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How the situation in Pakistan has affected our psyche?

If you are Shia Muse bashing my head against a wall until it bleeds even won't be enough to apologize for the crimes of Wahabis and Deobandis. Don't know how it will work either as I consider myself neither (though our ancestors madrassa/university in Lucknow was deobandi-but secular/tolerant deobandi)... sorry Muse. Sorry Shias. It is our fault. We failed to condemn them-we have become separate communities rather than one Pakistanis. I will say I am with my Shia brothers but not long after Batman or some other will destroy all I try to achieve in terms of communal hamony...

No, HaviZ, I'm not Shi'ah, but a Sunni -- And it should not be Shi'ah but especially Sunni who should be thinking about what is being done in their name - It's so shameless, it's sacrilege, blasphemy!!

After the Shi'ah, they will come for us, we are not their kind of Sunni.

Peace and Forgiveness - my azz!
 
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No, HaviZ, I'm not Shi'ah, but a Sunni -- And it should not be Shi'ah but especially Sunni who should be thinking about what is being done in their name - It's so shameless, it's sacrilege, blasphemy!!

After the Shi'ah, they will come for us, we are not their kind of Sunni.

Peace and Forgiveness - my azz!

They came for the Ahmedis, I did nothing because I was not an Ahmedi
They came for the Hindus, I did nothing because I was not a Hindu
They came for the Shias, I did nothing because I was not a Shia
When they came for me there was no one left to raise a voice.

They are already coming after everyone else who counters the taliban narrative. Those merciless killers have killed enough of our people. We have to rise up someday. I hope we are close to reaching our threshold because I do not see a massive change.
 
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They came for the Ahmedis, I did nothing because I was not an Ahmedi
They came for the Hindus, I did nothing because I was not a Hindu
They came for the Shias, I did nothing because I was not a Shia
When they came for me there was no one left to raise a voice.

They are already coming after everyone else who counters the taliban narrative. Those merciless killers have killed enough of our people. We have to rise up someday. I hope we are close to reaching our threshold because I do not see a massive change.

Now you can understand better what I was saying about being optimistic - my optimism was centered around the Pakistan armed forces, now I realize how stupid that was -- So, I don't know and my whatever optimism I do have, closely guarded.
 
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After reading these artcles and posts I may be wrong ...but i feel when i think Pakistan is about people like MUSE,Havi and Fauji Histtorian too..then I really sad for you...My sadness does not anyway implicitly imply that i am in best of my situation or in best nation in this world...Rather i would like to say to people of Pakistan like Muse,Havi and Fauji Historian...I can understand your pain...In quest to dominate and decimate India..Pakistan somewhat lost its way.....I am 100% sure than in case the Kashmir would have been with Pakistan, then probably...Pakistan army and all these Mullahs who have done and brought your nation to such a state today, would not have happened.....I really pray GOD...for a successful and peaceful pakistan....at least for the people like MUSE,HAVI and Faujii like honest guys ....
 
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After reading these artcles and posts I may be wrong ...but i feel when i think Pakistan is about people like MUSE,Havi and Fauji Histtorian too..then I really sad for you...My sadness does not anyway implicitly imply that i am in best of my situation or in best nation in this world...Rather i would like to say to people of Pakistan like Muse,Havi and Fauji Historian...I can understand your pain...In quest to dominate and decimate India..Pakistan somewhat lost its way.....I am 100% sure than in case the Kashmir would have been with Pakistan, then probably...Pakistan army and all these Mullahs who have done and brought your nation to such a state today, would not have happened.....I really pray GOD...for a successful and peaceful pakistan....at least for the people like MUSE,HAVI and Faujii like honest guys ....


My dear dear dear K,

Thank you for your kind comments.

Now to reality.


Please do not feel sad.

What we do daily on the streets of Pakistan is much more than few lines on PDF.

There is a battle for hearts and mind going on. That is no different than what's going on in so many Muslims and NON-Muslim countries around the world, where anti-state forces have taken a hold.


I hate to see India dragged into this thread.

So please do not make this yet another thread about Pak-Ind mud-wrestling scene.

What India does to Pakistan and what Pakistan does to India should be left to some other thread.


And I urge you to not lump our brave jawans and officers with 2-bit Mullahs. This is an intellectual disservice to you as an intelligent and well-intentioned Indian.


Thank you
 
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My dear dear dear K,

Thank you for your kind comments.

Now to reality.


Please do not feel sad.

What we do daily on the streets of Pakistan is much more than few lines on PDF.

There is a battle for hearts and mind going on. That is no different than what's going on in so many Muslims and NON-Muslim countries around the world, where anti-state forces have taken a hold.


I hate to see India dragged into this thread.

So please do not make this yet another thread about Pak-Ind mud-wrestling scene.

What India does to Pakistan and what Pakistan does to India should be left to some other thread.


And I urge you to not lump our brave jawans and officers with 2-bit Mullahs. This is an intellectual disservice to you as an intelligent and well-intentioned Indian.


Thank you

I agree with you...
 
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Now you can understand better what I was saying about being optimistic - my optimism was centered around the Pakistan armed forces, now I realize how stupid that was -- So, I don't know and my whatever optimism I do have, closely guarded.


There may be ups and downs.

But Pakistan armed forces are still the defenders and so are our police and other law enforcement agents.

So please come to Pakistan and see it with your own eyes.

Sitting in UK and figuring out the true sense about Pakistan will not help you.


You come to any major city in Pakistan, and you will see that Jih@dis are failing

--- even when UK/US/Canada Pakistanis are pro-Jih@dis

OR/AND

--- even when UK/US/Canada Pakistanis are anti-army
AND/OR

--- even when UK/US/Canada Pakistanis continue spreading constipated conspiracy theories that include wierdest combo of America, china, Israel, and India

--- even when such constipated conspiracy theories help supply fodder for the Jih@dis and Talib-bozos


Why

Because sheer love of life by MAJORITY of Pakistanis is so overwhelming that Jih@dis have to retreat to less populated areas where they can use money coming from Wahabi Arab charities, and intellectual/financial support from UK/US/Canada leftie,commie and Islamists.


Peace
 
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Think, Pakistan, think
By M Zaidi
Published: February 17, 2013

The writer is a PhD in conflict studies and an independent security analyst. He has also taught at the University of Central Lancashire, UK

The average Pakistani, like me, is now probably much more worried about the situation in the country than a decade ago, since this now affects him directly. After all, he is supposed to be the expert on this, living in Pakistan itself. The problem is, for many Pakistanis, this is a second hand phenomenon reported for him by the TV channels and the media, so his knowledge may not be much better than what is reported on television. Thus, for example, one may not get very cogent replies about the poor socio-economic conditions of Pakistan when talking about the causation of this phenomenon to many ordinary Pakistanis, a group to which I claim membership to. What one will get though is the emotionality that now lies behind this phenomenon. Discussing politics and terrorism is the new coffee table talk for most Pakistanis in their homes, colleges, offices or street cafes. Almost inevitably, these discussions are spin-offs from media anchor views, which may limit self-reflection.

I may not necessarily agree with Ms Ayesha Jalal on her opinion that Pakistanis live on an unhealthy mixture of collective self-denial, but I do believe that as Pakistanis, we sometimes stop rationalising things at the expense of emotionalising them. I have met thousands of patriotic, God-fearing, honest, hard working, moderate and law-abiding Pakistanis, who believe that Pakistan is the bastion of Islam, Pakistan is the victim of outside forces, or perceptions to that effect. I don’t doubt that Pakistan has been a victim of the great geopolitical games in the past, and may very well continue to be. I also don’t refute the fact that notwithstanding the arguably secular motives of the founders of Pakistan, the country was obtained in the name of Islam. What I will propose is that whenever these or many other arguments, which affect us all, are brought up by seemingly educated, rational, moderate Pakistanis with exposure to the modern world, they are often tinged with emotionality.

Emotionality is, of course, not a bad thing, especially where passionate beliefs are concerned. However, sometimes this emotionality of ours is not amenable to the permeation of alternative ideas. Interrupt the flow of these emotions and you may be met with scepticism and even outright hostility or be branded unpatriotic or something like it. Again, that passion is common to many people of the world who have gained independence after great struggle and sacrifice, but there is a difference in the Pakistani narrative. It is now almost always the narrative of victimisation; Pakistan almost always seems to have been dismembered, not allowed to work, or conspired against. Again, that is not abnormal; states try to disrupt the growth of rival states that they deem as threats, and on the heels of such perceptions, the actions of many states in the world have been less than honourable. Violations of territorial sovereignty, interference in governance or espousing violence by outside forces are never condonable and should rightly be met with justified indignation.


However, this narrative needs to be tinged with some self-introspection as well. It just cannot be true that every malady that ails us currently is imposed by some outside entity and neither is it true that we have courted every problem that has befallen us; it has to be a mixture of many variables. Everyone will tell you that Pakistanis are by large sufferers of poor socio-economic opportunities; it’s partly true, but this should not detract from understanding the underlying political, social and cultural causative conditions. I do not believe that there is any Pakistani endemic inertia, which drives Pakistan closer to the abyss. Pakistan’s current imbroglio is a result of cause and effect, an inevitable causality which follows decades of neglect and mal-governance. However, even then, Pakistan continues to survive. Besieged by terrorism, unemployment, energy shortages, economic deficit, corruption and bad governance, Pakistan is very much there. We could probably blame some entity for any or all of our problems, but unless we make an informed analysis, we will not be able to make an informed decision. I could go on and on, but the point I want to make is that sometimes we need to sit down, individually and collectively, to think rationally about the problems that face us today, without indulging in emotionality which may overshadow logic. Of course, this may not solve all our problems immediately; rational thinking can bring about enormous benefits to society, but one cannot expect every decision reached in consequence to be immediately remedial or even effective. What this will achieve is that we may start getting closer to the roots of our problems. We may then learn to blame ourselves as much as we sometimes tend to blame others for our problems.
 
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After reading these artcles and posts I may be wrong ...but i feel when i think Pakistan is about people like MUSE,Havi and Fauji Histtorian too..then I really sad for you...My sadness does not anyway implicitly imply that i am in best of my situation or in best nation in this world...Rather i would like to say to people of Pakistan like Muse,Havi and Fauji Historian...I can understand your pain...In quest to dominate and decimate India..Pakistan somewhat lost its way.....I am 100% sure than in case the Kashmir would have been with Pakistan, then probably...Pakistan army and all these Mullahs who have done and brought your nation to such a state today, would not have happened.....I really pray GOD...for a successful and peaceful pakistan....at least for the people like MUSE,HAVI and Faujii like honest guys ....

Don't worry Kaniska... my support for secular thought is hidden from no one as is the fact that I am a minority (not religious but ideological) in my own land. There were reasons for Pakistan's India focus which I will not go into. But I will state that Pakistan has made major mistakes and has for too long felt it has a need to assert its Muslimness. We interfered in Jordan and Palestinians dislike us. We interfered in Afghanistan and Afghans hate us. It proves that interference in another country is useless today.

However I believe Pakistan lost its way due to a number of things. First was the forsaking of Jinnah's vision for a Secular Pakistan based on principles of Iqbal.
 
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Think, Pakistan, think
By M Zaidi
Published: February 17, 2013

The writer is a PhD in conflict studies and an independent security analyst. He has also taught at the University of Central Lancashire, UK

......... I do not believe that there is any Pakistani endemic inertia, which drives Pakistan closer to the abyss. .......

Muse dear poster.

Thanks for sharing.

I agree with the author for his exhortations towards "using our brains" or "thinking".

But I do not agree with when the author says (quoted text below)

---- I do not believe that there is any Pakistani endemic inertia, which drives Pakistan closer to the abyss.


Why?

there is indeed HUGE endemic inertia in Pakistan. The Islamic socialism that is in fact Marxism in an Islamic green shalwar qameez.

yes.

Marxism is endemic in Pakistani educated elite, and that pretty much forces us to keep HUGE monopolies in the government control.

the same Marxism makes sure that our industrialists and our farmers are constantly oppressed by the government to the point they either leave the country or bow in front of the marxist policies of the government.

Our tax laws, our tax officers, and our trade unions make it d@mn sure that no damn entrepreneur becomes big enough to be next Google, Apple, or Facebook or Youtube.

Coupled with Mraxism we have corrupt politicians who use Islamism to ban "anti-Islam" you-tube and harass Google.

these are just simple examples to show that Pakistan does have endemic inertia and that inertia is the deadly combo meal of Islamism and Mraxism that is forced upon ordinary hapless Pakistanis 5 times a day.


And this is why we are stuck in the economic cesspool for so long.

And sadly we'll remain in it until we fix our kartoot.


peace
 
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Historian:


I strongly agree with you on the question of the relationship between Islamism and Marxism- to my thinking, Islamism is just Marxism dressed up as you suggest.

However, I would like to point out that this simple observation does not sit well with anybody in Pakistan - Pakistanis, at least in my experience, are familiar with Marxist ideology, but they do not call it that.

And as far as Marxism and teachers - 100% -- Teachers are ultimate utopians and transfer tat worldview to their student, on the other hand, it's kind of the job description, unfortunately -
 
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