How we let down our nation, our country..are we guilty?

[HAIDER]

I came across a personal experience in professional business environment. In up scale office my Pakistani collegue knowing him for long time refuse to introduce himself as Pakistani. And introduce himself as an Indian origin. His reason because white people don't like us, being Pakistani and muslim and Indian majority in office hate Pakistani (assuming).His personal view, which i totally discarded........
Left so many questions in my mind. Are we fair with our country ?...the most dishonesty for money and promotion. We leave behind our national identity ?.
Are we guity, something we never committed.

*This is just one example, we have so many of them.+

Please encourage our fellow Pakistani to show the courage and tell openly we are Pakistani.

 

[QADRI]

thats too sad...Haider i think you know that Indians involvement in crimes are greater then Pakistanis but whenever any indian criminal is caught he introduces himself as Pakistani....i am saying this with apology but i have seen from my eyes...and i also heard this comment from an Indian In canada...on the other hand we are opposite...thats not fair with our country....thats why the rep. of Pakistanis are much lower in foreign countries. and i am confident that most of you people know about this.

 

[Energon]

I'm in a field that has it's fair share of Caucasian Americans as well as foreigners, particularly Indians. I have never once seen anyone display dislike for someone simply because he or she were Pakistani... in fact, the relationship I see here between Indians and Pakistanis is far more cordial than anywhere else.

I honestly cannot think of a good reason why someone in the corporate world would need to do something like this. In the retail and food service industry I often see non-Indian South Asians label their businesses as "Indian"; but that is because in many cases if they aren't specifically catering to the diaspora of their particular community, it affects their profits. The assumption is that non South Asian clientèle seem to recognize the word "Indian" a lot more, link it to something "exotic" and don't mind paying an exaggerated amount for it. However this again has nothing to do with people disliking Pakistanis and as I mentioned earlier, does not seem to translate to the corporate world.

 

[IndianMunda]

Yes, I agree with energon.

India has invested huge money (directly and indirectly both ) in brand building. Due to brand name some times south asian friends portray them self as Indian, this is just because of business sense. You can easily find Indian Restaurant in UK run by Bangladeshis, just because their country's brand name is not saleable.

MOD EDIT - RACIST POO POO

 

[roadrunner]

This is also true and I personally once faced, white people called me ****.

Unfortunately, it appears that when this word was coined, it was coined as an umbrella term for all south asian looking people. Since Indians are the most south asian looking people (paks appear more caucasian/non dravidic generally), it is mainly applied to Indians. Ironic, yes, and it is indeed a shame some people associate the Indian look with the Pakistani look, when it's not the case. This lends credence to Qadri's hypothesis that Indian criminals generally introduce themselves as Pakistanis, if you know what i mean.

And from what I've seen, Indians are hardly anymore accepted in the west than Pakistanis. So much for the "respect" you keep blabbering on about.

 

[HAIDER]

West see south asian as pre-1947 Indians. Obviously everyone is Indian for them.

 

[roadrunner]

West see south asian as pre-1947 Indians. Obviously everyone is Indian for them.

No dude. In the case he's on about, **** is (or was) a term for all south asians that look Indian (not Pakistani - very ironic).

Personally I think he should count himself fortunate to have been called a ****.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I say the Pakistanis should start branding their stuff as "Indus Cuisine" or "Indus Valley Cuisine", "The taste of The Karakorum" or "The Taste of the Himalayas" etc.

There is a lot in Pakistan that can be used ti convey the more exotic, while retaining the Pakistani identity.

The issue, IMO, is that the name "India" is akin to Asia (Asian cuisine), and was used as a general identifier for South Asia (and in some ways still is - Indian subcontinent) - but its adoption by the political entity to our East has resulted in a lot of issues in terms of distinguishing between cultures, cuisines, peoples etc.

While I have read criticism of the efforts of some Pakistanis to distinguish "Pakistani History" from "Indian History" as some sort of complex or continuation of hatred to somehow prove "distinctness" - I think the issue is simply one of "brand" or claiming ones "identity", which is getting all muddled up with few people distinguishing between "Modern India" (a nation) and "Ancient India" (a region).

 

[roadrunner]

I say the Pakistanis should start branding their stuff as "Indus Cuisine" or "Indus Valley Cuisine", "The taste of The Karakorum" or "The Taste of the Himalayas" etc.

There is a lot in Pakistan that can be used ti convey the more exotic, while retaining the Pakistani identity.

The issue, IMO, is that the name "India" is akin to Asia (Asian cuisine), and was used as a general identifier for South Asia (and in some ways still is - Indian subcontinent) - but its adoption by the political entity to our East has resulted in a lot of issues in terms of distinguishing between cultures, cuisines, peoples etc.

While I have read criticism of the efforts of some Pakistanis to distinguish "Pakistani History" from "Indian History" as some sort of complex or continuation of hatred to somehow prove "distinctness" - I think the issue is simply one of "brand" or claiming ones "identity", which is getting all muddled up with few people distinguishing between "Modern India" (a nation) and "Ancient India" (a region).

Ain't it so! Generally they (Indians) will accuse you of racism and being a Nazi if you so much as bring up historical facts like Indians as being distinct from Pakistanis. I've been banned from at least one Pakistani forum no less by Pakistani (perhaps western or rather youthful and hormonally unstable) moderators with the combined IQ of a gnat for pointing out such distinctness. To be honest, some Pakistanis deserve uniting with India, such is their short-sightedness of what is being pulled over their faces by some Indians.

 

[S-2]

It's hard to say the motivations of Haider's Pakistani collegue. I've known Americans who'd willfully dissemble their identity overseas as Canadians. I'd rather not travel than to dissemble if so fearful. I'm careful when I travel but not surreptitiously so. What's the point? We've all been ashamed of our nation at one time or another over something difficult or embarassing.

There's probably some difficulty among most Americans, not just white Americans but Hispanics, African-Americans, even east Asians who might have issues discerning the dominant racial features of Indians from Pakistanis or Sri Lankans. I think that I do but am easily fooled. Equally, Asians offer difficulties to many westerners-not just caucasians. Koreans and Japanese offer resemblances as do Koreans and Han Chinese, as example. My ex-girlfriend, Cantonese, was often confused as filipina by filipinos, who you'd imagine might know better!

 

[Energon]

I say the Pakistanis should start branding their stuff as "Indus Cuisine" or "Indus Valley Cuisine", "The taste of The Karakorum" or "The Taste of the Himalayas" etc.

There is a lot in Pakistan that can be used ti convey the more exotic, while retaining the Pakistani identity.

Actually I don't see why cuisines can't be branded as "Pakistani." I've always heard of the profit scale tilting towards the "Indian" label from random non Indian- South Asian restauranteurs I speak to in my city, but have never actually seen any hard evidence of this. IMO people might just be taking cues from their competitors.
I've also wondered why this phenomenon exists in the UK. People there are obviously more cognizant when it comes to the difference between Indians and Pakistanis; so how come the "Indian" brand is used as an umbrella for the entire cuisine?

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Please guys---let us not make a fool of ourselves in front of everyone---let us not tell the hole world what we really are---most indians and pakistanis look alike because we come from the same gene pool.

During the invasions or change of face---either by the muslims, or by the sikhs or hindus there were enough rapes and inter marriages done to have a nice mixed gene pool. The only people left out were the south indians and possibly towards bengal--i can be corrected on that.

People who are talking down about the dravdians are mistaken---the dravidians were a intellectually and technologically more superior race than their aryan counterparts---the design and engineering marvels that are still visible in south india of the dravidian culture far exceed the quality of the work of the aryans. Some of the ancient mandirs in south india show the mastery of their builders.

Now, interestingly, some historian write that the real true blue blooded aryans of india were killed during a major conflict in india before the muslims invaded india. For that reason, the muslim armies really didnot meet a real challenge in combat from the locals. I am going in a different direction from this thread.

If interested read this author " P Thomas " EPICS MYTHS AND LEGENDS OF INDIA, HINDU RELIGION CUSTOMS AND MANNERS, KAMA KALPA. The books werre printed in india during the early 1950's by D.B. TARAPOREVALA SONS & CO. PRIVATE LTD.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I hope no one was terribly offended by their posts getting deleted, but the direction of the discussion is taking a bit of nasty turn.

The point about the use of the P word being used as generic derogatory/racist slang for almost all South Asian ethnicities, rather than solely Pakistanis (as the slang would seem to imply), has been made.

Onto the subject of the thread and to quote S-2:

"What's the point? We've all been ashamed of our nation at one time or another over something difficult or embarassing."

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Actually I don't see why cuisines can't be branded as "Pakistani." I've always heard of the profit scale tilting towards the "Indian" label from random non Indian- South Asian restauranteurs I speak to in my city, but have never actually seen any hard evidence of this. IMO people might just be taking cues from their competitors.
I've also wondered why this phenomenon exists in the UK. People there are obviously more cognizant when it comes to the difference between Indians and Pakistanis; so how come the "Indian" brand is used as an umbrella for the entire cuisine?

On second thought, I agree that there isn't any evidence that the word "Pakistani" wouldn't be as attractive a brand as "Indian". But the word Indian is associated with most of the culture of South Asia now, and the reasoning goes back to my earlier argument of "Indian" being used in its historical context of the South Asian region, as well as apathy by successive Pakistani governments, especially Zia and post Zia completely ignoring Pakistan's pre-Islamic history, and therefore we have an entire generation that does not know/care about that rich history that made us the people we are today.

However historians still describe the history of South Asia pre 1947 as "Indian History" which I believe continues to enhance "brand India" (modern India getting the most benefit out of it), but does leave Pakistan with little - even the Indus Valley civilization is described as an "Indian civilization". The usage is correct in the context of "Ancient India", but most people will not make the distinction between the Indian State and the historical reference to the Indian region.

Hence while Pakistan may be just as recognizable, India is associated with more of the history and culture - and therefore the "exotic".

Does that make sense - or was I just rambling?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Mastan,

Spot on!

I posted some scientific paper on chromosomes of the people of "ancient" India.

For good reasons, I have not mentioned the slur that is attached to the theory that some wishes one to believe that they are the direct descendants of European, having similar features as the Greeks or Huns or whosoever visited, pillaged, and plundered the area we live in.

It is time people came to Mother Earth and realised what we are all worth and take it for good or for the worst.

I, for one, am proud for what I am and I don't require to hang on to the coattails of those who may have invaded and left their genes uninvited.

In fact, those with a deep inferiority complex are the ones who wish to discover new identities for themselves all the time.