How the US sees Israel- My POV

[Foggy_Bottom]

A widely attributed quote prior to the last Presidential election had unnamed US administration officials call Netanyahu " Chickenshit" "Aspergery". I will add one that I have heard myself, " Weak minded opportunist"

He acts like the Mayor of Jerusalem.
The relationship is actually quite acronymous compared what we are led to believe. Most of this stems from Bibi being too "chickenshit" from reaching any accommodation towards peace with the Palestinians. His stubbornness on rapidly adding buildings in disputed lands. All of this based on his need for political expediency and pleasing the hard right of his constituency.

The one silver lining we have is that Bibi is too scared to launch an attack on Iran, thus giving us ( U.S.) the room to negotiate a deal for now. Frankly, many among us feel that the window to attack Iran was there about 3 years ago and Bibi missed it because while he speaks bravado, he is actually too scared to take the leap.

Israel and the U.S., have disagreed from time to time. Previous American administrations have also clashed with Israel behind closed doors because of it aggressive settlement building policies. But in all of my time, this current period shows a sustained contempt for each other. All is not good as one thinks it is in Washington.

 

[Steve781]

Is the US State Department a lot more pro Arab than the politicians? In Britain our Foreign Office is famous for its "Arabists".

 

[SipahSalar]

Israel's ties to Obama administration cannot be confused with its ties to USA. They are independant of each other.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

Is the US State Department a lot more pro Arab than the politicians? In Britain our Foreign Office is famous for its "Arabists".

Let me first say that we are career civil servants not attached to any political party. And although our singular goal is to look out for what's best for our nation, we are not oblivious to the word compromise.

Our Arab affiliation is all security driven. Be it oil security, regional stability, non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, terrorism, Salafist, Wahhabism - what have you that threatens world security.

We are acutely aware of what Bibi has been doing for a while now vis-à-vis Palestine, and it has been completely disingenuous and irresponsible. The only thing he’s interested in is protecting himself from political defeat. As someone aptly put it and was quoted saying, "He’s not Rabin, he’s not Sharon, and he’s certainly no Begin. He’s got no guts.”.

Among us civil servants, and this not giving Hamas and Palestinians a pass, we feel that Israel has no interest in engaging with Palestine for now. As such, has lost a lot of the goodwill towards them. How I wish Arafat had taken the deal.

Britain is no different, and for the sake of European security, you need the Arabs on your side. However, it should not be mistaken as capitulating to them. In the specific case of Britain or Europe for that matter, they don't come with a baggage of unequivocal support and the closeness we share with Israel. That is why you see Britain as being more vocal in pointing out the shortcomings with Israel's stance.

Let me put this way- It is not important( while it is in the larger sense), what Palestinians and Hamas are willing do. Rather it is critical for us to show that Israel, America and its supporters have the high moral ground, by showing that we are more than willing to meet more than half way.

If we continue down the path of Bibi's outlook , we lose that ground.

 

[FaujHistorian]

A widely attributed quote prior to the last Presidential election had unnamed US administration officials call Netanyahu " Chickenshit" "Aspergery". I will add one that I have heard myself, " Weak minded opportunist"

He acts like the Mayor of Jerusalem.
The relationship is actually quite acronymous compared what we are led to believe. Most of this stems from Bibi being too "chickenshit" from reaching any accommodation towards peace with the Palestinians. His stubbornness on rapidly adding buildings in disputed lands. All of this based on his need for political expediency and pleasing the hard right of his constituency.

The one silver lining we have is that Bibi is too scared to launch an attack on Iran, thus giving us ( U.S.) the room to negotiate a deal for now. Frankly, many among us feel that the window to attack Iran was there about 3 years ago and Bibi missed it because while he speaks bravado, he is actually too scared to take the leap.

Israel and the U.S., have disagreed from time to time. Previous American administrations have also clashed with Israel behind closed doors because of it aggressive settlement building policies. But in all of my time, this current period shows a sustained contempt for each other. All is not good as one thinks it is in Washington.

interesting take. Much of this is kind of known through the news outlets.


I disagree with the subject line though.

US view of country X is dependent on many factors and a lot more than just the state department's view.

Pentagon is another big factor.

And then we have alphabet soup of many other agencies and think tanks that drive US view during a specific administration.

Thus if look at the sum total of shapers and shakers and movers in DC, state department is but one of the many voices.

So I respect your views as you have been close to action than most of us on this forum will ever be.

But still US policies re: israel will be formed and updated with a lot of inputs from a lot of organizations.

Peace


p.s. I hope Israel and PLO come to some agreement where both ARabs and israelis could live in peaceful neighbors.

 

[AUz]

Let me first say that we are career civil servants not attached to any political party. And although our singular goal is to look out for what's best for our nation, we are not oblivious to the word compromise.

Our Arab affiliation is all security driven. Be it oil security, regional stability, non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, terrorism, Salafist, Wahhabism - what have you that threatens world security.

We are acutely aware of what Bibi has been doing for a while now vis-à-vis Palestine, has been completely disingenuous and irresponsible. The only thing he’s interested in is protecting himself from political defeat. As someone aptly put it and was quoted, "He’s not Rabin, he’s not Sharon, and he’s certainly no Begin. He’s got no guts.”.

Among us civil servants, and this not giving Hamas and Palestinians a pass, we feel Israel has no interest in engaging with Palestine for now, and thus has lost a lot of the goodwill towards them. How I wish Arafat had taken the deal.

Britain is no different, and for the sake of European security, you need the Arabs on your side. However, it should not be mistake it as capitulating to them. In the specific case of Britain or Europe for that matter, they don't come with a baggage of unequivocal support and the closeness we share with Israel. That is why you we see Britain as being more vocal in pointing out the shortcomings with Israel's stance.

Let me put this way- It is not important( while it is in the larger sense), what Palestinians and Hamas are willing do, rather it is critical for us to show that Israel, America and its supporters keep having the high moral ground, by showing that we meet more than half way. If we continue down the path of Bibi's outlook , we lose that ground.

I have a back-ground in International Relations and I have studied these things quite a bit..

To your point of showing U.S-Israel having a moral ground....Do you REALLY (?!) believe that? REALLY?!

Israel has been oppressing, occupying, and murdering Palestinians for decades. It is not a liberal democracy like us. It is openly an ethnic state (which can be ignored). Moreover, it is a blatant colonial power that subjugates an entire peoples and cultures..and many of Israeli politicians refuse to even acknowledge the existence of Palestinian peoples and peddle myths like "Oh, they are all Arabs. Made up people etc."

Do you believe that world is stupid and can't see through all of this? When entire world...literally almost entire world..votes to probe Israel's murderous assault on Gaza...and U.S is the only "no" there...Do you think this image gives the U.S 'moral high ground' in the world?

When we discussed Israel-Palestine issue in our International Relations classes at University of California, majority of my fellow peers...lets just say...weren't very 'fond' of what Israel was doing/is doing to Palestinians. And no, we weren't some emotional liberal bleeding hearts. We were fairly well-educated, unbiased, calculated people who were looking at the issue with our Professors (many of which, by the way, were Israeli historians themselves and had written books on Israeli security vision etc).

The U.S administration is a "chickensh!t" as well. They should have put immense pressure on Israel to accept a two-state solution around 67 borders. But pressuring Israel will hurt them in our local political land-scape..and hence you see nothing being done to stop..what quite frankly is..the murder of any possible two-state solution.

(500,000+ settlers on Palestinian territories, PA's popularity all time low, Hamas well-grounded to win a major electoral victory in all of Palestine if elections happen....and all of this because *we* didn't do anything to stop bibi and other Israeli leaders to stop the occupation and settlement activity in Palestinian territories).

I wonder what do you have to say about all of this.

 

[Not Sure]

Is the US State Department a lot more pro Arab than the politicians? In Britain our Foreign Office is famous for its "Arabists".

Yes, it is.

They are caught with their hands in the cookie jar many times every year. Just a few months back I myself caught them promoting a Jihadist Mullah who had once called for Muslims to kill American soldiers wherever they could be found because it was the "duty of all Muslims".

And then when you look at those who make up for advisers in the State Dept, you'd puke. Entire Brotherhood lives there.

 

[Steve781]

Yes, it is.

They are caught with their hands in the cookie jar many times every year. Just a few months back I myself caught them promoting a Jihadist Mullah who had once called for Muslims to kill American soldiers wherever they could be found because it was the "duty of all Muslims".

And then when you look at those who make up for advisers in the State Dept, you'd puke. Entire Brotherhood lives there.

Arabism is simply believing that oil rich Arab states with a population of 250 million have more to offer than oil poor Israel with 7 million people. It has nothing to do with favouring groups like the Muslim Brotherhood because most of the Gulf State rulers despise them. Whether you agree with it or not it hardly makes no sense.

 

[Falcon29]

A widely attributed quote prior to the last Presidential election had unnamed US administration officials call Netanyahu " Chickenshit" "Aspergery". I will add one that I have heard myself, " Weak minded opportunist"

He acts like the Mayor of Jerusalem.
The relationship is actually quite acronymous compared what we are led to believe. Most of this stems from Bibi being too "chickenshit" from reaching any accommodation towards peace with the Palestinians. His stubbornness on rapidly adding buildings in disputed lands. All of this based on his need for political expediency and pleasing the hard right of his constituency.

The one silver lining we have is that Bibi is too scared to launch an attack on Iran, thus giving us ( U.S.) the room to negotiate a deal for now. Frankly, many among us feel that the window to attack Iran was there about 3 years ago and Bibi missed it because while he speaks bravado, he is actually too scared to take the leap.

Israel and the U.S., have disagreed from time to time. Previous American administrations have also clashed with Israel behind closed doors because of it aggressive settlement building policies. But in all of my time, this current period shows a sustained contempt for each other. All is not good as one thinks it is in Washington.

What is US vision for future of I/P conflict? To maintain status-quo?

 

[Not Sure]

Arabism is simply believing that oil rich Arab states with a population of 250 million have more to offer than oil poor Israel with 7 million people. It has nothing to do with favouring groups like the Muslim Brotherhood because most of the Gulf State rulers despise them. Whether you agree with it or not it hardly makes no sense.

Then I certainly mistook what you meant.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

I have a back-ground in International Relations and I have studied these things quite a bit..

To your point of showing U.S-Israel having a moral ground....Do you REALLY (?!) believe that? REALLY?!

Israel has been oppressing, occupying, and murdering Palestinians for decades. It is not a liberal democracy like us. It is openly an ethnic state (which can be ignored). Moreover, it is a blatant colonial power that subjugates an entire peoples and cultures..and many of Israeli politicians refuse to even acknowledge the existence of Palestinian peoples and peddle myths like "Oh, they are all Arabs. Made up people etc."

Do you believe that world is stupid and can't see through all of this? When entire world...literally almost entire world..votes to probe Israel's murderous assault on Gaza...and U.S is the only "no" there...Do you think this image gives the U.S 'moral high ground' in the world?

When we discussed Israel-Palestine issue in our International Relations classes at University of California, majority of my fellow peers...lets just say...weren't very 'fond' of what Israel was doing/is doing to Palestinians. And no, we weren't some emotional liberal bleeding hearts. We were fairly well-educated, unbiased, calculated people who were looking at the issue with our Professors (many of which, by the way, were Israeli historians themselves and had written books on Israeli security vision etc).

The U.S administration is a "chickensh!t" as well. They should have put immense pressure on Israel to accept a two-state solution around 67 borders. But pressuring Israel will hurt them in our local political land-scape..and hence you see nothing being done to stop..what quite frankly is..the murder of any possible two-state solution.

(500,000+ settlers on Palestinian territories, PA's popularity all time low, Hamas well-grounded to win a major electoral victory in all of Palestine if elections happen....and all of this because *we* didn't do anything to stop bibi and other Israeli leaders to stop the occupation and settlement activity in Palestinian territories).

I wonder what do you have to say about all of this.

I'm not sure what you want me to say to your rant. If you were my student I would have given you a F.

You sit here and say that you in an American university that allows you to even discuss the issue, and all you have shown above is being too darn emotional to sit in that class !

You are not here in our country to learn International relationships from an objective view, rather you sound like the typical run of the mill anti semite.

Seriously, stop with using the word " we" . We are America and not some bastion of settling your scores against the Jews.

 

[AUz]

I'm not sure what you want me to say to your rant. If you were my student I would have given you a F.

You sit here and say that you in an American university that allows you to even discuss the issue, and all you have shown above is being too darn emotional to sit in that class !

You are not here in our country to learn International relationships from an objective view, rather you sound like the typical run of the mill anti semite.

Seriously, stop with using the word " we" . We are America and not some bastion of settling your scores against the Jews.

lol, I wonder how an idiot like you even got a job at the state department...but then again, there is hell lot of a difference between old folks (you) and younger generation here.

What exactly in my post above gave you any hint..even the slightest one..that i'm out there to "settle scores with jews" OR I'm an anti-semite?...Are you for real?!

May be my writing style is what bugging you...I write as a student who isn't 40 yet...and hence I'm casual/more rant-ish while writing in an online public forum.

You are may be more professional...

But still, there is no excuse for someone who looks at my comment above..and straight way makes up his mind "Oh he is an anti-semite...oh he is out there to hate jews and settle scores etc."

This is just ridiculous.

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

What is US vision for future of I/P conflict? To maintain status-quo?

If you don't recognize Israel as a jewish state, there will be no peace. If it was Abbas and his team- there is a way to peace. It is quite achievable with them as partners.

But as long as Hamas is a player, there will be no peace. Hamas loses its mandate and external funding if there is one. Like it or not- Hamas is the poison pill to any chance to further peace.

 

[BDforever]

If you don't recognize Israel as a jewish state, there will be no peace. If it was Abbas and his team- there is a way to peace. It is quite achievable with them as partners.

But as long as Hamas is a player, there will be no peace. Hamas loses its mandate and external funding if there is one. Like it or not- Hamas is the poison pill to any chance to further peace.

what is your view about recent israeli soilder's shooting and injuring 5 years old kid ?

btw don't forget to watch the documenty

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

what is your view about recent israeli soilder's shooting and injuring 5 years old kid ?

btw don't forget to watch the documenty

Every case where innocent civilians get caught up in violence is truly regrettable.