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How Secure Are Indian Nukes?

Hindustan-US deal has nothing to do with your weapons being safe. There are plenty of incidents of nuclear material theft from Hindustani sites and transport vehicles. The deal has faced fierce resistance in the US congress and Bush has been heavily criticised by Americans, the International comunity and weapons experts for striking a deal with a non-NPT signatory. And even some Hindus. So, you should really thank the Jews for the deal.

This is a reply for u Thorosius:

Well there has been no incident of any nuclear theft from hindustani sites and transport vehicles. Need supporting facts and data on this. No country will send nuke material in a truck or whatever without protection. And about AQ khan please read my thread closely. I said the only way terrorist can gain control of a nuclear bomb is by designing it on their own. America has slammed AQ Khan for transferring nuclear technology to rogue states and more over i think you should read the news of AQ khan. it seems that a top scientist of pakistani nuclear programme met with Alqueada offcials and wanted to design a Islamic BOMB. Do u want a proof for this? Search the web foryourself i am sure u will be able to find it. We know what is good for our country, i dont think pakistan is in a state to advise us which fuel will be best .... I am not blaming pakistan,think dude.. If ever a nuclear weapon or technology is transferred in the hands of terrorists with the help of pakistani officials, and if it does explode in US or India, I am sure U know what will happen next... :sniper:..Already Pakistan is getting slowly isolated from the western world, image of akistan is tarnishing in dust... And about the Deal.. Oh come on.. Critics always come in everyways... there will always be someone to say that. Americans are not blind enough to sign a deal with india and india is not stupid enough to sign a deal with america if it dint fructify. Okay if it was a waste why did pakistan plead to america for the same status?
 
and these are the cream of Pakistani research and defence industry the best and beloved of pakistan? should one not cast doubts over abilities of PA to defend Pakistani nukes with its soldiers surrendering in NWFP/FATA?

In seeking to undermine Bane Blade you are exposing your own narrow-minded perceptions about things as a whole and Pakistan in particular. Things in Pakistan are complicated, I don't for a second expect you to understand (or even try to understand) but those militiamen and army-men who 'surrendered' were not on combat operations. They were not routed, or outfought or defeated or incompetent. Nor were the tribals who did this particularly dangerous or capable. There was severe confusion in the RoEs, and a misunderstanding in higher command not of the tribals' capabilities but their motives and intent. When this particular event took place and logistics troops were subdued, the military was in a state of truce with the militants (or so the commanders believed). PA during that particular period was inclined to give the militants the benefit of the doubt as far as expecting them to keep their word and 'behave' for reasons un-comprehendible to most outsiders (and many Pakistanis) but it was certainly not a matter of the PA lacking sufficient abilities to watch over their own. And also good soldiers never make the same mistakes again; the PA obviously seems to have learned from that rough patch, which is to be expected given that despite the severe political, emotional and financial constraints...they represent some of the best soldiery in the world.

Also if you'd follow Pakistani military affairs closely you'd note that a growth in militant activity near (and I use that word loosely) a particular sensitive military site prompted no less than a whole division of the regular PA to be rushed up and deployed for the rectification of the situation and elimination of that potential threat posed by some glorified raiders in a deserted piece of land.

So yes PA does take any threat to its strategic assets seriously. Probably more than you and I will ever know and more than can be disclosed in places like this. Almost all of the BS we get now days is politically motived and hardly based on ground realities. In contrast to others, say India and Russia, I'd say we're still pretty decently held. It's just a matter of inclination with those who choose to comment (or rant) on it.
 
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tapia4 said:
Well there has been no incident of any nuclear theft from hindustani sites and transport vehicles. Need supporting facts and data on this. No country will send nuke material in a truck or whatever without protection.

Here you go.

Police arrest 5 for uranium theft in India - International Herald Tribune

You'll feel enlightened.

Pakistan Observer - Newspaper online edition - Article

tapia4 said:
America has slammed AQ Khan for transferring nuclear technology to rogue states and more over i think you should read the news of AQ khan.

If AQ Khan sahib supplied nuclear know how to other countries then its not illegal.

tapia4 said:
I am not blaming pakistan,think dude.. If ever a nuclear weapon or technology is transferred in the hands of terrorists with the help of pakistani officials, and if it does explode in US or India, I am sure U know what will happen next

A lot of "ifs". I wouldn't be surprised, may be another Mumbai like drama is cooking? Your Gov's support to the Hindu terrorist organizations will most likely end up similar to Mumbai. Your Gov will supply them with a nuclear bomb or whatever and they will explode it in a Hindu area killing Hindus and Hindustan will then demand this person and that person from Pakistan and in the end people like mukerjee will cry on media about Pakistan's "don't give a sh!t" attitude. This is the "next" you were talking about?:lol:
 
In seeking to undermine Bane Blade you are exposing your own narrow-minded perceptions about things as a whole and Pakistan in particular.

There is no intent to undermine him. Please do NOT personalise this issue where its not. And the post was one meant to underline the difference in perception of things and inability to understand facts something which you yourself have pointed out to me.

I agree, the circumstances of any issue can not be truly understood except by those who face the issue .....

am in no ways insinuating that PA is incapable, in fact have said the opposite and have called upon to desist from measuring one's abilities in reference to isolated incidents
 
Uranium smuggling from India goes on


Rabail Iftikhar Ch

The world is applying double standards on the issue of proliferation, theft of uranium and nuclear fissile material from India as Indian state Meghalaya Police has experienced two highly dangerous cases of uranium theft in not more than six months. According to newspaper reports, the state police arrested five individuals on charges of smuggling uranium. The confiscated packet bore a printed inscription of the Indian Atomic Energy Department. The samples of the seized packet have been sent for laboratory tests. Earlier in May this year the Meghalaya Police also had arrested five people for allegedly possessing 1 kg uranium.

The US and India have already entered into civilian nuclear deal while Russia, Australia, Canada, Israel and other countries are delivering fresh nuclear fuel destined for two Indian reactors. Yet the reports of theft of enriched uranium from India are continuously being ignored. Russia started selling nuclear fuel to India in early 2001. At that time, the US State Department accused Russia of violating its NSG commitments, urging Moscow to cancel the deal. But the time has changed, the world of America has changed, thanks to the double stand standards.

The majority of American people including lawmakers, policy makers and think-tanks opposed the Bush administration’s decision to give India civilian nuclear plants on the basis that India has been involved in nuclear proliferation in the past despite its claims of water tight control on the assets. They cite a number of examples containing reports of exporting nuclear know-how and supplying uranium to other countries. Times of India quoting Press Trust of India reported from Guwahati on on April 12, 2006 that one kilogram of enriched uranium, suspected to have been stolen from a government facility in Meghalaya, was seized from three men trying to sell it. A packet containing the uranium bore the marking ‘Department of Atomic ‘Energy, Atomic Minerals Directorate for Exploration and Research Centre, North Eastern Region, Shillong. Two more markings on the packet, ‘explosive number 2000/LG/27-D’ and ‘B/337 Enriched Uranium’, indicated that the substance was high grade uranium used as fuel at nuclear power stations. Three men, according to the report, who had earlier asked for crores of rupees for the uranium, were approached by police personnel posing as customers on Tuesday.

The men, after bargaining, agreed to sell the uranium for Rs 50 lakh. The three persons, identified as Dhiren Barali, Krishna Das and Nirod Das, were arrested and booked under the Explosives Act. A case was registered against them at the Panbazar police station. The uranium was later sent to a forensic laboratory for tests.

According to the Asian Age of November 23, 2005, Sridhar Krishnaswami reported that a federal court found two defense companies in New England along with their top executives guilty of violating US export control laws by selling technology that “helped” India improve its Agni medium range nuclear missile. The defense company executives Walter Lachman and Maurice Subillia Jr. were sentenced to three years of probation. The court also imposed a fine of $250,000 on the company Fiber Materials Inc. Fiber Materials of Maine and its subsidiary materials international along with the top executives were found guilty of conspiring to export a control panel from the US to India’s Defense Research Development Laboratory (DRDL) in April 1988. The panel was needed to operate a production skize hot isostatic press.

The control panel required a special export license from the US department of commerce, and no such license was obtained by the defendants. The control panel and the isostatic press were sold to the defense laboratory which was developing India’s principal nuclear-capable ballistic missile Agni, according to the case sheet. The contract under which this equipment was supplied was between the defendants and DRDL and was signed by the project director of Agni. In 1991-92, the two companies directed employees to travel to India to install and make fully operational the carbon-carbon processing equipment in India.

With the earlier reports of arrest of Dubai based Indian national, Ravinra Singh – a RAW agent – for trying to sell Indian atomic secrets to foreign powers it was confirmed that India’s nuclear program is susceptible to being peddled for a price. World intelligence agencies have been gathering proofs as to how India became the hub of world nuclear proliferation. Ravindra mysteriously disappeared to the US and remained untraceable since then. As a face-saving measure Indian intelligence officials had falsely been informing the media that Ravindra had no information detrimental to Indian security interests, which created further doubts. Deeply perturbed over the development, India asked the United States to withdraw sanctions it had imposed against two Indian nuclear scientists accused by Washington of transferring technology for Weapons of Mass Destruction and missile secrets to Iran.

According to Hindustan Times of April 10, 2004 Indian police arrested two Indian nationals with 850 grams of Uranium. “Two persons were arrested in Guwahati on April 7 for possessing an explosive like substance, which could possibly be high grade uranium ore”. The police said that Raj Kumar Mishra, a Gorakhpur resident, was arrested with 850 grams of the blakish-grey substance. Later Mishra led the police to Polasiv who hails from Meghalaya and was charged for selling the substance to Mishra for Rs 15 lakh. A sample of the substance was sent to Bhaba Atomic Research Centre for verification, according to the report. “The suspicions about the material being Uranium was strengthened by the fact that the seller belonged to Meghalaya which is known for production of Uranium ore”, said DSP Utpal Bayan. The Domiasiat area of Moghalaya has substantial deposits of high grade uranium. According to police the arrested man, Raj Kumar Mishra, confessed that he had come to purchase the high-grade uranium.

In another report police in the northeastern state of Assam had uncovered a major racket involving theft of radioactive uranium by arresting two persons. A police spokesman said they had seized one kg of uranium from two youths in Assam’s main city of Guwahati with the packet bearing a printed inscription, ‘Department of Atomic Energy, Directorate of Explosive and Research Centre, Northeast Region, Shillong’. “On specific information that the two youths were in possession of some suspicious powdered explosives, a team of police personnel disguised as customers and struck a deal for buying the uranium at a price of Rs 1.5 million,” said a senior police official. “In the packet it was written, “Not for sale, Government use only, Explosives no 2000/27 D, Uranium 325 (5), Made in India.” “Investigations are on to ascertain how and where from they got hold of the uranium and where the consignment was destined for,” said the official. “We are also looking at possible nexus between the gang and militants or other agents inimical to Indian interests.” A team of senior police official has since left for Meghalaya’s capital Shillong for follow up investigations with Atomic Energy officials.

According to surveys by India’s Atomic Energy Department, there could be up to 10,000 tonnes of uranium in Meghalaya’s Domiasiat area - by far the largest and richest sandstone- type deposits available in the country. The ores are spread over a mountainous terrain in deposits varying from eight to 47 meters from the surface in and around Domiasiat, 135 kilometer west of Shillong After initial operations, the Uranium Corporation of India Limited (UCIL) was forced to wind up mining in the mid-90s following a string of violent opposition from villagers and other pressure groups in Meghalaya who alleged emission of radioactive uranium was posing serious health hazards. Published in local English daily on April 27, 2006, a Reuters report said that Russia has delivered fresh nuclear fuel destined for two Indian reactors.

The Russian delivery, which experts say violates international rules, comes as the US Congress is considering whether to approve an agreement whereby India would be allowed to obtain nuclear fuel, reactors and technology from the United States and other countries for the first time in three decades. The Russian fuel for the two Tarapur power plants “has been delivered but it has not yet been used. It’s in a storage facility,” a senior US official told Reuters. “This kind of activity should not take place, in our view, until the NSG has acted. It’s not a good precedent,” he said. The US has asked India to refrain from using the fuel and believes this request will be honored.

The 45-nation NSG has not yet altered its rules to permit nuclear transfers to India and is not expected to do so until Congress votes. That could take months because of concern that the US-India civilian nuclear co-operation agreement could undermine efforts to control nuclear proliferation. “Russia has clearly violated NSG rules,” Daryl Kimball, director of the non-profit Arms Control Association, said of Moscow’s nuclear fuel delivery. “This is a further step towards the erosion of the NSG guidelines and the United States must speak out more strongly against Russia and India pursuing this.” Democratic Rep Edward Markey of Massachusetts, a leading critic of the US-India deal, expressed concern that the agreement had “pretty much neutralized the ability of the US to block this type of shipment”. “The United States can’t plausibly tell other nations not to ship nuclear material or technology to India if we are preparing to do so ourselves,” he said. As a member of the NSG, which controls global nuclear trade, Russia should not supply fuel to countries like India, which have not signed the NPT.

The uranium fuel for Tarapur was delivered recently following a Russia-India agreement announced last month. Even the US Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns, who is negotiating the American deal with India, said that Russia should delay the transfer until Congress and the NSG had formally changed their rules. In supplying the fuel, Russia had invoked an NSG “safety exemption clause” which allowed fuel transfers if there were reason to believe that starving a reactor of fuel could result in a nuclear hazard.

But many non-proliferation experts have rejected this argument, contending that in the presence of safety concerns, reactors should be shut down, not refuelled. Many in the US believe that India’s Tarapur nuclear reactor could be a safety problem in the coming months. For the world community at large the uranium theft reports must be the case of great concern. The criticism coming out from inside the US must not confine to opposing the civilian nuclear deal, but mounting pressure on New Delhi to eschew the path of proliferating nuclear material. It is upon the civilized world to go for nuclear disarmament and converting nuclear facilities into acquiring self-reliance of energy generation under well guaranteed safeguards.

The powerful must see the under developed with one eye and do justice without discrimination. The sin of not taking notice of India’s proliferation attempts may cost the world very dearly.

---
Uranium smuggling from India goes on - Newspaper online edition - Article
 
the above article is issued in The Frontier Post dated Sunday November 16, 2008

The world is applying double standards on the issue of proliferation, theft of uranium and nuclear fissile material from India as Indian state Meghalaya Police has experienced two highly dangerous cases of uranium theft in not more than six months. According to newspaper reports, the state police arrested five individuals on charges of smuggling uranium. The confiscated packet bore a printed inscription of the Indian Atomic Energy Department. The samples of the seized packet have been sent for laboratory tests. Earlier in May this year the Meghalaya Police also had arrested five people for allegedly possessing 1 kg uranium.

any indian/us or any other source corroborating this? have you been able to corroborate it?

The majority of American people including lawmakers, policy makers and think-tanks opposed the Bush administration’s decision to give India civilian nuclear plants on the basis that India has been involved in nuclear proliferation in the past despite its claims of water tight control on the assets. They cite a number of examples containing reports of exporting nuclear know-how and supplying uranium to other countries. Times of India quoting Press Trust of India reported from Guwahati on on April 12, 2006 that one kilogram of enriched uranium, suspected to have been stolen from a government facility in Meghalaya, was seized from three men trying to sell it. A packet containing the uranium bore the marking ‘Department of Atomic ‘Energy, Atomic Minerals Directorate for Exploration and Research Centre, North Eastern Region, Shillong. Two more markings on the packet, ‘explosive number 2000/LG/27-D’ and ‘B/337 Enriched Uranium’, indicated that the substance was high grade uranium used as fuel at nuclear power stations. Three men, according to the report, who had earlier asked for crores of rupees for the uranium, were approached by police personnel posing as customers on Tuesday.

There are NO enrichment facilities in Meghalaya and the author has only gone on half researched stories ....... the necessary cross reference for this is here

Five arrested in Meghalaya on charges of smuggling uranium .:. NewKerala - India 's Top Online Newspaper

BBC News | South Asia | Indian politician accused of smuggling uranium

both have occurences pre-99 tests.

at the same time .....

more interesting post

NRDC: The ABC News Nuclear Smuggling Experiment: The Sequel

and further interesting reads

Pakistan may still be involved in N-smuggling: IISS

Report on Pakistani Smugglers Fuels Nuke Worries : NPR

and as for Ravindra Singh, he was the liasion with CIA for anti-Taliban operations and intel in afghanistan and he was "turned" and he took off with quite a lot of sensitive data from RAW and allied forces ....... it was just a question of defection and NOT OF NUCLEAR PEDDLING as claimed .....

the necessary links:
Missing spy trail leads to Western embassy-India-The Times of India

Defection of a RAW agent from India - Sangam.org

the post is informative thorosius but original writer has poorly researched his material and badly mixed up facts ...... reliance on this post is fraught with danger
 
The Communist Party of India (Maoist) is an underground Maoist political party in India. It was founded on September 21, 2004, through the merger of the Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist) People's War and the Maoist Communist Centre of India. The merger was announced to the public on October 14 the same year. In the merger a provisional central committee was constituted, with PW leader Ganapati as General Secretary. The CPI (Maoist) are often referred to as Naxalites in reference to the Naxalbari insurrection by radical Maoists in West Bengal in 1967.
 
The PWG also has a string of front organisations of students, youth, industrial workers, miners, farm hands, women, poets, writers and cultural artists. Some among these are listed below:

Andhra Pradesh

Rythu Coolie Sangham (Agricultural labourers association)

Singareni Karmika Samakhya (Singareni collieries workers federation)

Viplava Karmika Samakhya (Revolutionary workers federation)

Radical Students Union

Radical Youth League

All India Revolutionary Students Federation

Bihar

Lok Sangram Morcha (People’s Struggle Front)

Mazddor Kisam Mukti Morcha (Workers-Peasants Liberation Front)

Jan Mukti Parishad (People’s Liberation Council)

Mazdoor Kisan Ekta Morcha (Workers-Peasants Unity Front)

Bharat Navjawan Sabha (Indian Youth Association)

Mazdoor Kisan Sangrami Parishad (Workers-Peasants Struggle Council)

Shramik Sangram Manch (Workers Struggle Platform)

Nari Mukti Sangharsh Samiti (Women’s Liberation Struggle Association)

Sangharsha Jana Mukti Morcha (People’s Liberation Struggle Front)

Democratic Students Union

All India People’s Resistance Forum

Madhya Pradesh

Adivasi Kisan Mazdoor Sangh (Tribal Peasants-Workers Association)

Krantikari Kisan Mazdoor Sangh (Revolutionary Peasants-Workers Association)

Krantikari Balak Sangh (Revolutionary Children’s Association)

Gram Raksha Dal (Village Defence Force)

Gram Rajya Samiti (Village governance council)
 
July 16, 2008: A landmine hit a police van in Malkangiri district, killing 21 policemen.[7]
June 29, 2008: CPI forces attacked a boat on the Chitrakonda reservoir in Orissa carrying members of an anti-Naxalite police force. The boat sunk, killing 33 policemen, while 28 survived.[8][9]
In November 2007 reports emerged that the anti-SEZ movement in Nandigram in West Bengal had been infiltrated by Naxalites since February; the reports quoted unnamed intelligence sources.[10] Recently, police found weapons belonging to Maoists near Nandigram.
On March 15, 2007 an attack happened in the rebel stronghold area of Dantewada, in Chhattisgarh state. Fifty-four persons, including 15 personnel of the Chhattishgarh Armed Force, were killed in an offensive by 300 to 350 CPI (Maoist) cadres on a police base camp in the Bastar region in the early hours of Thursday. The remaining victims were tribal youths of Salwa Judum, designated as Special Police Officers (SPOs) and roped in to combat the Maoists. Eleven person were injured. The attack, which lasted nearly two-and-a-half hours, was spearheaded by the "State Military Commission (Maoist)", consisting of about 100 armed naxalites.[11]
On March 6, 2007 the CPI (Maoist) reportedly claimed responsibility for the Mahato assassination, but JMM members of the Jharkhand state cabinet, including the Chief Minister, subsequently announced that a state police investigation is under way into the authenticity of this claim. Police reportedly believe that political rivals of Mahato, including organized criminal groups, may have been behind the assassination.[8]
On March 5, 2007 Maoist shot dead a local Congress leader (Prakash, a member of the local Mandal Praja Parishad (MPP)) in Andhra Pradesh while he was inspecting a road construction project in Mahabubnagar district.[12]
On March 4, 2007 Maoist shot dead a member of the parliament (Sunil Mahato) of the Jharkhand Mukti Morcha (JMM) party from Jharkhand state.[13]
On December 2, 2006 the BBC reported that at least 14 Indian policemen had been killed by Maoists in a landmine ambush near the town of Bokaro, 80 miles from Ranchi, the capital of the State of Jharkhand.[14]
On October 18, 2006 women belonging to the Maoist guerrilla forces blasted four government buildings in the Bastar region of Chhattisgarh. On the day before, over a dozen armed cadres of the group, with support from male colleagues, blocked traffic on the Antagarh-Koylibera Road in the Kanker district, near the city of Raipur. They also detonated explosives inside four buildings, including two schools, in Kanker[9]. This incident occurred two days after a major leader of the party's operations in Orissa and Andhra Pradesh, Kone Kedandam, surrendered to authorities in the town of Srikakulam.[10]
On July 16, 2006 the Maoists attacked a relief camp in the Dantewada district where several villagers were kidnapped. The death toll was 29.[15]
On February 28, 2006 the Maoists attacked several anti-Maoist protesters in Erraboru village in Chhattisgarh using landmines, killing 25 people.[16]
On 13 November 2005 CPI (Maoist) fighters stunned authorities by attacking Jehanabad in Bihar, freeing 250 captured comrades and taking twenty imprisoned right wing paramilitaries captive, executing their leader. They also detonated several bombs in the town[17]. A prison guard was also reported killed.
In August 2005 Maoists kidnapped from the Dantewada district of the state of Chhattisgarh.This fiollows violent incidents in 2004 in the same region when 50 policemen and about 300 villagers were killed in the Dantewada district and over 50,000 villagers were staying in relief camps out of fear from Maoists.[18]
In February 2005 the CPI (Maoist) killed 7 policemen, a civilian and injured many more during a mass attack on a school building in Venkatammanahalli village, Pavgada, Tumkur, Karnataka.[19][20] On August 17, 2005, the government of Andhra Pradesh outlawed the Communist Party of India (Maoist) and various mass organizations close to it, and began to arrest suspected members and sympathizers days afterwards. The arrested included former emissaries at the peace talks of 2004.
 
Naxal victim laid to rest


Madikeri, Karnataka, Nov 20 : The mortal remains of Constable Guruprasad, who was killed by Naxalites in an encounter with police, was laid to rest with full State honour at his residence last night.


Legislative Assembly Deputy Speaker K G Bopaiah placed wreath on behalf of the State Government.

Guruprasad was killed while fighting against naxalites at Mattina Kadave near Horanadu.

KSRP DIG Kempaiah from KSRP, Deputy Commissioner Baladevakrishna, Head quarters assistant Chikkathammaiah and Superintendent of police Suresh were among those who paid last respects to the slain hero.

Talking to scribes, DIG Kempaiah said that the department will not spare any chance for the naxals to survive and they will be silenced. He assured that Rs five lakhs solotorium announced by the government to the family of Guruprasad would be paid shortly.

He said that Guruprasad raised his head during the fight with naxals and a gun hit his head.

Guruprasad had the credit of serving in police team fighting against the slain brigand Veerappan.


--- UNI
 
spurdozer buddy

you dozed off after your posts ? ....... what was the point you were driving at?
 
@tapia4 >> Thanks for gracing my thread with your first post. :) You could have used the "Joke" word 5 more times and still it wouldn't count as a joke. I'm just a messenger. Answer the allegations instead.


"Pakistan is not a signatory to NPT so what AQ Khan supposedly did is not wrong "

Yeah he is right coz khans network is different from others..

How was it different from previous proliferation networks?

By creating a centralized "one-stop shop" that offered technical advice, parts, and customer support. The network's efficiency led Mohamed ElBaradei, head of the IAEA, to call it the "Wal-Mart of private-sector proliferation"

...is not wrong.

NONPROLIFERATION: The Pakistan Network - Council on Foreign Relations

This will beat any type of nuclear proliferation ...past, present and future also.....Gotcha..
 

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