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How to Overtake the Indian Armour ?

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MIG19s LOL LOL

Pak national are disputing that you are not a reliant on grant aid or CHINEASE military assistance
 
Sir soon we will get rid of this corrupt government and will INSHALLAH improve but still our armed forces are very well equipped and are ready to answer back with full force by any misadventure from India

Pakistani citizens are hoping that good strong government moves country towards progress but it has not happened till now ... forget about India attacking you unnecessarily and just concentrate on economic development and Pak will do well .... Your corrupt politicians keep brainwashing innocent civilians about Kashmir and divert from key issues of progress and development !
I am not sure if you will be able to understand this but make a clean civilian government powerful and not the military that will ensure Pakistan's steady growth ! Army will just think about equiping with more weapons and for that they need India as an excuse .. rather focus on alleviating poverty and root out corruption !
 
And a massive nation to feed and run govt too.

Massive nation to feed and govern ??? going by that "logic" its better Pak shortens its own boundaries and become a smaller nation with even smaller population than it is currently !!!
 
GOVTS dont feed people

PEOPLE work and feed themselves and pay the taxes

HENCE you have $325 billion in forex like india.
 
Najam Shitty is a pseudo intellectual who is the most ridiculed person among inteligencia, he also purports to the idea that Pakistan should have never been made and works for the TV channel whose 50% shares are ownd by the Vithal Group of India.

Zaid Hamid on the other hand, may not always make sense but atleast he is a true patriot and can discern between traitors, enemies and friends.

You don’t have to tell us who are Pakistan’s intellectual and who aren’t, because coming from the enemy, it’s the sign of the biggest idiocy one who imagine. Read some more Chanakya, then put it into practice, before that, be ready to be trashed. :girl_wacko:

Less talk more action please! Please be naive enough to try teaching us a lesson. Btw, that’s the same categorical BS the CCCP and US opoined when they attacked Afghanistan. And now your contracting their insidious narcissist behavior. Caution!

you thrash us? :rofl: here comes another war rhetoric propaganda preacher first protect your army GHQ and naval bases from terrorist attacks then talk about thrashing besides your defense minister and analysts have already said it why don't you stop being naive and actually look

Pakistan can never win a war with India - By Pakitani Journalist Najam Sethi -1.flv - YouTube

We cannot match India militarily: Pakistan defence minister - YouTube

Pakistan army half strong in front of India - Truth by Pakistani Defence Minister - YouTube

if anyones getting thrashed its you guys.


oh don't worry there will be action in 2014 when we elect Modi be naive enough to attack us then see what happens.
 
Interesting analysis. Just wondering why you left out Navy in all this.

Cold Start is an initiative designed and will be largely taken by the Army. The Army will be the centre of the attack, i have a hard time believing that the Army will let the Navy have all the glory.

BTW, how you will locate the IBG? To hit them you need there precise location while they are "supposed" to be agile? China can help you with sats, but as of now you are not integrated with them for real-time feed.

As soon as the IBG's will start crossing the border, they will be met up by PA infantry that is well dug in. There are thousands of mobile posts that are set through out the border to keep an eye on any movement from the Indian side. Indian Armour Formations are heavily monitored by Pakistan by several different assets and vice versa Pakistani Armour Formations are also heavily monitored by India. The F16's are equipped with DB110 reccon pods which are the most advanced in the world that can look deep inside India to get real time updates. It will be next to impossible for India to hide their axis of movement on a mobilization of this scale. As soon as the Indian IBG's start crossing the border and start taking punishment from PA defenders, PA will know exactly where the IBG's are and how much punch they are packing.

Next Q, who controls the trigger in PK? If I am not wrong, PA has the control. If IN does not cross border and uses its Navy and AF only, for whatever they achieve or not, how will PA will respond? If IA fights a defensive war, what PA will do?

It does not make any sense, it is highly unlikely if the Indian Army will sit out and let the Navy have all the glory. But for argument sakes, lets say that the IN decides to be the punch force and decides to duel it out with PN. IN without a doubt has a very impressive edge but not that impressive where it can simply overwhelm PN. PN can simply stay within its coastal waters, as soon as the IN enters Pakistan's waters it will be a fair target of dozens of coastal batteries of Harpoon II, C803 and C602 missiles which PN has set up. There is also the possibility of threat from the underwater by PN's very silent sub force. IN will take attrition and more so than PN as they will be the attacking force, off course if both the forces were duelling out in the open sea than the IN will annihilate PN. But if PN is fighting the war from the its coastal waters, its hard to see how the IN will dominate the battle in Pak's coastal waters. Another very important factor is the PAF, if they are not helping the Army in CAS missions than they will be free to help the PN, more headache for the IN. Most importantly, i find it hard to believe how India will justify the blockade to the international community of Pakistan's waters. If there is one thing the US Navy has always stood for, it is the idea of open seas and i find it hard to believe that India can change the mindset of the US for a principle they have held so dear for so long.

I guess you are aware that it will take atleast 12-hr before PK can launch any Nuclear missile. I am not sure even Nasr the Nuclear Warhead mated with missile. Not that PK cann't do that. Maintenance and Security will be headache.

NASR is a tactical nuke, its small and wont take more than an hour to assemble. Strategic nukes are a different ball game, they are big and take more time to assemble. But i dont even know why we are talking about nukes here, the last thing PA Generals want is a nuclear war because they know that it will fry up the entire South Asia.

Now lets assume PK uses its Nuke card. Well you can not fire all your warhead like 1-2-3. I am novice, but I on't think your first wave will be of more than 10 warhead. Lets assume you are successful in that. What that means?

That means India will fire every nuclear weapon in her arsenal, if Pakistan does decides to use the nuke card on a strategic level, you can be sure that every nuclear warhead in Pakistan's arsenal will be fired.

Hitting IN armed forces at 10 points will not give you anything. And if you hit civilian target than you are still left with military might of IN to deal with. After this IN has to make play. What if IN does not uses its Nukes? And uses all its conventional firepower against PK.Do you think even your all weather friend CN will come to to your rescue in that case. Well IN can take time to do whatever with PK with its own leisure time. After being the victim of PK nukes, whatever we do using conventional means will not be contested. Atleast for sometime which is all we wil need.

If nukes are fired, there wont be a South Asia anymore. I sincerely pray to God that i never have to see that day.

Its so true. There is a thread in about PK Rail Loco problems.
Look what IN is buying in last decade. Compare the amnt IN is spending on logistics enhancement v/s fighting platform

In 2002 PA mobilized its divisions from as far away as Balochistan and KP in less than 2 weeks, they were at our Eastern borders. That was in 2002, PA has cut down their mobilization time by days. Mobility is one thing that PA can pride itself upon, this is why i always say that there is no way the IA can beat PA to the border in terms of time.
 
Cold Start is an initiative designed and will be largely taken by the Army. The Army will be the centre of the attack, i have a hard time believing that the Army will let the Navy have all the glory.

I think so too.

As soon as the IBG's will start crossing the border, they will be met up by PA infantry that is well dug in. There are thousands of mobile posts that are set through out the border to keep an eye on any movement from the Indian side. Indian Armour Formations are heavily monitored by Pakistan by several different assets and vice versa Pakistani Armour Formations are also heavily monitored by India. The F16's are equipped with DB110 reccon pods which are the most advanced in the world that can look deep inside India to get real time updates. It will be next to impossible for India to hide their axis of movement on a mobilization of this scale. As soon as the Indian IBG's start crossing the border and start taking punishment from PA defenders, PA will know exactly where the IBG's are and how much punch they are packing.

The idea is to rapidly infiltrate multiple locations simultaneously. The PA will probably know where to find the IBG's, the question here is one of priorities and capabilities. The IBG's are supposed to be mobile. Moreover, the IA has recently spent billions procuring mobile air defense systems like the Israeli Spyder and the Akash, not to mention all the tank upgrades/purchases. The IA's job is to simply concentrate firepower in localized regions and establish a foothold behind enemy lines. The IAF and SAM systems will be used to maintain the same.

The PA will almost certainly know that an attack is imminent. What they wouldn't know however, is where, which is the IA's primary advantage. Then it's simply a question of numbers and resources, which is why I said its basically boils down to priority targets and the cost. Last but not least, the IBG's will be a prime target in case things get out of hand, ie nuclear. Pakistan will use tactical nukes (diplomatic suicide) on the IBG's before it nukes civilian targets. India will probably lob a few nukes of its own in response.

I should mention before I go on that nobody expects India to emerge unscathed. Pakistan commands a formidable military so the IA has factored in its losses. India doesn't want to take over Pakistan, it wants to draw the PA out and have a brawl. If nothing else, India has numbers and diplomatic clout. They can sustain and recover from a conflict much faster than Pakistan. With economic woes and faltering allies, Pakistan will be left with no one to turn to but China. Chances are the PA will never have access to the kind of funds and equipment it has now. At least not enough to match India in another war. The hope is maul the PA enough to compel the GOP into complying and ceding some ground on outstanding issues.

It does not make any sense, it is highly unlikely if the Indian Army will sit out and let the Navy have all the glory. But for argument sakes, lets say that the IN decides to be the punch force and decides to duel it out with PN. IN without a doubt has a very impressive edge but not that impressive where it can simply overwhelm PN. **** But if PN is fighting the war from the its coastal waters, its hard to see how the IN will dominate the battle in Pak's coastal waters.

The IN wouldn't come anywhere near the Pakistani coast. They can simply impose a blockade hundreds of miles out at sea.

Another very important factor is the PAF, if they are not helping the Army in CAS missions than they will be free to help the PN, more headache for the IN.

Once again, India's going to take a few hits, but the PAF has to worry about a much larger IAF.

Most importantly, i find it hard to believe how India will justify the blockade to the international community of Pakistan's waters. If there is one thing the US Navy has always stood for, it is the idea of open seas and i find it hard to believe that India can change the mindset of the US for a principle they have held so dear for so long.

India will use a catastrophic terrorist attack as justification. Even if all else fails, the one thing India can do is muster intl' support. India and America agree on Islamic terrorists so I don't think the GOI will have any trouble on that front.

NASR is a tactical nuke, its small and wont take more than an hour to assemble. Strategic nukes are a different ball game, they are big and take more time to assemble. But i dont even know why we are talking about nukes here, the last thing PA Generals want is a nuclear war because they know that it will fry up the entire South Asia.

- Nasr is a short range tactical missile. It can be mated with both conventional and unconventional warheads.

- You have to factor in the decision making process. As far as I know, India and Pakistan are way behind on the nuclear curve (just like everything else). India has only recently setup a nuclear command. In any case, the warheads and missiles are kept in separate facilities. Mating the two will require a lot of time and an incredible amount of security. In short, both sides will see it coming. The rest of the nuclear powers house their missiles in fortified bunkers or boomers. The decision making process (assets, targets etc) has been streamlined over 50 years of nuclear roulette.

That means India will fire every nuclear weapon in her arsenal, if Pakistan does decides to use the nuke card on a strategic level, you can be sure that every nuclear warhead in Pakistan's arsenal will be fired.

Nah, neither side is that stupid. We'll kill a few hundred thousand soldiers at worst.

If nukes are fired, there wont be a South Asia anymore. I sincerely pray to God that i never have to see that day.

You know, the planet will hardly even notice unless it affects the ozone. A slowdown in India or Pakistan will have close to no affect on the global economy.

In 2002 PA mobilized its divisions from as far away as Balochistan and KP in less than 2 weeks, they were at our Eastern borders. That was in 2002, PA has cut down their mobilization time by days. Mobility is one thing that PA can pride itself upon, this is why i always say that there is no way the IA can beat PA to the border in terms of time.

That's mostly because of Pakistan's small size.
 
Here pakistani national see link

720 T90 in service today & 170 ARJUNS

Also 60 Smerch mbrl & pinka x 80 MBRL

Equipment of the Indian Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan has 220 AL khlaids & 300 T85

Pakistan Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

to be fair i dont think there is too much to choose between the land armies. ITS AIR POWER AND NAVAL power where india will wreck real damage. Combined with INDIA,S massive forex reserves and financially ability to fight/prolong war much longer
Sir exact numbers of AL KHALID is not know because the number mentioned in wikkipedia is almost 5 years old so AL Khalid according to my reports are more than 600 in Service and more numbers are produced same stands for Al Zarrar

---------- Post added at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 AM ----------

Pakistani citizens are hoping that good strong government moves country towards progress but it has not happened till now ... forget about India attacking you unnecessarily and just concentrate on economic development and Pak will do well .... Your corrupt politicians keep brainwashing innocent civilians about Kashmir and divert from key issues of progress and development !
I am not sure if you will be able to understand this but make a clean civilian government powerful and not the military that will ensure Pakistan's steady growth ! Army will just think about equiping with more weapons and for that they need India as an excuse .. rather focus on alleviating poverty and root out corruption !
Sir Kashmir is old issue and every time it is proves Kashmiris don't want to live with Indians they are part of Pakistan and sooner or later they will be freed from Indian occupation
 
Sir Kashmir is old issue and every time it is proves Kashmiris don't want to live with Indians they are part of Pakistan and sooner or later they will be freed from Indian occupation

When are you going to do that Sir?
 
Oh great atleast now know the difference.

Abt developmen n operational? why post abt aura,lca? both r on drawing board while the ucav is still on paper.

CH-3 has been ordered while Burraq is under development... n both r UCAVs.


You didn't see the posted images of Nishant, Lakshya etc.... BTW add IAI Heron and IAI Searcher to the list also...



1000 in service really? in 2 year india has now 1000 operational t-90s? must be the use of black magic? :rofl:

India as of right now....has around 400+ or -... of them in service n might-will get 1000 by the end of 2020.


No it has been 11 years...
Initially contract for 310 "T-90S" signed in 2001.A contract, worth $800 million, was signed on October 26, 2006, for another 330 T-90M MBTs that were to be built with locally-sourced raw materials.A third contract, worth $1.23 billion, was signed in December 2007 for 347 upgraded T-90Ms, the bulk of which will be licence-assembled by HVF.The Indian Army would begin receiving its first T-90M main battle tank (MBT) in completely knocked-down condition from Russia’s Nizhny Tagil-based Uralvagonzavod JSC by the end of 2009. In all, India plans to have 310 T-90S and 1,330 T-90M tanks in service by 2020 (total of 1,657 tanks by 2020)

968 T72M1 have been upgraded by the Heavy vehicles factory (HVF), While requests for proposal for upgrading approximately 1,000 other T-72's have been sent to various firms in Israel, Russia, Poland and France

T-90 Bhisma

310+330+347= 987 MBTs and last order was made in 2007...
Further orders of latest variant T-90AM is expected and would be around 690 ordered by 2020.


And the sources r? initially ind army ordered just 120.. than another 120.. when did it order 248 more? post sources.


Arjun set for formal induction into Army - Times Of India
That's 124 earlier +124 ordered on 17th May 2010....
Plus a further order of 248 mk II Versions were made this year...


India operates 1800 t-72s not 2100.... and provide a source of the 1000 tanks with new thermal sights? even 1000 are to be upgraded it would take years..

Lol.. chechnya,iraq ...... shytty loader.. bit soldiers arms of... nice tank..:lol:


Thermal Imaging system for T-72 tanks - India - DNA







240+ arjuns
400+ t-90s
1800 t-72
and other obsolete tanks... indian armour?



Ordered in mid 2000s.. now in service.. with upgraded AK-I... AK-II will form the backbone of PA armour. 1300+ are to be inducted after 2013.




All are identical to T-84 ..it was further upgraded with help frm france.. fcs,thermal sights,DU(HIT)etc etc


More like 400...

600+ In service.


We had more than 1200+ in 1990... all are to be phased out with AKs n AZs.


That shitty loader was incorporated in Chinese Type 99 MBTs...
And that tank(upgraded varient) could not be penetrated by latest DU penetrators of US Army...
No Indian Army operated 2500 T-72M1 MBTs but only about 2000 have been shortlisted for extensive upgrades...
Why don't you look for the source itself.... 968 T-72M1s have been upgraded to Ajeya standards by HVF....
The tender for the upgrade of another 1000 has been floated....
And about T-80/T-84 a major drawback is its fuel efficiency perhaps the reason further tanks were not ordered by Pakistan Army...




I remember 1 being hit by 8 RPGs,mines n suicide bombers in swat city... and the crew survived..


Your source for the Claim... If that is true then... your Army is foolish wasting money on Al Khalid I/II/III/IV etc..etc...



Are u going to war today? ... on call of duty game perhaps?


A discussion is made on current capabilities and not of futures...


I provided links.. google them.


Both Air planes have well past their lifetime and don't fire BVR weapons...



How many 5th gen jets does india have as of right now? and do u think PAF will not get 5th gen jets to counter them? u must be living in fools paradise.


My reply was on your audacious claims of inducting 300 JF 17 block III, 150 FC 20 etc....
Again does not matter what I think... we are yet to see any step in that direction....

2 Sqds were ordered this year also remember?

150 is the total fleet PAF will have till maybe 2016-18.


Source of your Information and again talk some sense and stop bring we'll have this and we'll have that...


Go read what i said again... Blk-II is around the corner n so is its stealthy variant.. and its been posted in various threads go read JF info pool thread.


Yes and an alien ship is also around the corner.... stop making a clown of yourself :rofl:
 
Santro Baba , should this thread be made sticky ?
 
India has already shown it can intercept all Pakistani SRBM's so battle field weapons like Nasr are out of question all we have to do is equip infantry/tank columns with mobile Akash SAM's so battle field range/SRBM missiles are taken out of the scenario in terms of strategic crisis we can already intercept Ghauri 1 and Shaheen 1 missiles through PAD and AAD and soon ability to intercept Ghauri 2 and Shaheen 2 will be achieved.
 
Pakistan cannot susstain a WAR at the current time, when the Goverment needs foreign donation for the victims of floods.

kid inida needs foreign donations for feeding their starving people, see who is worse? how can India sustain a long war when your so-called 1.5 trillion economy is in red debt, and almost all of your weapons and equipments are directly bought from foreign countries?
 
India has already shown it can intercept all Pakistani SRBM's so battle field weapons like Nasr are out of question all we have to do is equip infantry/tank columns with mobile Akash SAM's so battle field range/SRBM missiles are taken out of the scenario in terms of strategic crisis we can already intercept Ghauri 1 and Shaheen 1 missiles through PAD and AAD and soon ability to intercept Ghauri 2 and Shaheen 2 will be achieved.

Theek hai sardar jee , i can take your word for it , does that mean that we are doomed ? ;)
 
kid inida needs foreign donations for feeding their starving people, see who is worse? how can India sustain a long war when your so-called 1.5 trillion economy is in red debt, and almost all of your weapons and equipments are directly bought from foreign countries?

Spewing bull$hit are we ? ..an ability to sustain war depends on reserves both economic as well material and not debt(US sustaining two war despite their massive debts, Entire Europe fought through the World war 2 despite incurring massive debts) ..do you really want to compare Indian and Pakistani economic reserves or who has more reliable weapon suppliers.

BTW did you know China takes aid to feed its poor or din't you?
 
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