How the US sees Israel- My POV

[AUz]

If you don't recognize Israel as a jewish state, there will be no peace. If it was Abbas and his team- there is a way to peace. It is quite achievable with them as partners.

But as long as Hamas is a player, there will be no peace. Hamas loses its mandate and external funding if there is one. Like it or not- Hamas is the poison pill to any chance to further peace.

Why Palestinians have to recognize Israel as a "jewish" state? In International system, countries are recognize as mere countries..not as "jewish" or "christian" nation-states.

Sure, Israel can define itself whatever the heck way it wants..but asking other nation-states to "recognize" it as such is a stupidity as International system doesn't work like that.

Palestinians just have to recognize Israel within 67' borders. That's it. They don't need to recognize "Jewish state" thingy...

Since you claim to have worked in state dept, you'd know how International system works and how utterly stupid Israel looks when it says to Palestinians "Recognize Israel as a Jewish state"....

What do you have to say about this?

There is a big difference in studying international relations and commenting on someone who is a part of the state in implementing them.

It is better to step back and listen and learn---what you read in books and discuss in class is not the same as what is being practiced in the field.

I know that. But the guy just doesn't come off qualified enough to have worked in the state department at all.

He jumps at me with "anti-semite, jew-hater" visceral when I did not even say anything remotely to that sort.

Moreover, he says things like "Unless Palestinians recognize Israel as a jewish state...there'd be no peace"...Now, even basic student of IR will tell you that under International system and legal code, you don't recognize countries as "jewish" state or "islamic" state.

All countries are same with same rights and responsibilities. So I wonder how someone who have supposedly worked in the state department uses such amateurish language. Even John Kerry has said that Palestinians don't need to recognize Israel as a "Jewish" state...

So pardon me if I don't get all impressed by his username only.

 

[Zabaniyah]

A very intriguing insight sir.

The one mistake that the Palestinians made in my view is allowing desperation to creep in. And what did that achieve? That, along with all sorts of weird ideas from Islamists around the globe committing unspeakable acts of evil. Weak...

As for Israel, their military incursions make them look careless and complacent. I wonder if they are allowing that particular desperation to creep in. No doubt, Israel's right-wing political parties dominate the parliament that are voted by the people. There are people who are more extreme than Mr. Nathanyahu.

Okay, suppose that Israel get what it wants in the "Holy Land", what then? Would a nation ruled by near fanatics with nuclear weapons grow....hungry? That would be a question in the long run given the way things are going.

 

[raptor22]

The one silver lining we have is that Bibi is too scared to launch an attack on Iran, thus giving us ( U.S.) the room to negotiate a deal for now. Frankly, many among us feel that the window to attack Iran was there about 3 years ago and Bibi missed it because while he speaks bravado, he is actually too scared to take the leap..

What is your notion of attacking Iran? do you support it? what could America gain from such a plan?

 

[Foggy_Bottom]

What is your notion of attacking Iran? do you support it? what could America gain from such a plan?

I was thinking of starting a new thread about this and you forced me into it today . I will start one regardless, but honor your request and give you my unvarnished opinion here first. Fair warning- This is going to be tough and you are not going to like it.

Let me start first by saying that we appreciate and like the Iranian people, even so we have issues with the mullahs that run it.

Iranians are one the most brilliant people in man’s history and its own history shows them as once being the leaders in liberal arts, science, technology and culture. All of this unfortunately has had a shocking brake put on it by Ayatollahs and their religious ideology. We see Iran much like those young people who created the 'Happy' song video in Iran. We also see Iranian women as strong leaders while still being great Muslims.

Unfortunately, we do feel that we have to stop Iran from having the capability of producing Nuclear weapons. And as much as your government convinces you that they do not intend to do so, rather that there are only interested in civilian purposes and use, it is a blatant lie.


There are several reasons for our concern.

• Nuclear weapons in the hands of your leaders, whose reign is undeniably based on religiosity is very dangerous for the rest of the world. We sincerely fear your religious heads will use the weapon, and have no second thoughts about sacrificing all of Iran- as long as they see themselves as doing the work of the Prophet Mohammed.
• A nuclear Iran also means a cluster F for the middle east in terms of nuclear weapons proliferation. You get it means, KSA will then say they will need to get it, which means Egypt will want some and then Turkey and so and so forth. It puts the whole region in peril.
• Israel will be is dire straits and will mean America will be in one too, and gets us pulled into a nuclear arms race in that region.
• Proliferation of different kind where Iran, much like its support for Hamas/ Hezbollah and or all nefarious terrorists groups, starts pushing the technology or dirty bombs in to the hands of such groups.

 

[500]

Israel has been oppressing, occupying, and murdering Palestinians for decades.

Palestinians never experienced such a fast life standard growth in their history like under the Israeli rule. Israelis are also first ones who gave Palestinians a wide autonomy.

It is openly an ethnic state

With Arabic as official language.

and many of Israeli politicians refuse to even acknowledge the existence of Palestinian peoples and peddle myths like "Oh, they are all Arabs. Made up people etc."

Well until late 1960-es there were not any Palestinians (Jews were called Palestinians and Arabs were called either Arabs or South Syrians).

 

[raptor22]

I was thinking of starting a new thread about this and you forced me into it today . I will start one regardless, but honor your request and give you my unvarnished opinion here first. Fair warning- This is going to be tough and you are not going to like it.

Let me start first by saying that we appreciate and like the Iranian people, even so we have issues with the mullahs that run it.

Iranians are one the most brilliant people in man’s history and its own history shows them as once being the leaders in liberal arts, science, technology and culture. All of this unfortunately has had a shocking brake put on it by Ayatollahs and their religious ideology. We see Iran much like those young people who created the 'Happy' song video in Iran. We also see Iranian women as strong leaders while still being great Muslims.

Unfortunately, we do feel that we have to stop Iran from having the capability of producing Nuclear weapons. And as much as your government convinces you that they do not intend to do so, rather that there are only interested in civilian purposes and use, it is a blatant lie.

There are several reasons for our concern.

• Nuclear weapons in the hands of your leaders, whose reign is undeniably based on religiosity is very dangerous for the rest of the world. We sincerely fear your religious heads will use the weapon, and have no second thoughts about sacrificing all of Iran- as long as they see themselves as doing the work of the Prophet Mohammed.
• A nuclear Iran also means a cluster F for the middle east in terms of nuclear weapons proliferation. You get it means, KSA will then say they will need to get it, which means Egypt will want some and then Turkey and so and so forth. It puts the whole region in peril.
• Israel will be is dire straits and will mean America will be in one too, and gets us pulled into a nuclear arms race in that region.
• Proliferation of different kind where Iran, much like its support for Hamas/ Hezbollah and or all nefarious terrorists groups, starts pushing the technology or dirty bombs in to the hands of such groups.

Thanks, but you didn't mention that you support war or not?
Anyway, I do agree with you that nuclear weapon in the hands of fanatics is the last thing that any wise and sensible person would desire, actually it's catastrophic for humanity and should be prevented. In the wider context as far as nuclear weapon is a blind weaponry , therefore there shouldn't be any kind of WMD whether nuclear ones or chemical on the surface of earth.
In Iran people do respect your country , people and culture , you could go ask people who visited Iran, we have no problem with you folks but we've got serious issues with American government and its policies towards other nations. For instance on Iranian nuclear program we do believe you are the last one to speak regarding this issue , you know FYI the USA is the first country which made a bomb and used it against civilians (women, children and the elderly) and killed around 80k innocent people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and since then you've continued to maintain and develop your nukes to make them smaller and more destructive, base upon latest official report released by American D.O.D Pentagon in 2010 your administration possesses precisely 5113 nuclear warheads ready to turn the entire planet to ashes.
History shows that not only in Japan but in many cases you used WMDs against civilians:

1) The U.S. Military Dumped 20 Million Gallons of Chemicals on Vietnam from 1962 - 1971 During the USA war in Vietnam, a herbicide called Agent Orange was sprayed over the country. This substance was banned in the USA, because it contained Dioxin, a deadly carcinogenic (cancer producing) poison. This chemical weapon, which can be considered a weapon of mass destruction, was dumped on almost half of South Vietnam.

2) Israel Attacked Palestinian Civilians with White Phosphorus in 2008 - 2009

3) More than 300 tons of Depleted Uranium, another weapon of mass destruction, were fired by USA and UK aircraft and tanks during the 1991 Gulf War in Iraq.

4)The CIA Helped Saddam Hussein Massacre Iranians and Kurds with Chemical Weapons in 1988.
Foreignpolicy: Exclusive: CIA Files Prove America Helped Saddam as He Gassed Iran

5) The U.S. Military Littered Iraq with Toxic Depleted Uranium in 2003
​

As you see it's your secular leaders records on violence against people while Iranian religious leader didn't use any chemical weapons to counter Iraq when they were attacked by Iraqi dictator and its chemical weapons arsenal under your authorization and watchful eyes.
Now tell me when and where Iran used such weapons against human beings? who should we be afraid then?
If you are afraid of nuclear race you gotta put pressure on israel to disarm its weapons and then it's your turn.


By the end you have got no right to wage a war against us.