IAF cites religion for banning beard for Muslims

[Salahadin]

IAF cites religion for banning beard for Muslims

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: Defending an Indian Air Force (IAF) policy that forbids Muslim personnel recruited after 2002 from keeping a beard, the Indian government has told the Supreme Court that its policies are ‘secular in nature’ and that only those air force personnel are permitted to grow hair or keep a beard “whose religion specifically prohibits” cutting hair, Indian Express reported on Sunday.

According to the report, the Indian government said that keeping a beard was not compulsory in Islam. “It is submitted that all Muslims do not keep a beard. The practice of growing and keeping a beard is optional and sporting a beard is not universally recognised in the religion of Islam,” the government said in a reply.

The government’s response was to an appeal by Aircraftsman Ansari Aftab Ahmad, who challenged the validity of the IAF’s instructions, dated February 24 and April 1, 2003, prohibiting Muslim personnel from growing a beard. The court in September 2008 sought scrutiny of the rule.

“The main aim of the policy, which lays down dress and department rules for the air force personnel, is that personnel should be known by the duty that he performs and not by the religion to which he belongs,” the Indian government told the apex court. The policy, the IAF stressed, was “issued in the interest of cohesiveness in a combatant force like the IAF and also keeping in view the security implications”.

“All air force personnel, while on duty, are required to wear similar uniform and do not display any sign or object which marks him distinctly from others. In an armed force, it is always intended that to the extent possible, all personnel should look identifiably similar so that they may work in a cohesive, cooperative and coordinate manner,” it said.

Apart from Ahmad, another petitioner, Muhammad Zubair, had challenged the IAF policy on similar grounds, but his plea was dismissed.
dailytimes.com.pk

 

[leonblack08]

Doesn't secularism mean everyone free to practice their own religion??I am confused.

 

[Flintlock]

^Its usually a compromise between discipline and religious freedoms.

For Sikhs, keeping a beard is mandatory. That isn't the case with muslims.

 

[ahmeddsid]

Doesn't secularism mean everyone free to practice their own religion??I am confused.

The French dont allow it either, even in skools. Sikhs and muslims protested against it. Secular means the State does not allow any religion to creep in, nor support any religion, nor does it support any religion, or allow religious symbols. Religion is treated as strictly personal! Its a broad definition. India isnt Secular in the sense that it provides Hajj Subsidy etc. So its supporting Islam in a way, and Christians to have leverage. So Its not truly Secular. The French are!

 

[notsuperstitious]

The French dont allow it either, even in skools. Sikhs and muslims protested against it. Secular means the State does not allow any religion to creep in, nor support any religion, nor does it support any religion, or allow religious symbols. Religion is treated as strictly personal! Its a broad definition. India isnt Secular in the sense that it provides Hajj Subsidy etc. So its supporting Islam in a way, and Christians to have leverage. So Its not truly Secular. The French are!

Yes Indian secularism is a bit of mixed thing, muslims are also allowed to follow sharia personal law. however if nobody gets to grow beard unless its required by religion, then whats the problem in muslims (along with others) not getting to grow beards?

 

[Gabbar]

IAF to rethink on Muslim beard issue

NEW DELHI: The Indian Air Force is taking a fresh look at its tough stand not to allow a Muslim personnel to sport a beard.


While the Air Force had on an affidavit in the Supreme Court strongly argued that Islam does not mandate its members to keep a beard or not to trim it, realisation that its tough stand could incite a controversy led it to tell the court that it would look at the sensitive issue anew.

Responding to a petition filed by one Mohammad Zubair challenging the Air Force's policy not to allow Muslim recruits to keep beard if on the date of joining they did not have it, the IAF said, "All Muslims do not carry beard."

"The practice of growing and keeping beard is optional and sporting a beard is not universally recognised in the religion of Islam. Therefore, it cannot be said that Muslim religion prohibits the cutting of hair or shaving of the face of its member," it told the Supreme Court in an affidavit.

Having said this on an affidavit, the Centre realised that such a stand could stoke a huge religious controversy. Appearing for the government, additional solicitor general Indira Jaising told a Bench comprising Justices D K Jain and H L Dattu on Monday that the government was taking a fresh look at the issue.

While deferring hearing for eight weeks, the Bench noted in its order: "The ASG appearing on behalf of the Union of India states that fresh thought is being given to the controversy raised in the present petition. She prays for adjournment."

The IAF in its affidavit had said that its decision not to allow Muslims who did not have a beard at the time of joining the force to grow a beard was also judicially approved.

It cited a 1985 decision of the Kerala High Court, which had held that Muslim personnel serving in the armed forces like the state police cannot grow beard as a matter of right and that they were bound by the departmental instructions in this regard.

"For the effective and efficient functioning of such a large combatant force, with 11,000 officers and about 1.2 lakh personnel below the officers, it is imperative and essential that its personnel are guided by a sense of brotherhood and feeling of `espirit-de-corps' without any distinction of caste, creed, colour or religion," the IAF's affidavit said.

 

[qsaark]

So a Sikh in IAF is allowed to grow beard but not a Muslim? What if a Hindu wants to grow beard? Would he be allowed or not? How exactly beard would stop somebody performing his duties? This is one of its kind of secularism and democracy in my opinion.

 

[Screaming Skull]

So a Sikh in IAF is allowed to grow beard but not a Muslim? What if a Hindu wants to grow beard? Would he be allowed or not? How exactly beard would stop somebody performing his duties? This is one of its kind of secularism and democracy in my opinion.

This has got nothing to do with religion or secularism. It is all about military discipline. Facial hair (except for a well groomed mustache) is considered as a mark of indiscipline and brazen untidiness on the part of the IAF personnel. Even the Sikhs are advised to sport a well groomed beard.
Personnel of other religions (Hindus and Muslims alike) are allowed to sport beards temporarily for short durations if the please to do so. But, even for that they have take prior approval from higher authorities by submitting official application citing proper reasons.

 

[qsaark]

This has got nothing to do with religion or secularism. It is all about military discipline. Facial hair (except for a well groomed mustache) is considered as a mark of indiscipline and brazen untidiness on the part of the IAF personnel. Even the Sikhs are advised to sport a well groomed beard.
Personnel of other religions (Hindus and Muslims alike) are allowed to sport beards temporarily for short durations if the please to do so. But, even for that they have take prior approval from higher authorities by submitting official application citing proper reasons.

The case mentioned above is telling a different story.

 

[Screaming Skull]

The case mentioned above is telling a different story.

I have to stress the point temporarily for short duration with prior approval citing valid reason Generally the reason has to compulsive enough for the higher authorities to approve it.

 

[xebex]

^^ Hindus or Christian whatever religion u believe in, EXCEPT sikhs, cant grow beard in Indian armed forces except some special forces( need confirmation). Majority of armed forces around the world wont allow beard in active duty.There are couple of reason for this, reasons of uniformity, hygiene, discipline, or tactical demands (such as the proper fitting and seal of a gas mask).This has to do with thier rules and principles NOTHING to do with secularism.

Here is an intersting article for you to read...

The Decline of Beards in Warfare: Increasingly banned in modern combat a rebirth is underway | Suite101.com

 

[qsaark]

^^ Hindus or Christian whatever religion u believe in, EXCEPT sikhs, cant grow beard in Indian armed forces except some special forces( need confirmation). Majority of armed forces around the world wont allow beard in active duty.There are couple of reason for this, reasons of uniformity, hygiene, discipline, or tactical demands (such as the proper fitting and seal of a gas mask).This has to do with thier rules and principles NOTHING to do with secularism.

So Sikhs are not subjected to these 'couple of reasons' or God has given them some special abilities to perform well irrespective of beard?

You and Screaming Skull both come from the same country, yet telling us different stories. My suggestion would be to discuss this matter privately among two of you, reach to any one position that is also the position of your Government and than try to convince people here.

 

[Gabbar]

So Sikhs are not subjected to these 'couple of reasons' or God has given them some special abilities to perform well irrespective of beard?

Beard in Sikhism is requirment unlike other religions. Beard is MUST for Sikhs. Heck Siks didnt even wore helmets during World Wars. They had choice that if they got shot in the head, British government will not compnste thier families. Sikhs choosed not wear helmets. Even Hindus are not allowed to grow beard, mustaches are allowed to everone but not beards.

 

[qsaark]

Beard in Sikhism is requirment unlike other religions. Beard is MUST for Sikhs. Heck Siks didnt even wore helmets during World Wars. They had choice that if they got shot in the head, British government will not compnste thier families. Sikhs choosed not wear helmets. Even Hindus are not allowed to grow beard, mustaches are allowed to everone but not beards.

So Indian military has dual standards, one for the Sikhs and one for the non-Sikhs. Sikhs did not want to wear helmets and IA allowed this to happen even though this involved the danger of loss of life. Military gear is there for a reason is it not? So where the discipline went?

 

[Screaming Skull]

You and Screaming Skull both come from the same country, yet telling us different stories. My suggestion would be to discuss this matter privately among two of you, reach to any one position that is also the position of your Government and than try to convince people here.

Well one can only convince people who come with an open mind to learn and understand the way things work in other parts of the world. By the way I think you and Xeric too come from the same country. Don't you?

If you have an open mind, then read on.

Read the reports again. It says only those Muslims are prohibited from growing a beard who at the time recruitment didn't sport a beard. Does that make sense to you? It completely tears apart the argument that in Islam it is compulsory to grow a beard. If it is compulsory and a recruit wishes to abide by the law set by his religion, he shouldn't have shaved his beard in the first pace. Whereas a Sikh who is allowed to sport a beard comes with a beard and turban at the time of recruitment also!

As far as my claim of sporting beards temporarily is concerned, it is common sense that a full fledged beard won't grow in a matter of weeks for which time a person may be allowed to grow it. It can be rather called facial hair rather that beard at best. Some of the circumstances when this may be allowed are
-During the holy month of Ramzan, if a Muslim chooses to grow a beard, he may be allowed to do so.
-If a muslim is traveling to a holy place of worship like Mecca or Medina, he may be allowed to sport a beard may be a few weeks prior t his trip.
-Certain south Indian temples, mandate that worshipers don't shave a few weeks prior to visiting. Hence, a Hindu too may be allowed to sport a beard if he chooses to a couple of weeks prior to his visit.

But in all circumstances the beard or facial hair has to be shaved off after the purpose has been served!