I think conventionally the armed forces are lacking Vs India

[thrilainmanila]

I think we've improved over the years compared to what the armed forces were like 15 years ago, the armed forces of today are better. but compared to india we are seriously lacking, the pak army seem to be well armed and well managed but the airforce and the navy especially don't have anything to ward off an attack. I just recently read india has inducted a destroyer which has some of the best technologies around and cost 1 billion USD to make and there going to induct 5 or 6 more of these with more improved designs, they also have something like 200 SU-30MKIs 50 M2000 MIG-29s an advanced SAM systems. our airforce or navy doesn't cut it at all. The poor economy has crushed any attempts for the navy or air force to invest in high tech gear. The navy and airforce are at least a generation behind what the IAF or IN have

 

[Bossman]

I think we've improved over the years compared to what the armed forces were like 15 years ago, the armed forces of today are better. but compared to india we are seriously lacking, the pak army seem to be well armed and well managed but the airforce and the navy especially don't have anything to ward off an attack. I just recently read india has inducted a destroyer which has some of the best technologies around and cost 1 billion USD to make and there going to induct 5 or 6 more of these with more improved designs, they also have something like 200 SU-30MKIs 50 M2000 MIG-29s an advanced SAM systems. our airforce or navy doesn't cut it at all. The poor economy has crushed any attempts for the navy or air force to invest in high tech gear. The navy and airforce are at least a generation behind what the IAF or IN have

So what is the big deal? We were always behind the Indians, historically as well as since 1947 and still they cannot dominate us. India is 7 times bigger than Pakistan, in terms of size, population and economy and their conventional forces will always be bigger.

You are obviously an Indian as your thinking is reflected in what you write. Pakistani are used to taking on bigger enemies, Indians since 1947, Soviet Union in the 80s and now even the Americans, no big deal for us. You Indian cannot handle a country 7 times smaller. Being the biggest importer of weapon in the world, when your people are starving and committing suicide because of poverty is nothing to be proud of. Got get life and don't start stupid threads.

 

[thrilainmanila]

So what is the big deal? We were always behind the Indians, historically as well as since 1947 and still they cannot dominate us. India is 7 times bigger than Pakistan, in terms of size, population and economy and their conventional forces will always be bigger.

You are obviously an Indian as your thinking is reflected in what your write. Pakistani are used to taking on bigger enemies, Indians since 1947, Soviet Union in the 80s and now even the American, no big deal for us. You Indian cannot handle a country 7 time smaller.

you're a retard, a brainwashed retard. I'm talking in facts what have i said that is negative? were we in our golden era economic wise in the last 10 years? don't the indias posses more the 200 su-30mkis haven't they built a destroyer which is worth 1 billion USD? You're a bufoon please don't post you're just a moron and you're embarrassing yourself.
in the previous times of our history the technological gap wasn't that big in 65/71 we had an effective airforce which was equal to them technology wise

 

[StormShadow]

So what is the big deal? We were always behind the Indians, historically as well as since 1947 and still they cannot dominate us. India is 7 times bigger than Pakistan, in terms of size, population and economy and their conventional forces will always be bigger.

Wrong. Till 90's you were ahead of us. India was a poor country and technologically, PAF was advanced than IAF. Inducting Su-30 started to turn the tables in India's favor.

 

[AUz]

OP is definitely an indian who is trying to "re-assure" his indian delusions when it comes to Pakistan.


Here's the reality.

Ground Forces:

Pakistan has tremendously powerful, remarkably capable, and one of the best trained ground forces. They are armed with every possible weapon that a ground force can hope for. You name it. Tanks, artillery, MRLs, Mechanized infantry, Mobile Heavy artillery guns, anti-tank weapons, air-to-ground missiles, mines, bulldozers, and ballistic missiles etc.

Pakistani ground forces can easily face indian Ground Forces in deserts and plains. Both ground forces are very equally matched. So the invading side would be at a huge disadvantage.

Air Force:

Pakistan Air Force has hundreds of 4/4.5 generation aircrafts armed with latest, top of the line BVRs. Pakistan Air Force has tons of bombs, smart weapons, targeting PODs and what not. Not to mention network-centric warfare capability and AWACs etc.

Yes, in terms of numbers...India has an edge. Also they have more number of quality planes. But in "defensive" role, PAF can face-off any indian aggression from air and can hold its own. In order to have a decisive edge over adversary, an invading power must have a 1 to 3 ratio advantage. Indian Air Force right now has an advantage of 1 to 1.6...No where near the level required to effectively defeat Pakistan.

Moreover, strategy, pilot training, and experience are other factors to count it.

Naval Forces:

Indian coastline is MASSIVE compared to Pakistan--and so is Indian Navy. But Pakistan Navy has a lethal submarine force that can easily keep indians at bay. Naval Forces of Pakistan need more buildup though and this has been going on as we speak.

And add to all this: The most important deterrent: The Nuclear Strategic Force Command of Pakistan.

Over-all, india is completely check-mated and contained by Pakistan. Territorially and geostrategically, It has no where to expand. No where to go. Just stay where it is.

 

[Zhukov]

I think we've improved over the years compared to what the armed forces were like 15 years ago, the armed forces of today are better. but compared to india we are seriously lacking, the pak army seem to be well armed and well managed but the airforce and the navy especially don't have anything to ward off an attack. I just recently read india has inducted a destroyer which has some of the best technologies around and cost 1 billion USD to make and there going to induct 5 or 6 more of these with more improved designs, they also have something like 200 SU-30MKIs 50 M2000 MIG-29s an advanced SAM systems. our airforce or navy doesn't cut it at all. The poor economy has crushed any attempts for the navy or air force to invest in high tech gear. The navy and airforce are at least a generation behind what the IAF or IN have

Well in Navy Pakistan is far behind India no doubt but India have a much larger coastal belt to defend as compared to Pakistan so a bigger navy is basically there defence need against China rather then an anti Pakistan Need. As for the MKI its mainly overrated by Indians. It is good in many areas with very capable radar Avionics and Range of Weapons. But in Air to Air Combat against PAF it will not capitalize in its capabilities due to its huge 15m2+ RCS . See Airforce is not as simple as people want to believe. Now our F16s are BVR Capable as well and JF17s are SD10 BVR capable. We may not have enough to Invade india but we have enough to defend our selves.
Air War is going to be different now. Indian main targets would be the military establishments and Formations. If they try to attack the infrastructure and other strategic assets of Pakistan then this will immidietly be followed by Missile Attacks on Indian Infrastructure by Pakistan. You my friend are living in 70s. Even Indians are adopting doctrines like cold start. Wars are not going to be like in past.
Neither India Nor Pakistan can afford a strike from the other.
Even if nukes are not used we are equally capable of destroying each other

 

[Bossman]

s

Wrong. Till 90's you were ahead of us. India was a poor country and technologically, PAF was advanced than IAF. Inducting Su-30 started to turn the tables in India's favor.

Totally wrong, look at the numbers for 1947, 1965 or 1971. Indians had an upper hand both qualitative and quantitative. Lets take air force as an example. In 1965, IAF's mainstay was the Hunters, PAF's F 86. Hunter was far superior thn F86 and IAF had much greater numbers. IAF had 3 to 4 time more Canberras than PAF's twenty odd We had only 12 F104s, which made all of India $hit in their pants versus IAF's MIG 21s. Same story in the Army and Navy. In 1971, we were under sanctions and Indians were reaping the Soviet largess. For God sake, Indians were using AWAC type aircrafts in 1971. Your Navy had missile, our didn't. Any advantage PAF had with the F16s was soon overcome with MIG 29s and Mirage 2000s. So stop deluding yourself. Your argument is just an excuse for Indian inherent incompetence. Indian size has always been the same. The ratio of population and economy has been pretty much the same i.e 7 times greater. BTW SU 30 is not the panacea the Indian think it is. It is the only thing it has as every thing else has failed, LCA, MRCA etc. But the good news is that despite all the superiority we will always be a pain in your bu##. You will never dominate us. What we are good at is getting a better bang for a buck. The father of Pakistan Special Services was quoted as saying "be proud of your poverty". Think about it.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

OP is definitely an indian who is trying to "re-assure" his indian delusions when it comes to Pakistan.


Here's the reality.

Ground Forces:

Pakistan has tremendously powerful, remarkably capable, and one of the best trained ground forces. They are armed with every possible weapon that a ground force can hope for. You name it. Tanks, artillery, MRLs, Mechanized infantry, Mobile Heavy artillery guns, anti-tank weapons, air-to-ground missiles, mines, bulldozers, and ballistic missiles etc.

Pakistani ground forces can easily face indian Ground Forces in deserts and plains. Both ground forces are very equally matched. So the invading side would be at a huge disadvantage.

Air Force:

Pakistan Air Force has hundreds of 4/4.5 generation aircrafts armed with latest, top of the line BVRs. Pakistan Air Force has tons of bombs, smart weapons, targeting PODs and what not. Not to mention network-centric warfare capability and AWACs etc.

Yes, in terms of numbers...India has an edge. Also they have more number of quality planes. But in "defensive" role, PAF can face-off any indian aggression from air and can hold its own. In order to have a decisive edge over adversary, an invading power must have a 1 to 3 ratio advantage. Indian Air Force right now has an advantage of 1 to 1.6...No where near the level required to effectively defeat Pakistan.

Moreover, strategy, pilot training, and experience are other factors to count it.

Naval Forces:

Indian coastline is MASSIVE compared to Pakistan--and so is Indian Navy. But Pakistan Navy has a lethal submarine force that can easily keep indians at bay. Naval Forces of Pakistan need more buildup though and this has been going on as we speak.

And add to all this: The most important deterrent: The Nuclear Strategic Force Command of Pakistan.

Over-all, india is completely check-mated and contained by Pakistan. Territorially and geostrategically, It has no where to expand. No where to go. Just stay where it is.

--
Pakistan Air Force has hundreds of 4/4.5 generation aircrafts armed with latest, top of the line BVRs
can you explain in details pleas ...?
n invading power must have a 1 to 3 ratio advantage. Indian Air Force right now has an advantage of 1 to 1.6.
can you tell how you got that ratio ?
Navy has a lethal submarine force that can easily keep indians at bay
which submarine .. which torpedos .. can you explain ...vis a vis IN?
The most important deterrent: The Nuclear Strategic Force Command of Pakistan.
is pak only country to have it..?
--
Over-all, india is completely check-mated and contained by Pakistan. Territorially and geostrategically, It has no where to expand. No where to go. Just stay where i
I AGREE WITH IT..
INDIA IS SMALL BANIYA NATION WITH NO ROLE IN WORLD....
INDIA SHOULD BE UNDER PAK....

Well in Navy Pakistan is far behind India no doubt but India have a much larger coastal belt to defend as compared to Pakistan so a bigger navy is basically there defence need against China rather then an anti Pakistan Need. As for the MKI its mainly overrated by Indians. It is good in many areas with very capable radar Avionics and Range of Weapons. But in Air to Air Combat against PAF it will not capitalize in its capabilities due to its huge 15m2+ RCS . See Airforce is not as simple as people want to believe. Now our F16s are BVR Capable as well and JF17s are SD10 BVR capable. We may not have enough to Invade india but we have enough to defend our selves.
Air War is going to be different now. Indian main targets would be the military establishments and Formations. If they try to attack the infrastructure and other strategic assets of Pakistan then this will immidietly be followed by Missile Attacks on Indian Infrastructure by Pakistan. You my friend are living in 70s. Even Indians are adopting doctrines like cold start. Wars are not going to be like in past.
Neither India Nor Pakistan can afford a strike from the other.
Even if nukes are not used we are equally capable of destroying each other

--
Neither India Nor Pakistan can afford a strike from the other.
Even if nukes are not used we are equally capable of destroying each other
EVEN NORTH KOREA CAN MAKE HAVOC WITH FEW MISSLE AT RIGHT PLACE IN WORLD..
so no one gains..

 

[Bossman]

you're a retard, a brainwashed retard. I'm talking in facts what have i said that is negative? were we in our golden era economic wise in the last 10 years? don't the indias posses more the 200 su-30mkis haven't they built a destroyer which is worth 1 billion USD? You're a bufoon please don't post you're just a moron and you're embarrassing yourself.
in the previous times of our history the technological gap wasn't that big in 65/71 we had an effective airforce which was equal to them technology wise

Getting personal so quickly? Obviously you have no arguments to stand on. Each of your post is a childish rant. SU 30 is not such a big deal as the Indian think it is. It is a maintenance, fuel and manpower hog with low operational availability. A billion dollar ship can be sunk by a 50,000 dollar missile or Torpedo. Dollars or numbers are not only thing in the fog of war.

 

[AUz]

--
Pakistan Air Force has hundreds of 4/4.5 generation aircrafts armed with latest, top of the line BVRs
can you explain in details pleas ...?

Details about what? JF-17s, F-16s, upgraded Mirages etc. can all carry BVR weapons, smart bombs, and now even air-to-air refueling capability.

n invading power must have a 1 to 3 ratio advantage. Indian Air Force right now has an advantage of 1 to 1.6.
can you tell how you got that ratio ?

See the number of active squadrons of PAF and iaf.

The most important deterrent: The Nuclear Strategic Force Command of Pakistan.
is pak only country to have it..?

No. But we aren't talking about Pak invading india.

We are talking about in the context of india invading Pak.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Details about what? JF-17s, F-16s, upgraded Mirages etc. can all carry BVR weapons, smart bombs, and now even air-to-air refueling capability.


See the number of active squadrons of PAF and iaf.



No. But we aren't talking about Pak invading india.

We are talking about in the context of india invading Pak.

--
can you tel me break up of F16 and mirage whihc are you consider 4th gen
JF17 4th genration ?
which BVR ? in active serive and integration ?
---
india never invaded pak in last 4 war it was pak only..

--
if india in any case go for full sacle war .. its will do only after nuetralsing pak nuke ...
as india know there are many who eager to prees than button in pak and name it as jiahd ...
so if india can able to take out nuke form pak then an then only wil wil go for FULL SCALE WAR
---

 

[Bossman]

--
can you tel me break up of F16 and mirage whihc are you consider 4th gen
JF17 4th genration ?
which BVR ? in active serive and integration ?
---
india never invaded pak in last 4 war it was pak only..

--
if india in any case go for full sacle war .. its will do only after nuetralsing pak nuke ...
as india know there are many who eager to prees than button in pak and name it as jiahd ...
so if india can able to take out nuke form pak then an then only wil wil go for FULL SCALE WAR
---

Wrong discussion, we have already reached the conclusion that Indian military has always been superior both qualitatively and quantitatively because of its bigger size, population and economy but it still cannot dominate a country 10 to 7 times smaller than itself. This is a very poor reflection on India, the biggest importer of weapons in the world.

 

[danger007]

Details about what? JF-17s, F-16s, upgraded Mirages etc. can all carry BVR weapons, smart bombs, and now even air-to-air refueling capability.


See the number of active squadrons of PAF and iaf.



No. But we aren't talking about Pak invading india.

We are talking about in the context of india invading Pak.

MKI overrated by Indians???? we don't need to do... how many hundreds of 4/4.5 gen fighters Pak has?? please mention the 4.5 gen jet in Pak inventory. ..

 

[Bossman]

MKI overrated by Indians???? we don't need to do... how many hundreds of 4/4.5 gen fighters Pak has?? please mention the 4.5 gen jet in Pak inventory. ..

So with all your superior weapons how come despite being asked by the government and the hot air from its leaders, IAF did not have the balls for a punitive strike against Pakistan after the Mumbai or the parliament incidents? Despite all this superiority why are Indians still so afraid of Pakistan. The answer is simple, either Indians are not that superior or they don't have balls.

 

[hiphop]

So what is the big deal? We were always behind the Indians, historically as well as since 1947 and still they cannot dominate us. India is 7 times bigger than Pakistan, in terms of size, population and economy and their conventional forces will always be bigger.

You are obviously an Indian as your thinking is reflected in what you write. Pakistani are used to taking on bigger enemies, Indians since 1947, Soviet Union in the 80s and now even the Americans, no big deal for us. You Indian cannot handle a country 7 times smaller. Being the biggest importer of weapon in the world, when your people are starving and committing suicide because of poverty is nothing to be proud of. Got get life and don't start stupid threads.

And you guys are 7 times smaller than India and still 3rd (maybe 4th) largest importer of weapons and China is second. Don't cry about size and population....Japan have smaller size and population than both countries and still look at their Economy and South Korea is also good example. When did you had a War with USA? USA is supporting you in anything and start barking on them for more help from China.
And don't worry about our people, Pakistan also have large number of people under poverty, millions of uneducated, 1000's of people dying in terrorist attacks. So, you should think about your country first and improve it first and then come back.