I love you mom, wrote a kid before US school shooting

[KingMamba]

Right to bear and keep arms have saved thousands of life which are not reported. Most of gun violence cases in US are attributed to illegal arms. Most of shooting with legal firearms in hands of unstable people occur in schools/parks/places of worship are the places where civilians cannot carry their firearms to begin with. This incident has been very tragic, it is obvious for people to react the way they are reacting right now, but knee jerk reactions can never bring anything positive to the table. We need to strengthen the institutions for already available laws in the book. In this case, firearms need to have proper storage and locks in residences to avoid access to unauthorized people, it is a stated regulation for ownership of firearms but has never been enforced.

What we need to do is work on providing people with better mental health treatment so that the psychos can get some help before they go over the edge. The legal guns are fine and the guns used for crimes are usually bought illegally off of the streets and the blame goes to those who buy weapons legally. I know this because I know how easy it is to get a gun off the street here in the Tri state area. The safety precautions for legal guns you have mentioned is fine too but they should add another precaution like those with more than 2 kids in the house cannot own a gun because the likelihood a child gets a hand on it is huge. That is why my family doesn't own guns here in the tri state but we have a couple in Texas.

 

[jhungary]

Mamba is right, we will not give up our right to bear arms, and you can pry our rights and our guns from our cold dead hands.

You aren't even American according to your flags and probably havn't been to America, so let us conduct our own domestic affairs and stop acting as if China's or the UK's solutions will work for us. They won't.

What i sees is, not that most people don't like Guns, nor most people don't like Guns Culture. But just most people hate America and their way of life.

Gun is our part of life or you can say it's our way of life, Gun represent a big part of our way of life, hence people hated it, people without any knowledge of America, knowledge about guns culture, they blinded condemn american as if they are all mass murder because the simple fact, they hate America.

Not that i have any beef with people hating America, not if you are an American, but if you do have to hate America, please find something else as Gun Crime is not a sole right to America, every country in this earth whether gun is readily available have their share of Gun Crime. If you hate gun Crime then please just hate Gun Crime, no point pulling America in this.

I can debate the hack out of you about Guns Control. If anyone would open a thread and not just targetting USA. But if you have to relate America with Gun nuts or Gun Crime Capital. Then please stop. Gun Control in America is a sole American matter, people basically have no right to say what American should or should not do in their own Country, especially those who do not have US Citizenship or Living in the US.

Also i would like American member here refrain from attacking other countries with their own problem. If you don't want them to talk about us relating to specific problem, We should not talk about them in reklation to specific problem.

 

[anon45]

I just want to make clear that just because I defend our right bear arms does not mean I don't believe anything should be done.

First and most importantly, we need to overhaul our mental healthcare system. By all accounts it is in a sorry state and has been since it was defunded.

Another good measure I have heard is to mandate (elementary) schools to have a at least a single armed and trained security guard on hand during school hours whose job is to protect and minimize the casualties from just such an event. This is not a cure all, but it is better than nothing, and much less politically dangerous imo.

Personally I'd rather the matter be brought into the national consciousness to debate by the president and left to the states to actually debate and push through or refuse.

 

[gambit]

Does the topic say US or Pakistan?
If the members wish to take the issue personally and get back at Pakistanis for some personal egoistic insult based on an actual problem.. then they are welcome to go to the Pakistan social issues section, search for the topic that exists on the gun problems in Pakistan and post there.

Otherwise, go take a cool shower

Please...You know by now this sort of threads have nothing to do with US but about poking US in the eye. It is opportunistic and best of all, it serves those personal egoistic issues that prompted these threads in the first place. But since there are gun problems in Pakistan and that the gun culture there is greater than in the US, may be they need an escape.

Even worse, that eagerness to poke US in the eye ended up with a hoax of a story to start this thread. At least no Americans made up a story about suicide bombing or shooting girls who tried to go to school.

 

[JohnyD]

pls close this thread...too much of emotions and nothing to deal with the objective of this forum. Let US and not us learn from this and take the corrective actions as far as availability of weapons to civilians is concerned...

 

[gambit]

pls close this thread...too much of emotions and nothing to deal with the objective of this forum. Let US and not us learn from this and take the corrective actions as far as availability of weapons to civilians is concerned...

I disagree. Leave it open. It was started with a hoax of a story and that is more telling of the Pakistanis than it is about US and our 'gun culture'.

 

[MilSpec]

What we need to do is work on providing people with better mental health treatment so that the psychos can get some help before they go over the edge. The legal guns are fine and the guns used for crimes are usually bought illegally off of the streets and the blame goes to those who buy weapons legally. I know this because I know how easy it is to get a gun off the street here in the Tri state area. The safety precautions for legal guns you have mentioned is fine too but they should add another precaution like those with more than 2 kids in the house cannot own a gun because the likelihood a child gets a hand on it is huge. That is why my family doesn't own guns here in the tri state but we have a couple in Texas.

I disagree... i have firearms in my house, I just got married, doesn't mean I have to give them up when I have kids. My firearms are safely locked in the cabinet, all firearms except 1 are never operational, some have their bolts removed, some have a lock running through the action. My ammo is locked in a separate chamber, except one single magazine load, which too is locked in the gun safe. Only me and my GF have the keys. Gun privileges come with a very very high degree of responsibility. It is imperative that gun owners need to get certified every two or five years about gun storage and firearms safety. If this mother had all her firearms safely stored in the biometric gun safes, i doubt if the kids could access it.

 

[JohnyD]

I disagree. Leave it open. It was started with a hoax of a story and that is more telling of the Pakistanis than it is about US and our 'gun culture'.

issue is only with the subject...everyone is attached to his.her mom..so just dont make emotional appeals to keep the thread alive which does not have any substance to back the fundamental objective of this forum! ..and I guess and believe this is not trollers thread!!

 

[gambit]

There's nothing good to gain from this stupid gun culture, just one gun in the hand of a retard is enough to kill dozens innocents. Those who advocate free gun rule for the sake of protection, is in plain words, stupid.

Here is an example for all on what is a genuinely intelligent discussion about this event and the related issue of guns in America.

What is a 'constitution' (lower case)? It is essentially a document that set the political tone of a country and that it has philosophical and legal supremacy over the land. Any proposal to be a law can come from anyone but it has to be held against this document to see if the proposal is 'constitutional', in other words, does this proposal go against that philosophical tone. If it does not, then that document will exercise its legal supremacy and strike down that proposal via examinations, debates, and finally judgments. There is no time limit in that process.

The US Constitution (upper case) is unique to the US. Same for the Chinese Constitution (upper case) which was uniquely written for China.

CONSTITUTION OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

The Second Amendment in the US Constitution...

Second Amendment | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Did not came after the establishment of the US Constitution but was installed at the founding of that document. That mean the right to keep weapons (arms) by individuals is the philosophical and legal supremacy over the land. Any proposal to forbid the exercise of this right or even to control it must be held against this document. This issue was so important that it came after the First Amendment...

First Amendment | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

The first thing the American Founders did in setting a philosophical supremacy over the land was to forbid the government from controlling speech and the freedom of expression. The First Amendment is a political statement.

The second thing they did was to enable the citizenry to defend the first in the event of a despotic and oppressive government via accessibility to weapons. The Second Amendment is also a political statement.

The right to self defense is already a given right. It is so natural of an understanding that no government can override this common sense. No government can ban anyone from defending himself against personal intrusions. So if there is a supremely endowed right to weapons then it is only inevitable that we would use weapons to defend ourselves. But unfortunately, that same supremely endowed right to weapons also gave the people the flexibility to use them for non political purposes such as armed robbery and senseless murders. That is a price we have to pay for that supremely endowed right. Nothing is free.

So in order to ban guns in America, the Second Amendment would have to be abolished via popular vote. Americans do not look at guns as being 'macho' but more as political statements and this is where non-Americans who have not lived in the US do not understand and have a gross misconception about the US Constitution regarding the Second Amendment.

 

[KingMamba]

I disagree... i have firearms in my house, I just got married, doesn't mean I have to give them up when I have kids. My firearms are safely locked in the cabinet, all firearms except 1 are never operational, some have their bolts removed, some have a lock running through the action. My ammo is locked in a separate chamber, except one single magazine load, which too is locked in the gun safe. Only me and my GF have the keys. Gun privileges come with a very very high degree of responsibility. It is imperative that gun owners need to get certified every two or five years about gun storage and firearms safety. If this mother had all her firearms safely stored in the biometric gun safes, i doubt if the kids could access it.

I was talking about people overall not some specific person but yeah that was my opinion. I am glad you take the necessary precautions unfortunately most do not.

 

[KingMamba]

Here is an example for all on what is a genuinely intelligent discussion about this event and the related issue of guns in America.

What is a 'constitution' (lower case)? It is essentially a document that set the political tone of a country and that it has philosophical and legal supremacy over the land. Any proposal to be a law can come from anyone but it has to be held against this document to see if the proposal is 'constitutional', in other words, does this proposal go against that philosophical tone. If it does not, then that document will exercise its legal supremacy and strike down that proposal via examinations, debates, and finally judgments. There is no time limit in that process.

The US Constitution (upper case) is unique to the US. Same for the Chinese Constitution (upper case) which was uniquely written for China.

CONSTITUTION OF THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

The Second Amendment in the US Constitution...

Second Amendment | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute

Did not came after the establishment of the US Constitution but was installed at the founding of that document. That mean the right to keep weapons (arms) by individuals is the philosophical and legal supremacy over the land. Any proposal to forbid the exercise of this right or even to control it must be held against this document. This issue was so important that it came after the First Amendment...

First Amendment | U.S. Constitution | LII / Legal Information Institute


The first thing the American Founders did in setting a philosophical supremacy over the land was to forbid the government from controlling speech and the freedom of expression. The First Amendment is a political statement.

The second thing they did was to enable the citizenry to defend the first in the event of a despotic and oppressive government via accessibility to weapons. The Second Amendment is also a political statement.

The right to self defense is already a given right. It is so natural of an understanding that no government can override this common sense. No government can ban anyone from defending himself against personal intrusions. So if there is a supremely endowed right to weapons then it is only inevitable that we would use weapons to defend ourselves. But unfortunately, that same supremely endowed right to weapons also gave the people the flexibility to use them for non political purposes such as armed robbery and senseless murders. That is a price we have to pay for that supremely endowed right. Nothing is free.

So in order to ban guns in America, the Second Amendment would have to be abolished via popular vote. Americans do not look at guns as being 'macho' but more as political statements and this is where non-Americans who have not lived in the US do not understand and have a gross misconception about the US Constitution regarding the Second Amendment.

That is also the reason why the Democrats and even some Republicans want to get rid of the second amendment. They know the real reason why guns were a guaranteed right for the people of this Republic. The founding fathers knew that people had to have a way to defend themselves from the government itself if it ever came to it and that scares them to death. The patriot act was just the beginning they want to remove weapons from the equation before they start taking away more liberties in the name of security. Well over our dead bodies, every American must stand up for the second amendment. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Like Ben Franklin once so famously said, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

 

[ahfatzia]

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people".

At the same day when Adam Lanza has a shoot rampage in Newtown, Connecticut.......a man stabs 22 students in China 8,000 miles away but fortunately none of them are fatal.


"The huge difference between this case and the U.S. is not the suspect, nor the situation, but the simple fact he did not have an effective weapon," said Dr. Ding Xueliang, a Harvard-educated sociologist at the University of Science and Technology in Hong Kong.

China attack illustrates U.S. gun law divide - CNN.com

 

[PITA]

My condolences to the families and friends of the victims of this tragic event. I'm truly sorry for their lose and I hope they will find the strength to move beyond this someday.

I agree that gun control in the states is a bigger issue and can't just be solved by banning it. This coward could have easily built a homemade explosive. If he did we can't go around banning household products. Spotting and dealing with troubled youth would be more effective.