How Russia got caught by his own hands about Su-24 ?

[SQ8]

Believe in Russians all you want but whole world has seen the warning record and radar tracks released by Turkish army while Russia hasnt provided any evidences for their claims except paint drawing maps.

I believe both the Turks and the Russians contrary to your chest beating.
The Russians are right that they did not warn their aircraft of Turkish CAPs because they did not think them a threat.
The Turks are right that they warned the Russian about the airspace violation because they did, the Radar track clearly shows a violation of airspace that gives Turkey the right to shoot the aircraft down.
The Russians did not bother because they did not think Turkey would take such a measure to protect its proxy assets in Syria.

 

[Khafee]

I would suggest writing outside of a post otherwise it does not go into any noticiations.
Secondly, I have absolutely lost what you are even trying to say. You came up with the wild theory about Russia letting its crew get shot down. A theory which I shot down and you have ZERO technical proof to deny it but were eager to use personal attacks to try and act all tough. Sadly for you, I am the last person on which such desperate tactics work and have turned those around on you. Clearly, you seem delusional to think that you have at any point any solid base in this argument.

I'm lost!!

 

[A.M.]

And today due to US/UK manipulation , we find the two nation who were against wars in region up against each other

Typical Pakistani thinking.

Is US/UK responsible for the ISIS oil being smuggled and sold through Turkey as well?

Is US/UK responsible for Turkey bombing YPG as they try to clear ISIS held areas?

Is US/UK responsible for the flow of ISIS fighters in and out of the Turkish/Syria border?

Continue to think like a third world country and you will always remain one.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Certain they started the Gulf war 1 , and then destroyed Iraq Gulf war 2 , creating void that resulted in ISIS

Iraq used to be a very quiet place internationally specially after iran-iraq war , the only time you would hear about iraq was in football game or occasional visit by its leader to meetings

There were no WMD in iraq , so when it was destroyed the civilian government went away , and hate was placed into the region which gave bith to the Bastard child we know as ISIS


Presently Turkey is being used like a sacrificial Lamb by NATO to proxy war with Russia , who is there to protect their Ally Mr Assad , who again is a legitimate leader no different then any other government in Gulf

I recall , in 70's Pakistan was put in a place , a proxy war with Russia , with F16 gifts the modern day scenario is same as that past push we got what did we get in return

Afghan refugees!!!! was our present and poverty


What is Turkey getting for this act ? Same Syrian Refugees

 

[SQ8]

I'm lost!!

That is for another poster. His theory that Russia let the aircraft get shot down bears no weight and his desperation in defending it shows.

 

[xenon54 out]

I believe both the Turks and the Russians contrary to your chest beating.

What chest beating are you talking about, discussing about an issue became chest beating?
Look at the Chinese and Indian trolls insulting Turks in very racist manner in every single thread if you wanna see chest beating and then you say i am the one chest beating here.
Nice moderation in PDF, but you know what? I dont bother anymore, give your Chinese buddies free hand in trolling its your forum after all.

The Russians did not bother because they did not think Turkey would take such a measure to protect its proxy assets in Syria.

Sry but that sound like a monumental idiocy to ignore warnings over months even thought there were Aircraft shot down previously on that border.
RoE on Syrian border changed in 2012 and a clear warning was issued that any aircraft entering Turkish airspace from Syria will be shot down, if Russian dont bother to take this very clear warning serious then they have only themselves to blame.

 

[SQ8]

What chest beating are you talking about, discussing about an issue became chest beating?
Look at the Chinese and Indian trolls insulting Turks in very racist manner in every single thread if you wanna see chest beating and then you say i am the one chest beating here.
Nice moderation in PDF, but you know what? I dont bother anymore, give your Chinese buddies free hand in trolling its your forum after all.


Sry but that sound like a monumental idiocy to ignore warnings over months even thought there were Aircraft shot down previously on that border.
RoE on Syrian border changed in 2012 and a clear warning was issued that any aircraft entering Turkish airspace from Syria will be shot down, if Russian dont bother to take this very clear warning serious then they have only themselves to blame.

You have a mod assigned to the section, you can ask him directly or raise this issue in G.H.Q. I am now almost part-time here and not very active.

As for the topic, you are still not getting the point. It does not matter what RoE's existed or did not; the Russians were under the impression that they could get away with these violations as they were doing so earlier with out any reaction from Turkey. This time, it did not work.

 

[A.M.]

On topic: Warnings are given all the time to invading aircrafts, 99% of the time such aircrafts leave on their own or are escorted out without any issues.

Every country in the world has specific ROEs in place as well but no one decides to shoot down other planes simply because they were within 5 miles of their border or crossed over for a 1 minute period. Such extreme action is only taken when there are other, more significant reasons involved.

Shooting down a place was the last thing that should have been done but it exhibits Turkey's frustrations that are greater than an airspace violation in a disputed part of the country. Turkey through its influence on the Turkmen rebels wants to have a seat at the table when all parties involved in Syria sit down for negotiations. Russia had been bombing North Western Turkmen part of Syria and effectively reducing that sphere of influence. The aircraft shoot down is a result of the broader anger that Turkey has at the way things are going in Syria ever since Russian became involved.

Make no mistake about it. Turkey, SA, US, Iran and Russia are like a pack of wolves salivating over Syria and their opportunity of grabbing a bite of the apple. Turkey, SA and US were winning for a long time, now it's Russia's and Iran's turn.

 

[xenon54 out]

You have a mod assigned to the section, you can ask him directly or raise this issue in G.H.Q. I am now almost part-time here and not very active.

As for the topic, you are still not getting the point. It does not matter what RoE's existed or did not; the Russians were under the impression that they could get away with these violations as they were doing so earlier with out any reaction from Turkey. This time, it did not work.

I wrote a wall of text but deleted it again, its not worth it because i think nothing will change after seeing countless discussions with the moderation regarding trolling with a disappointing outcome at the end.

 

[airmarshal]

@FlyCheatter
@airmarshal
Read the title. I am not gonna argue with bullshits. Tell me something about my arguments and Russian lies about Su-24 ?

How is that bullshit? If this is bullshit then how do I believe you saying Russia is lying?

If Russia is lying, how do I believe you Turkey is telling truth?

Russia's bombing has made an impact. This is not wishful thinking.

I second what @A.M. says.

 

[Arsalan mehmud]

The Russians are not technically at fault when one looks at the airspace in the Area of operations. They would have no need to warn the Turks because they were convinced that there would be no retaliation for it. The reason being that unlike both Putin and Erdogan, the leaders of the other nations fighting in the region are not strongmen nor egoistic to go ahead and try to seek a confrontation needlessly.

The Turks have their rebels being pounded as well since Assad is focused on them rather than ISIS as he knows the rest of the world is still giving ISIS a hard time. Turkey allowed ISIS to grow because it wanted Assad out, and it has many other proxies fighting in there.. the proxies have been taking a massive pounding within the past month from Russian and Syrian sorties.
The map of the area of operations then shows how easy it is to end up having technical airspace violations that last a minute at maximum and would be simply unknown to the pilot. These violations have been happening for quite a while now and the Turks would regard them the same way they were until Erdogan decides that the Turkmen are in deep trouble and need help. The Radar track shows that a CAP was setup precisely to catch the Russians in that track of airspace where they wont know they are making that error.. and boom.

nice revelation...

 

[fox 2]

@yugocrosrb95
Unfortunately.

 

[blueshift]

Might be possible the russian technology did not recieve any signals at that time....But they might have known about the fact that they are patrolling a rebel's border they did it 45 days ago got warnings and protests and now they are trying to intensify the situation .They bombed Bab ul Hawa in response to the air attack . Would that be a just response ?

 

[TurAr]

I believe both the Turks and the Russians contrary to your chest beating.
The Russians are right that they did not warn their aircraft of Turkish CAPs because they did not think them a threat.
The Turks are right that they warned the Russian about the airspace violation because they did, the Radar track clearly shows a violation of airspace that gives Turkey the right to shoot the aircraft down.
The Russians did not bother because they did not think Turkey would take such a measure to protect its proxy assets in Syria.

Russians were under the impression that they could get away with these violations as they were doing so earlier with out any reaction from Turkey. This time, it did not work.

I mean, seeing Chinese and Indian trolls acting and commenting on the matter as if they know a shit is something I can understand. But seeing a moderator having this much opinion without having any knowledge tells a lot about Chinese source of encouragement for spreading BS to their heart's content.

You are clearly unaware about Turkey's, previous warnings to Russia on how serious it is about protecting the borders. Maybe you need to learn more about military and geopolitics before sharing your ignorant judgements on who is right or wrong?

I shared an BBC article on another thread. Let me copy and paste it exclusively for you:

5 OCTOBER 2015: Syria conflict: Nato warns Russia on air strikes - BBC News

Syria conflict: Nato warns Russia on air strikes

Nato has urged Russia to end air strikes "on the Syrian opposition and civilians", days after Moscow began raids to support Syria's government.

Moscow says it is targeting Islamic State and other Islamist positions, but US-led allies and Turkey say government opponents are targeted.

Turkish F-16 fighter jets were scrambled after a Russian plane entered Turkey's air space on Saturday.

Russia said the violation was for just a few seconds and due to poor weather.

Saturday's interception took place near Yayladagi in the southern Hatay region, Turkey says. The foreign ministry in Ankara said it had summoned the Russian ambassador to issue a "strong protest".

Turkish jets patrolling the border were also "harassed" by an unidentified plane on Sunday, Turkey said.

A statement by Nato's 28 members, that include Turkey, warned of "the extreme danger of such irresponsible behaviour" and urged Russia "to cease and desist".

US Secretary of State John Kerry said Turkey would have been within its rights to shoot the jets down.

"The Turkish Armed Forces are clearly instructed," Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told Turkish TV. "Even if it is a flying bird, it will be intercepted."

But he played down the possibility of a "Turkey-Russia crisis", saying that channels between the two countries remained open.

(...)

Analysis - Jonathan Marcus, BBC Defence & Diplomatic Correspondent
The Russian incursion into Turkish air space has set alarm bells ringing in Nato with Alliance ambassadors describing it as "irresponsible behaviour".

The US Secretary of State John Kerry has also expressed his concern, noting that this is "precisely the kind of thing" Washington warned about in pressing Russia for talks to avoid mid-air incidents.

Turkish jets shot down a Syrian Mig-fighter in March of last year. Another Syrian aircraft, possibly a helicopter, was shot down last May.

Nato has called on Russia to "take all necessary measures" to ensure that such violations do not take place in the future. American sources claim that, far from being an accident, the Russian pilots knew exactly what they were doing.

As the Russian air campaign moves into a higher gear, this episode illustrates some of the wider dangers involved.

 

[Ghazwa e Hind]

As a Pakistani, i support Turkey in its war with any country in the world. I have very strong disagreements with policies of Turkey in many cases but as a Muslim brother country, i can even fight for the Turkey and its people. Pakistan and Turkey should sign a defense pact for a common defense. Many Indians and Westerners want to "destroy" Turkey because they jealously guard their heritage and culture. Security of Islamic culture lies in the security of Turk culture. Despite of a huge 'secularization" campaign in Turkey, they are still the biggest preservers of Muslim heritage and history.

As a Pakistani Muslim, my support is for Turkey and Turks!