How should Pakistan tackle S400 acquisition by India? The Drone Swarm Technology....

[Falcon26]

For that one needs money to build such a large number of Hypersonic missile for pure saturation. Its not fun. An long ranged missile in S400 costs around 3-4m dollars at current prices. An Ballistic missile production and infra costs around 8-10m dollars. Hypersonic missiles might be used as strategic missiles, not to be used as swarms.

Second Hypersonic missiles testing is going on currently. However an refined better weapon of the missile will take around 15-20 years from now. Lots of Techs needs to be matured. By that time, the world would have moved onto something else in defensive technology. Brahmos will be there soon, but its range is low.

If yours is a solution, why US or Russia or China has ever attempted it? Cos it isnt feasible.

For that one needs money to build such a large number of Hypersonic missile for pure saturation. Its not fun. An long ranged missile in S400 costs around 3-4m dollars at current prices. An Ballistic missile production and infra costs around 8-10m dollars. Hypersonic missiles might be used as strategic missiles, not to be used as swarms.

Second Hypersonic missiles testing is going on currently. However an refined better weapon of the missile will take around 15-20 years from now. Lots of Techs needs to be matured. By that time, the world would have moved onto something else in defensive technology. Brahmos will be there soon, but its range is low.

If yours is a solution, why US or Russia or China has ever attempted it? Cos it isnt feasible.

There’s an active race now for hypersonic missiles precisely because of the inherent ability of these things to breach ABM defenses. I would actually flip your last question: if these weapons are useless against S-400 types, why China, America and Russia are currently locked in a race to file these weapons?

I agree with you that hypersonic missiles wouldn’t be used for saturation attacks, a single hypersonic missile, on theory, shouldn’t have any problems destroying S-400 or any other ABM system currently fielded.

 

[Bilal.]

And the cost for Pakistan to produce, maintain, store, train(personnels) such large number of drones in anticipation for a war which might never come? In that case that money can be used for better counter defence purposes.

Like any other munition. You might as well say the same for all guided long range rockets, guided bombs and other similar systems that we have in thousands and are maintaining quite capably.

Loitering long range munition is not something out of fantasy, similar systems exist, we just have to build on top of the current concepts and perfect it for our needs. And its something for which we already have the capability. Lets see: One way range of of ~300 km, autonomous flying, way-point based flight plan, ~10 kg carrying capacity, we have been doing this for the last 25-30 years. So the basic platform is available, now what remains is turning it into a autonomous loitering munition.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

How about you take care of ponying up for your S-400 purchase. Leave the R&D and investment to Pakistan and its friends.

Wow pride hurt and easily triggered. This is a defence forum, if yu hav forgotten.

There’s an active race now for hypersonic missiles precisely because of the inherent ability of these things to breach ABM defenses. I would actually flip your last question: if these weapons are useless against S-400 types, why China, America and Russia are currently locked in a race to file these weapons?

I agree with you that hypersonic missiles wouldn’t be used for saturation attacks, a single hypersonic missile, on theory, shouldn’t have any problems destroying S-400 or any other ABM system currently fielded.

I am not telling Hypersonic missiles are useless against S400. But was pointing out it is a bad waste to be used as a strategic weapon to fanboys here who got easily triggered.

Second I was pointing out, that Hypersonic missiles are currently being designed. This is a new technology for countries to work on. What I was telling was Hypersonic missiles technology will take around 15 years to reach maturity and even more if we need long range Hypersonic missiles. So let's say in 20 years, long range Hypersonic missiles are being deployed, some form of defence might have also evolved by that time. Can be called S700 for Russian's sake. Agree?

Like any other munition. You might as well say the same for all guided long range rockets, guided bombs and other similar systems that we have in thousands and are maintaining quite capably.

Loitering long range munition is not something out of fantasy, similar systems exist, we just have to build on top of the current concepts and perfect it for our needs. And its something for which we already have the capability. Lets see: One way range of of ~300 km, autonomous flying, way-point based flight plan, ~10 kg carrying capacity, we have been doing this for the last 25-30 years. So the basic platform is available, now what remains is turning it into a autonomous loitering munition.

There was an answer for this exact question. Dont know the post no or the poster. For an drone to come in, it needs to navigate through Akash, MR SAMS, QR Sams in the dense IB and Loc network first. Then after that it needs to encounter Spyder and only then it can encounter the S400. So from 2020 onwards its going on to be a 5 layer network(Even more counting small range SAMS DRDO is working on for Army). Modern Radars have acquired the capability to differentiate between a drone, missiles, fighter and a plane. How do you exactly propose to make this autonomous flying munition work?
You must be aware flying awefully low decreases the range of any aircrafts and missiles.

 

[Falcon26]

Wow pride hurt and easily triggered. This is a defence forum, if yu hav forgotten.



I am not telling Hypersonic missiles are useless against S400. But was pointing out it is a bad waste to be used as a strategic weapon to fanboys here who got easily triggered.

Second I was pointing out, that Hypersonic missiles are currently being designed. This is a new technology for countries to work on. What I was telling was Hypersonic missiles technology will take around 15 years to reach maturity and even more if we need long range Hypersonic missiles. So let's say in 20 years, long range Hypersonic missiles are being deployed, some form of defence might have also evolved by that time. Can be called S700 for Russian's sake. Agree?



There was an answer for this exact question. Dont know the post no or the poster. For an drone to come in, it needs to navigate through Akash, MR SAMS, QR Sams in the dense IB and Loc network first. Then after that it needs to encounter Spyder and only then it can encounter the S400. So from 2020 onwards its going on to be a 5 layer network(Even more counting small range SAMS DRDO is working on for Army). Modern Radars have acquired the capability to differentiate between a drone, missiles, fighter and a plane. How do you exactly propose to make this autonomous flying munition work?
You must be aware flying awefully low decreases the range of any aircrafts and missiles.

For China and the US, hypersonic missiles are at most 5 years away from deployment. China might actually deploy them before then. For Pakistan it could take a decade or so unless it’s already clandestinely working on one. No one was expecting Pakistan to test a MIRV but it did last year. For now, MIRV should be able to take out S-400. Especially when one considers the very short distance between India and Pakistan.

The presence of MIRV technology might actually limit India’s use of S-400 systems for the simple reason that if India were to use it, Pakistan will be forced to take them out. It creates a possible nuclear escalation because if Pakistan were to take out the S-400 with a MIRV Ababeel, there’s no way for India to know if these incoming missiles are nuclear armed. This creates a situation where India might employ nuclear weapons and escalate the conflict first. The simple fact is: Pakistan can’t allow the S-400 to hinder its operations and MIRV is a sure way of eliminating the threat. Meanwhile, India will be in a rough position of guessing whether the incoming MIRV warheads are nuclear armed or not or whether to retaliate. The induction of S-400 as some strategists have pointed out destabilizes Pakistan’s nuclear deterrence credibility and that should worry India.

 

[CriticalThought]

Wow pride hurt and easily triggered. This is a defence forum, if yu hav forgotten.

I don't think you realise your position in the pecking order on the defence forum. Now if you want to be kicked out like a useless chef in the canteen, keep up your condescending attitude.

 

[YeBeWarned]

one of the realistic and affordable solution ..

 

[Oldman1]

 

[Ultima Thule]

Not possible @Oldman1 and its a anti ship missile @Oldman1

 

[Oldman1]

Not possible @Oldman1 and its a anti ship missile @Oldman1

It can do both.

 

[Ultima Thule]

It can do both.

But can't launch it from punjab and most of sindh because radar range of S-400 is huge @Oldman1 and forget about LSRAM you (USA) will not selling it to PAKISTAN @Oldman1

 

[Oldman1]

But can't launch it from punjab and most of sindh because radar range of S-400 is huge @Oldman1 and forget about LSRAM you (USA) will not selling it to PAKISTAN @Oldman1

The new missiles have more than 500km range. Pretty much outrange the S400. And the upgraded missile has about 1000km range. Now the future JASSM or LRASM will have about almost 2000km range and still have the same dimensions.

If they replace the Tomahawk missile with this design being bigger, it be very formidable. Probably look like longer JASSM or LRASM with 6000km range or more with extended body design.

 

[Ultima Thule]

The new missiles have more than 500km range. Pretty much outrange the S400. And the upgraded missile has about 1000km range. Now the future JASSM or LRASM will have about almost 2000km range and still have the same dimensions.

And main question is that will USA sell it to Pakistan, i don't think so @Oldman1

 

[Oldman1]

And main question is that will USA sell it to Pakistan, i don't think so @Oldman1

Beg for it and it may happen.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Beg for it and it may happen.

Why we beg to you @Oldman1 , we have other option from China or turkey @Oldman1 , no Chance @Oldman1

 

[Oldman1]

Why we beg to you @Oldman1 , we have other option from China or turkey @Oldman1 , no Chance @Oldman1

True. China recently revealed their own version of the JASSM or LRASM. Will they sell it to you in your opinion?