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How Russian access to Pakistan's Gwadar port and CPEC will weigh against the Russo-Indian Relations

Russia should invest money in CPEC from backdoor by China. Pakistan can also think to deploy Russian including Chinese Naval Forces in Gawadar.. Russia, China and Pakistan make a deal that Russia,China can use Pakistani Ports, Ground, Air ports. As there is already a Deal between India & USA.

Russia should invest money in CPEC from backdoor by China. Pakistan can also think to deploy Russian including Chinese Naval Forces in Gawadar.. Russia, China and Pakistan make a deal that Russia,China can use Pakistani Ports, Ground, Air ports. As there is already a Deal between India & USA.
 
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Russia should invest money in CPEC from backdoor by China. Pakistan can also think to deploy Russian including Chinese Naval Forces in Gawadar.. Russia, China and Pakistan make a deal that Russia,China can use Pakistani Ports, Ground, Air ports. As there is already a Deal between India & USA.

Russia should invest money in CPEC from backdoor by China. Pakistan can also think to deploy Russian including Chinese Naval Forces in Gawadar.. Russia, China and Pakistan make a deal that Russia,China can use Pakistani Ports, Ground, Air ports. As there is already a Deal between India & USA.
Agreed with you
 
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Defence deals and trade deals are entirely two different categories or businesses. Four things to consider
  1. Big defence deals are few and far between
  2. In future there will be even lesser number of larger deals as india is striving for make in india
  3. india is replacing Russia with USA and west and slowly the relations will die
  4. Once the deal has been signed and paid, the seller (Russia) has the buyer (india) by the balls while reverse is not true
Now the trade deals have different dynamics...if everything thing remains constant or positive, the trade tends to increase or remain steady over time, thus
  1. it will provide a steady income unlike the defence deals that are intermittent in nature
  2. it will provide Russia a greater access to other markets and it won't dependent on a single country and thus able to expand not only its trade but political influence and relations with other countries too
  3. the country that controls the trade ways (Pakistan) will have more leverage or at least a very comfortable situation in the relations
  4. trade relations are longer term and not so easily disturbed or disrupted and grow over time
Just a few of the points I could think of.




how cute, we are purchasing defence stuff with money.. they are not giving free aid.. to say hold by the balls.. it is idiotic comment..
 
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how cute, we are purchasing defence stuff with money.. they are not giving free aid.. to say hold by the balls.. it is idiotic comment..

How cute when you will need spares, maintenance and upgrades... you will know what i mean till then enjoy your stay in fools' paradise. have a nice time there
 
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Now apparently even Turkey is busted with "Istanbul" and "frozen". Despite 22,000 ships sailing through.. Leave alone Germany, Canada etc. I surrender ...

o-WHITE-FLAG-SURRENDER-facebook.jpg



objective
Give me on primary source that confirms this besides Gen. Zia's propaganda?
 
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How cute when you will need spares, maintenance and upgrades... you will know what i mean till then enjoy your stay in fools' paradise. have a nice time there


if that is the case... then US F 16's and chinese Jft.. etc. .. states don't act like you think... no emotional decisions unlike some here... you are talking about nearly 50billion $ defence budget which intend to grow year by year..
 
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if that is the case... then US F 16's and chinese Jft.. etc. .. states don't act like you think... no emotional decisions unlike some here... you are talking about nearly 50billion $ defence budget which intend to grow year by year..
Good for chest thumping but it will drag you down in IOR.. so no worries.. enjoy
 
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Good for chest thumping but it will drag and down in IOR.. so no worries.. enjoy



no im not chest thumping here.. am not the one talking about India, pakistan strategic blah blah.. you guys assuming despite huge growing market.. Russia will abandon or bring relations to end for the sake of pak.. i would like to add a point.. Russia is only country that share border from Asia to Europe .... they have land connectivity to loads of countries .. im not sure how they are going to get benefit from gwadar..
 
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Pakistanis try push their importance in this region based upon a port construction to benefit china mostly.

This urge to push Pakistani importance to nations they believe to be important in the world.

China for investment and military aid
Russia military aid and energy
Saudi iran & UAE energy & money

nothing wrong with this..

BUT india will remain the biggest and most important nation in this region by a FACTOTR 10-1
 
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Thanks for your input Sino. I think the reason is to do with the concept they call 'geographic determinism'. Indus Valley occupies a very strategic zone. It's a buffer or a bridge between major regions. To the east you have massive populations of the Ganga/Dravid peninsula. To the West you have what they call Middle East (I don't like that term as it is very Euro-centric. I prefer West Asia) and to the north have Central Asia. In addition you have the conduit through the Indus gorges that funnel through the Karakorums and allow access to Inner China/Tarim Basin which of course was the one of the routes of the Silk Road and now the CPEC. This has meant that the Indus has always been subjected to historical events and at the same time been the crucible of major historical events.

Therein lies Pakistan's destiny today. If the country can synchronize itself with it's geography and the tempo of history then it would move fast forward. That Pakistan is not just a political entity (despite what reasons caused it to emerge in 1947) but in fact a inheritor of major pathway of history is being recognized slowly. I only wish if Pak elites also woke up to this fact and educated the nation on geograhic and historical destiny. Robert Kaplan has written some interesting pieces on this. Before this Aitzaz Ahsan - Indus Saga and The Making of Pakistan was a seminal book that should have opened the eyes of Pak elites. That book should have been mandatory reading for every high school student in Pakistam.


http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/872849.The_Indus_Saga_and_the_Making_of_Pakistan

In a recent Foreign Policy article, Robert Kaplan argues that Pakistan’s problems—and its destiny—are rooted in its physical landscape: “Pakistan’s present and future, for better or worse, are still best understood through its geography.”

Instead he contends that the country does indeed have a specific geographical logic—one that shapes its politics and guides its development. That logic is founded on possession of the Indus Valley and (most of) the fertile plains of the Punjab, areas that, he claims, automatically tie in with the adjacent western uplands and hence to the vital trade routes of Central Asia and the Middle East.

“the Indian subcontinent has two principal geographical regions: the Indus Valley with its tributaries, and the Ganges Valley with its tributaries.”

“Today’s political geography is historically unique, however: an Indus Valley state, Pakistan, and a powerful Ganges Valley state, India, both fighting for control of an independent and semi-chaotic Central Asian near abroad — Afghanistan.”




I don't want to sound facetious or anything but when people make a statement it tends to help a lot if they can can qualify it. Like you say x and then you qualify it by giving y reasons. Makes it better all round.



Dear Friend, many thanks for your kind insights. Always, original and thoughtful...


What is Destiny, if it is, then it has Force and Momentum of its own... mere mortals are but twigs in the ******** of Life River. Your Mighty Indus...is it not a Living Entity on its own?

I sought a deeper answer from you, dear old friend.

Why do not you look into the Morphic Field of your Ancient Land? Look deeper and enthrill me with your views... very few things here at PDF that are worth my salt.

Jung has written rather beautiful things about such matters. Ignore the Hindianz...they are empty vessels...only make lot of noises. In the future they are going to be shoooperpaawar.


Just look at the Historic Map of your Ancient Pak...not the contracted one of today.


There was Persia and there was Pak. And there is still China. Please, Percieve!


Meta-material is as important as meterial. Young Paks have great heart...only their beautiful minds need to expand.

Sometime religion is constraining factor in Thought/Perception. Star-dust and Humanity....wonderful mix.

I say Russo-Pak Tango is going to be Argentinian not French!
 
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Defence deals and trade deals are entirely two different categories or businesses. Four things to consider
  1. Big defence deals are few and far between
  2. In future there will be even lesser number of larger deals as india is striving for make in india
  3. india is replacing Russia with USA and west and slowly the relations will die
  4. Once the deal has been signed and paid, the seller (Russia) has the buyer (india) by the balls while reverse is not true
Leaving aside the topic of the thread - which is disjointed from current reality - insofar as utility of Gwadar beyond being a refueling point is very questionable this is highly inaccurate picture of defense deals based on some very obviously impractical assumptions.

Defence deals for Russia translate into revenue - more tangible, more immediately useful. In the US it would benefit private contractors (Boeing, Raytheon) and only indirectly benefit the government (by creation of jobs, etc.).

No purchaser of a defence deal would pay 100% upfront - payments are typically staggered and based on milestones.

Make in India only ships the manufacturing (or part) into India, not the profits. Even without Make in India defense deals by all major importers have offset clauses.

I do agree though that the days of sole dependence on Russian equipment are over - especially in aircraft. However land and sea forces still have a substantial Russian inventory which will takes many decades (if at all) to replace.
 
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How Russian access to Gwadar, or what they call warm waters will weigh against the Russo-Indian Relations?
For example, how much political and financial pressure can India put on Russia to counter its arms sales to Pakistan, without jeopardizing the latter's vital longings to get access to the warm waters of the Arabian Sea?
Weighing both ends, Russia will try to find some equilibrium in its relations with India and Pakistan..Will the billions of Russian arms sales to India and their "Strategic" partnership outweigh the potential of more billions to be made through trade from Gwadar and CPEC?
Pakistan holds this politico-economic vital and important card to play with Russia and against Indian interventions in arms sales among other benefits..

If Russia weighs the pros and cons of the access to warm water route for it southern states who happen to be Muslims all around will fit good with Russia.

so your disinformation does not stand a chance after knowing the facts.

Russia does NOT need either Gwadar or Any Warm waters for Trade

Russia has DIRECT Land and Sea connectivity with
ALL its Major Trading Partners
namely Europe ; China ; Central Asia ; Iran ; Turkey

And Russia has BOUGHT India's VADINAR port which is very close to Gwadar Port

http://indianexpress.com/article/bu...y-essar-oil-vadinar-port-for-12-9-bn-3085155/

Rosneft to buy Essar Oil, Vadinar Port for $12.9 bn
How close is very close, a 1000 miles away, stop disinformation to twist the facts.
 
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Gawadar is a port, its on us how we sell our product, how we make sure world that this gawadar port will be in their benefit, its all on us... security and development is other thing, making local port to attract international world for business is different thing...
 
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no im not chest thumping here.. am not the one talking about India, pakistan strategic blah blah.. you guys assuming despite huge growing market.. Russia will abandon or bring relations to end for the sake of pak.. i would like to add a point.. Russia is only country that share border from Asia to Europe .... they have land connectivity to loads of countries .. im not sure how they are going to get benefit from gwadar..
Have you ever seen Asian maps, if you did then you will under stand the need by Russia to join CPEC, but if you like to spin as Indians do than your come back will be even sillier.
 
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Have you ever seen Asian maps, if you did then you will under stand the need by Russia to join CPEC, but if you like to spin as Indians do than your come back will be even sillier.

no i didn't see your version maps.. if you can enlighten us.. feel free

i think @Kaptaan already explained very well.. all you need to look at his posts and maps..
 
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