How should Pakistan tackle S400 acquisition by India? The Drone Swarm Technology....

[Indos]

Cruise missile like Tomahawk can also do the job.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

The Chinese are yet to even begin testing at the same level as Russia or the US.

I doubt russians or americans or martians have reached this level of testing. I give proof not a CGI.

 

[randomradio]

Why is it developing/acquiring so much new missile, aircraft and naval technology? An arms race is not just the accumulation of arms, it is also the development of them. It is a fact that India is in an arms race with China and Pakistan.

What you see India doing is very normal. Our defence budget has reduced from 2.5% of GDP to 1.6%. The arms race for India to match the Chinese military is yet to begin.

Pak forces are simply devolving, so it looks like India is militarising, but it's not. So it's your fault you can't afford new battle tanks, new fighter aircraft, new ships etc.

What we are doing right now is simply buying new stuff to replace our old stuff. We are yet to reach our minimum force levels in any wing.

For example, we are buying new infantry guns because our current ones are old and obsolete. We are buying new artillery because we haven't bought anything new in 30 years. We don't even have full ammunition reserves for 20-30 days of fighting. Our squadrons are falling like mad, we are at 32 squadrons when we should normally be at 42. We need 15 destroyers and 24 frigates, but we are only at half that number. And so on.

Right now we don't even have the money to get to our minimum levels. Wait until the middle of next decade, you will really see what an arms race is once India starts militarising.

Why doesn't India stop supporting terrorism then, both directly and indirectly? It enables terrorist launch pads in Afghanistan as well as sponsoring groups in Balochistan.

We don't support anything. It's just a threat. It's your army claiming we are supporting terrorism, but we are not. Whatever's happening in Baloch and Afghanistan has little to no Indian hands.

It's not necessary for us to do anything anyway. You have made so many enemies that we are just sitting here eating popcorn and watching the film you people have produced and directed.

I'm sure it was you who was too stubborn to realise the reality of the world when I explained to you that that's not how politics work. Take the Sino-Indian War as an example, or World War 2. As I said, terrorism is just a scapegoat for lack of dialogue. The only reason it's working is that Pakistan is too weak to counter India's influence in the region e.g. in SAARC and so on. India fears CPEC as not only will it bring the Chinese and their interests into Pakistani territory but also potentially many other international players which will give Pakistan the backing it needs to bring attention to Indian-sponsored terrorism and its occupation of the Kashmiri people.

As long as bullets fly, talks won't happen.

 

[aziqbal]

Turkey is getting this system

Running excercise against Turkish S400 will be best way to develop tactical response to S400

 

[SabzShaheen]

What you see India doing is very normal. Our defence budget has reduced from 2.5% of GDP to 1.6%. The arms race for India to match the Chinese military is yet to begin.

Pak forces are simply devolving, so it looks like India is militarising, but it's not. So it's your fault you can't afford new battle tanks, new fighter aircraft, new ships etc.

What we are doing right now is simply buying new stuff to replace our old stuff. We are yet to reach our minimum force levels in any wing.

For example, we are buying new infantry guns because our current ones are old and obsolete. We are buying new artillery because we haven't bought anything new in 30 years. We don't even have full ammunition reserves for 20-30 days of fighting. Our squadrons are falling like mad, we are at 32 squadrons when we should normally be at 42. We need 15 destroyers and 24 frigates, but we are only at half that number. And so on.

Right now we don't even have the money to get to our minimum levels. Wait until the middle of next decade, you will really see what an arms race is once India starts militarising.

Good points here. Maybe it is just from the Pakistan perspective that it looks as though India is engaging in an arms race because of the modernisation process of India being so much faster lately than Pakistan, and the jumps in technology are greater too. I assume from China's perspective, India is only just getting on its feet, militarily speaking. That does tie in well with the theory that China's strategy to counter India is to use Pakistan against it.

We don't support anything. It's just a threat. It's your army claiming we are supporting terrorism, but we are not. Whatever's happening in Baloch and Afghanistan has little to no Indian hands.

It's not necessary for us to do anything anyway. You have made so many enemies that we are just sitting here eating popcorn and watching the film you people have produced and directed.

The evidence points to otherwise, in my view. I don't just buy into army propaganda, though. This is from my own research.

It's true, though. We've made a few enemies. Not entirely our fault, of course.

As long as bullets fly, talks won't happen.

As we left it before, let's leave it again to disagree on this point. I agree that bullets should not fly during dialogue, but the reality is that they will.

 

[randomradio]

Good points here. Maybe it is just from the Pakistan perspective that it looks as though India is engaging in an arms race because of the modernisation process of India being so much faster lately than Pakistan, and the jumps in technology are greater too. I assume from China's perspective, India is only just getting on its feet, militarily speaking. That does tie in well with the theory that China's strategy to counter India is to use Pakistan against it.

Compared to China, our numbers are not good, but our technological absorption is better.

As we left it before, let's leave it again to disagree on this point. I agree that bullets should not fly during dialogue, but the reality is that they will.

It's something Pak can control. Bullets are flying because the Pak Army allows it, nothing else.

 

[SabzShaheen]

Compared to China, our numbers are not good, but our technological absorption is better.

china's technological advancement is almost on level with the US.

It's something Pak can control. Bullets are flying because the Pak Army allows it, nothing else.

but i thought indians argued that the government and the army are different? you can't blame pakistan as a whole and say that the army are different to the government. you have to choose one.

 

[Hayreddin]

Wars outcomes are not directed by fan boys wishes .
S400 is just a system guys with its own strength and weaknesses . Its NOT like a thing gonna paralyse our whole airforce and missle system .
People here talking abt using balisstic missles to neutralize s400 . Not even havs basic knowledge of the strategic warefare . Any ballistic missle flying deep in enemy territory can trigger an all out nuclear war in panic coz u cant diferrentiate btw conventional n nuclear armed missiles .
Well there r heaps of other options to neutralize enemy air defences .
And when war breaks out its hundreds of factors contributing to win. And in current scenerio any limted or all out war favor pakistan more thn india. And they know it .

 

[danger007]

Wars outcomes are not directed by fan boys wishes .
S400 is just a system guys with its own strength and weaknesses . Its NOT like a thing gonna paralyse our whole airforce and missle system .
People here talking abt using balisstic missles to neutralize s400 . Not even havs basic knowledge of the strategic warefare . Any ballistic missle flying deep in enemy territory can trigger an all out nuclear war in panic coz u cant diferrentiate btw conventional n nuclear armed missiles .
Well there r heaps of other options to neutralize enemy air defences .
And when war breaks out its hundreds of factors contributing to win. And in current scenerio any limted or all out war favor pakistan more thn india. And they know it .

Please elaborate the last part? Am just curious to know ?

Wars outcomes are not directed by fan boys wishes .
S400 is just a system guys with its own strength and weaknesses . Its NOT like a thing gonna paralyse our whole airforce and missle system .
People here talking abt using balisstic missles to neutralize s400 . Not even havs basic knowledge of the strategic warefare . Any ballistic missle flying deep in enemy territory can trigger an all out nuclear war in panic coz u cant diferrentiate btw conventional n nuclear armed missiles .
Well there r heaps of other options to neutralize enemy air defences .
And when war breaks out its hundreds of factors contributing to win. And in current scenerio any limted or all out war favor pakistan more thn india. And they know it .

Please elaborate the last part? Am just curious to know ?

 

[randomradio]

china's technological advancement is almost on level with the US.

Not yet.

Plus, we are still relying on Western imports.

but i thought indians argued that the government and the army are different? you can't blame pakistan as a whole and say that the army are different to the government. you have to choose one.

It's the army of course. The govt is simply the army's puppet. If we want any kind of stability in relations, the army has to make the call.

 

[Basel]

You don’t think hypersonic missiles are as of now the surest way of defeating S-400 type air defense systems?

Possibility is there if they are smart weapons with high maneuvering capability.

 

[Hayreddin]

Please elaborate the last part? Am just curious to know ?




Please elaborate the last part? Am just curious to know ?

Ok let me summarize for you .
India for any offense needs to move 7 out 9 divisions to pak border from other sides and frm in depth cantts wld take atleast 4 to 6 days . Secondly as they move to concentration area (150 km) to forward concentratiin area , Pak armed already know it
On the other side as Pakistan has less depth as compared to india .we got divisiins in gujranwala , sialkot , lahore , rahim yr khan etc . Pak is already in exagerrated defence posture ... needs few hours to mobalize and jump to borders .
IAF atm losing their number of squadrons . They got almost 350-380 modern capable fighter jets( su30, mig29, mirage 2000) and paf got 180-200 modern capable fighter jets( f16 , jf17) .IAF cant bring all of their assets to pak border they got huge country to watch but PAF can bring all of its capable air assets to eastern borders .
In case of cold start/ limited war , power collision frm both side wld be same so they wont get desired outcomes and for tht they need concentration and before thsy we wld know it ahr n when they gonna hit . In kashmir area IAF numbers and position of their air bases and number of air assets they can use is same of paf on this side kaahmir . Cant use tanks in kashmir so main force wld be infantry and here we got one the best battle hardened army in world . We will beat the hell of india there so no chance for them .
Our mode of communication btw land and air assets and in btw got so much matured and experienced in last 10 yr LIC tht indians have no idea of it.
Last but not the least our logistic support in case of war is our neighbour china but india got disadvantage in this area too . We are fullfilling more thn 70 % of our defence needs within country but india is doing only 20 -30% within country and importing 70 % . Naval blockade like 1971 is not an option today , we got lethal anti ships missles arsnel and can get "more" frm china in times of need .

 

[Basel]

There’s an active race now for hypersonic missiles precisely because of the inherent ability of these things to breach ABM defenses. I would actually flip your last question: if these weapons are useless against S-400 types, why China, America and Russia are currently locked in a race to file these weapons?

I agree with you that hypersonic missiles wouldn’t be used for saturation attacks, a single hypersonic missile, on theory, shouldn’t have any problems destroying S-400 or any other ABM system currently fielded.

Chinese wave rider can beat any Indian air defense system, and China will field them in numbers to saturate enemy defense.

To counter Indian air defense multipoint approach is needed and one point is to develop a stealth cruise missile like this one.

 

[syed_yusuf]

I doubt russians or americans or martians have reached this level of testing. I give proof not a CGI.

what is this?

 

[danger007]

Ok let me summarize for you .
India for any offense needs to move 7 out 9 divisions to pak border from other sides and frm in depth cantts wld take atleast 4 to 6 days . Secondly as they move to concentration area (150 km) to forward concentratiin area , Pak armed already know it
On the other side as Pakistan has less depth as compared to india .we got divisiins in gujranwala , sialkot , lahore , rahim yr khan etc . Pak is already in exagerrated defence posture ... needs few hours to mobalize and jump to borders .
IAF atm losing their number of squadrons . They got almost 350-380 modern capable fighter jets( su30, mig29, mirage 2000) and paf got 180-200 modern capable fighter jets( f16 , jf17) .IAF cant bring all of their assets to pak border they got huge country to watch but PAF can bring all of its capable air assets to eastern borders .
In case of cold start/ limited war , power collision frm both side wld be same so they wont get desired outcomes and for tht they need concentration and before thsy we wld know it ahr n when they gonna hit . In kashmir area IAF numbers and position of their air bases and number of air assets they can use is same of paf on this side kaahmir . Cant use tanks in kashmir so main force wld be infantry and here we got one the best battle hardened army in world . We will beat the hell of india there so no chance for them .
Our mode of communication btw land and air assets and in btw got so much matured and experienced in last 10 yr LIC tht indians have no idea of it.
Last but not the least our logistic support in case of war is our neighbour china but india got disadvantage in this area too . We are fullfilling more thn 70 % of our defence needs within country but india is doing only 20 -30% within country and importing 70 % . Naval blockade like 1971 is not an option today , we got lethal anti ships missles arsnel and can get "more" frm china in times of need .

Funny, quite fantasizing isn't it.. hardened, matured , no idea, modern communication your post is too good to forget... you are just assuming you know everything about IA moments but not vice versa, you got modern communication but our network dud with satellite... do you have idea about IAF air lift capability?