiG-29's splendid close-range superior performance and partly overcome the Archer off-boresight launch authority.

The Fulcrum's greatest disadvantage was unveiled during the second week, when 4v4 BVR (beyond visual range) 'hops' were performed. Although the MiG-29's radar has a 120° detection capability, only a 50° cone can be used for target detection and tracking. Clearly, this does not give the pilot a good overview of the tactical situation. Since the radar has to be manually steered towards the target's direction,
the pilot greatly depends on GCI information to locate the bogey. During lock-on all other contacts are lost and no target altitude, range or speed information is provided.

The Hornet's low maintenance needs - one flight hour equals about 25 man hours of maintenance work - added to the high operational status throughout the exercise. In this field the German counterparts were in for a challenge, since one MiG-29 flight hour requires no less than 80 man hours of servicing. (!!!!)

Daily many DACT 'hops' were scheduled, averaging to about fourteen MiG-29 sorties per day, but these numbers have to be put into perspective. Each mission comprised a maximum of 25 minutes flying, which unveiled the MiG-29's Achilles heel.

This is a further study
Although the installation of a centerline external fuel tank (EFT) can increase the aircraft's autonomy, this configuration has numerous downsides. Since the EFT blocks the discharge route of spent ammunition casings, the tank has to be jettisoned when using the 30mm cannon. This configuration also limits the aircraft's speed to 1.5 Mach and disables the activation of speed brakes. To partly overcome these problems modifications to seven single-seaters enabled the use of two 300 gal (1150 litre) under wing pylons. This configuration however limits the Fulcrums maneuverability to 4 G turns."

 

[Donatello]

Pasting a Brief of DACT excercise conducted by USAF -- Its a bit old but a good read...Shows what goes on and what kind of findings the AF comes up with years and years of training....SHows you how important it is to have training with F16..


"During the first training week basic fighter maneuvering, i.e. air combat within visual range, was practiced and the dogfight intensity was gradually built up during the first five days from 1v1 to 2v1, concluding in 2v2 on 26 April. Like many MiG opponents during previous DACT exercises, the Swiss underestimated the Fulcrum's qualities at close range. Like the Hornet, the MiG-29 has great low speed maneuverability,
which allows it to move its nose around in slow-speed fights.
The aircraft's greatest advantage is the AA-11 Archer, a Russian-built infra-red guided missile, which in combination with the pilot's helmet-mounted sight makes the Fulcrum the most feared lethal weapon. This helmet-mounted sight consists of a monocle over the left eye and sensors on helmet and in the cockpit to detect the pilot's head position. Just by looking at the target the pilot can activate a firing solution and the thrust-vectored Archer can be launched up to 45° off the MiG's nose. This superiority is only effective if the enemy is seen as soon as possible.

One of the Fulcrum's disadvantages is the visibility from the cockpit. The Hornet drivers soon realized that the MiG-29 pilots had difficulties 'checking six'. Since an Archer launch includes illuminating the target until impact, the pilot has to keep his head turning towards the target, a very tiresome procedure when performed in heavy G dogfights.

Thirdly, the Fulcrum's cockpit avionics entail considerable workload with a lot of hands-off switches and limited HUD information. When looking inside his cockpit, the MiG-29 pilot is not able to continuously monitor his tactical situation. These elements gave the Hornet drivers the means to tackle the MiG-29's splendid close-range superior performance and partly overcome the Archer off-boresight launch authority.

The Fulcrum's greatest disadvantage was unveiled during the second week, when 4v4 BVR (beyond visual range) 'hops' were performed. Although the MiG-29's radar has a 120° detection capability, only a 50° cone can be used for target detection and tracking. Clearly, this does not give the pilot a good overview of the tactical situation. Since the radar has to be manually steered towards the target's direction,
the pilot greatly depends on GCI information to locate the bogey. During lock-on all other contacts are lost and no target altitude, range or speed information is provided.

The Hornet's low maintenance needs - one flight hour equals about 25 man hours of maintenance work - added to the high operational status throughout the exercise. In this field the German counterparts were in for a challenge, since one MiG-29 flight hour requires no less than 80 man hours of servicing. (!!!!)

Daily many DACT 'hops' were scheduled, averaging to about fourteen MiG-29 sorties per day, but these numbers have to be put into perspective. Each mission comprised a maximum of 25 minutes flying, which unveiled the MiG-29's Achilles heel.

This is a further study
Although the installation of a centerline external fuel tank (EFT) can increase the aircraft's autonomy, this configuration has numerous downsides. Since the EFT blocks the discharge route of spent ammunition casings, the tank has to be jettisoned when using the 30mm cannon. This configuration also limits the aircraft's speed to 1.5 Mach and disables the activation of speed brakes. To partly overcome these problems modifications to seven single-seaters enabled the use of two 300 gal (1150 litre) under wing pylons. This configuration however limits the Fulcrums maneuverability to 4 G turns."

Good info, but is there like this one on F-16s vs SU30MKIs?

 

[blueoval79]

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has got a feel of Pakistan’s most modern fighter aircraft during a multi-nation exercise in France even before the aircraft have been delivered to the Pakistani Air Force (PAF).
Later this week, Pakistan will get its most modern fighter aircraft when the US delivers the first four of the advanced Block 52 F 16 aircraft as part of a deal to upgrade its military.

However, the IAF has sparred with the Block 52 version of the fighter — which is considered to be a generation ahead of the existing F 16 fleet of the PAF — during Exercise Garuda that is currently underway at the Istres Air Base in France. The IAF, which has deployed its SU 30MKI fighters for the exercise, has conducted aerial duels and joint missions to fully gauge the capabilities of the ‘enemy’ fighter. Pakistan is to get 18 of the Block 52 versions of the F 16 fighters under a deal with the US.

Sources said not only did IAF pilots get a feel of the operational characteristics of the fighter during the aerial war games but some pilots also got the chance to take sorties in the F 16 Block 52 aircraft of the Singapore Air Force that was part of the multi-nation aerial exercise involving India and France. A senior officer confirmed that this was also the first time that the IAF’s SU 30MKIs were conducting an exercise with three modern fighters — the Rafale, F 16 and the Mirage 2000-5.

“Over 60 missions have been successfully flown during the exercise. The six IAF SU 30MKIs along with the Mirage-2000-5 and Rafale and the F-16 were engaged in various air defence manouvres such as implementation of “no fly zones” and large force engagements during day and night,” IAF spokesperson Wing Commander Mahesh Upasani, who was present at the exercise, said.

The Indian fighters took part in missions to protect high value air borne assets like refuellers and AWACS. The SU 30MKIs also practised aerial refuelling with the French KC 135 aircraft. The multi-role Sukhoi fighters were also simultaneously deployed in defensive and offensive operations — a key capability of the heavy fighter aircraft.

IAF gets feel of latest Pak fighter aircraft

 

[Kinetic]

Another media hype!!!! IAF conducting exercises with F-16 Block 50/52+ of the RSAF for many years. They have have done it in India as well during SINDEX. Also IAF evaluating most advanced F-16 ie F-16IN. Now whats the big deal!

 

[Chanakyaa]

@penumbra,

1. F16IN is Blk 60 .. Certainly better thatn Blk 52.

2. The F16 IN has AESA , dont be stupid to say thet Blk 52 has better radar.

3. how on earth u got the figure of 90+ F16s when you are yet to recieve the 18 a/s ordered years back.?

4. India wont buy F16... We dont want any old plane designs which dont fit in IAFs offensive and two front doctrine.

Better compare F16s with SH, Rafale or Typhoon which are the primary contendors.

 

[Jinnah]

I think you people should know, "A Plane is as good as its pilot"


so If IAF has evaluated F16, PAF don't care

 

[nomi007]

shameful for India,that they are afraid by only 18 jets of Pakistan,India is also purchasing 126 jets.then why they are so threaten

 

[Aslan]

And this is such a great news because!!!!

 

[Jazzbot]

thread already posted..

 

[RobbieS]

shameful for India,that they are afraid by only 18 jets of Pakistan,India is also purchasing 126 jets.then why they are so threaten

Shameful? It shameful to learn about your enemy's weapons? If PAF had conducted similar exercises with Su-30s of a third country, you would have commended them for their shrewdness!

 

[CONNAN]

REPOST BUDDY

 

[ptldM3]

shameful for India,that they are afraid by only 18 jets of Pakistan,India is also purchasing 126 jets.then why they are so threaten

First off Pakistan has more then just 18 fighters for India to contest. Moreover, Pakistan is not India's only concern, India still has to deal with China.

Further, the reason India is looking to purchase 126 aircraft is because they plan to phase out their older aircraft; and one reason for India's large airforce is obviously to defend itself but there is also another reason, this reason is called a strategic deterrence.

And this is such a great news because!!!!

Because they can exploit the aircraft's weaknesses.

 

[Jazzbot]

Shameful? It shameful to learn about your enemy's weapons? If PAF had conducted similar exercises with Su-30s of a third country, you would have commended them for their shrewdness!

i bet india will start crying again if Pakistan will get her hands on SU-30 for evaluation.. Perhaps india never waste any chance of crying..