How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[wakapdf]

If that rhetoric is shared by your military... good for you...

Apparently, it is. Dont get me wrong, I am up for striking deep into enemy's heartland but, sadly, we cant. We cant match IAF's numbers specially when it comes to striking deep. Sure PAF pilots can try kamikaze attacks but the turnout wont be good. IAF would annihilate us in their airspace (SAMs and numbers). Thus, purely defensive

 

[abdulbarijan]

Sandy

Whislt PAF wait for this LWF based on J20 (10 YEARS) WHO TACKLES 270 SU30MKI ????

The threat is here TODAY not 2020 WHEN RAFALE & FGFA have arrived

India signs for 42 more SU30MKI kits today

BBC News - India, Russia sign new defence deals

This confirms the latest batch ordered TAKING su30mki nos to 270 fighters by 2017

That is a lot of firepower and HUGE TRUST in this machine which has been in service for a decade now.

coming back to the thread can we please stick to REALISTIC options this talk of J20/J31 is not happening

PAF has 2 options

MORE F16s bock 52S (18 additonal on the table) I ASK WHAT YOU WAITING FOR 70% OF YOU SWEAR by the F16/52 being the best counter to MKI...

and

FC20/J10 = Again where is PAF with this deal ?????THE fighter has been flying in PLAAF since 2005 and the MKI threat is now massive 150+ AND FRM above BBC news is growing even bigger WITH 42 MORE KITS ORDERED for assembly in india

Do I need to say something

On one hand there is the "today talk" but when it comes to boosting about the fleet suddenly the claims come that of the "projected" ones after 2017 ....

 

[danger007]

May be you are right JF-17 might have to go against MKI's but have you guys ever thought there is a very simple way to take MKI's down. If I had one of those babies behind me drop down to 200 AGL and let the Subedar-Major take care of it with a Man-portable air-defense systems simple. Just because you are in a Fighter doesn't mean you have to go head to head. New Warfare or Art of war has changed a lot in the past 10 years.
I have seen one of those simulations they are pretty good 80% of the fighters who entered the 20 mile radius called the CIRCLE were shot down by the ground forces and it showed that the enemy fighter were so distracted by the ground forces that the hunter became the hunted, When the pilot entered the RED ZONE the CIRCLE he quickly went on the offensive and was taken down. Plan old tactics 2 fighter go into enemy Air Space finger them and lower then into the CIRCLE. You can do it only once the enemy will not fall for it again so you move your position. Ironic how ground forces needed Air power and now Air power needs ground forces.

What if they shot down your own JET??? lol then why don't you bring thousands of AGL instead of bringing costly fighter jets... huh...

 

[MilSpec]

Sandy

Whislt PAF wait for this LWF based on J20 (10 YEARS) WHO TACKLES 270 SU30MKI ????

The threat is here TODAY not 2020 WHEN RAFALE & FGFA have arrived

Answer: there is no need for a counter, Indian political leadership is impotent and will not militarily engage pakistan, PAF knows that too hence they are not in a rush.

Offensive capabilities are substantially marred as all our strike platforms cannot be optimally used as substantial squadrons of MKI and M29 will have to stay back for CAP, unless LCAMK2 is completely capable of handling point defense role against all intruders freeing up all MKI/M29s/m2k to do what they do the best. And from the looks of LCA mk2 this will take another 10 years.

On PDF, most members think PAF has all aces up there sleeves and IAF shows all it cards. Our black projects are so well guarded that no one gets even a whiff of them. ******************** there are two more jammers on board MKI and another platform which I wont go into. As far as BVR is concerned, all of Mig29 and MKI missiles and variants are not in the public domain.

As far as defensive capabilities of MKI vis a vis PAF is concerned, I am not loosing any sleep.

 

[arp2041]

Answer: there is no need for a counter, Indian political leadership is impotent and will not militarily engage pakistan, PAF knows that too hence they are not in a rush.

I hope by this statement u are not asking to start a war with a nuclear armed country, though we are conventionally way ahead of Pakistan but a war will only put a break on India Shining story for few years for sure, but that does not mean that any 26/11 type attack will go without any Indian retaliation as than public pressure would be too great to handle by the GOI.

[/SIZE][/COLOR][/U]


Do I need to say something

On one hand there is the "today talk" but when it comes to boosting about the fleet suddenly the claims come that of the "projected" ones after 2017 ....

yes IAF currently don't have 272 sukhois but they have close to 200 MKIs with addition of 16-20/year.

 

[MilSpec]

I hope by this statement u are not asking to start a war with a nuclear armed country, though we are conventionally way ahead of Pakistan but a war will only put a break on India Shining story for few years for sure, but that does not mean that any 26/11 type attack will go without any Indian retaliation as than public pressure would be too great to handle by the GOI.

One word "Israel"

 

[Paan Singh]

Answer: there is no need for a counter, Indian political leadership is impotent and will not militarily engage pakistan, PAF knows that too hence they are not in a rush.

Offensive capabilities are substantially marred as all our strike platforms cannot be optimally used as substantial squadrons of MKI and M29 will have to stay back for CAP, unless LCAMK2 is completely capable of handling point defense role against all intruders freeing up all MKI/M29s/m2k to do what they do the best. And from the looks of LCA mk2 this will take another 10 years.

On PDF, most members think PAF has all aces up there sleeves and IAF shows all it cards. Our black projects are so well guarded that no one gets even a whiff of them. ******************** there are two more jammers on board MKI and another platform which I wont go into. As far as BVR is concerned, all of Mig29 and MKI missiles and variants are not in the public domain.

As far as defensive capabilities of MKI vis a vis PAF is concerned, I am not loosing any sleep.

Thats the answer of the whole indian defence.I feel that why we purchase billion dollar arms when we know that they are tied with strings of our own a##holes in parliament...

They make our 1.3 million army as impotent or of no use and same goes with AF and navy....

Now even they cant handle small nations like maldives

India needs leader not big army who is handled by prostituteees sitting in parliament...

Otherwise RAW is enough to handle our neighbors if given free hand and presently it is handled by our PM who never speaks...

 

[Srinivas]

@TVVELVEMO$ India is not sitting idle while Pakistan develops, India is about to Induct Rafale which will take care of any Chinese or Typoons.

Regarding RED flag exercise the real results and real strategies will never be known and kept secret.

 

[surya kiran]

Our black projects are so well guarded that no one gets even a whiff of them.

The less said about the real surveillance and monitoring capabilities of our forces, the better it is. Both visual and electronic. Forget, the armed forces. In case of an emergency, the ability to track, monitor and listen in to real-time conversations over any kind of mobile/wireless communication is a matter of 2 minutes. And this is just the ordinary cop. This I know for a fact.

The capabilities of the MoD is of a different league for surveillance into enemy airspace.

 

[arp2041]

One word "Israel"

But Pakistan cannot be compared to any of it's neighbors be it Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan or even Turkey.

Israel has an unchallenged air-superiority over Middle-Eastern skies, that's a luxury which we certainly do not enjoy.

Actually ur one word should have been "MOSSAD"

 

[Paan Singh]

I hope by this statement u are not asking to start a war with a nuclear armed country, though we are conventionally way ahead of Pakistan but a war will only put a break on India Shining story for few years for sure, but that does not mean that any 26/11 type attack will go without any Indian retaliation as than public pressure would be too great to handle by the GOI.

Nuclear war is myth and pakistanis use this trick to manipulate western powers and india.
We saw in kargil war who shows that pakistanis dont have blood to use nukes..
Mushy threatened india with nukes but vajpayee clearly said that we will wipe out a nation from map and bring it on....

then mushy sent sharif to U.S to save its a@@ and to take out pakistan from mess.


and now public pressure?

Even pakistan sends more armed men and kill here 20000 on streets,indian govt wont listen...i m sure and i can bet my life on it .

look at the streets of delhi n then see the pressure as u r talking .

 

[MilSpec]

But Pakistan cannot be compared to any of it's neighbors be it Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan or even Turkey.

Israel has an unchallenged air-superiority over Middle-Eastern skies, that's a luxury which we certainly do not enjoy.

Actually ur one word should have been "MOSSAD"

It's about the will, Six soldiers abducted and Israel declares war, 200 people butchered and we send dossiers. thats the difference.

It doesn't matter if we had f22 raptors, our govt would have done crap.

As far as countering MKI, In defensive role, f16's/Saab Erieye combo will be able to match MKI in offensive role, as far as pure counter is concerned:

Numbers on paper dont matter, what matters is size of your strike package and configuration,

we are not flying all of 700 odd combat aircrafts against thier 350 aircrafts at a time

Numerically a strike package of 3 mki and 4 M2k can run into 10 f16's, giving numerical superiority to PAF at that time,

The assumption is MKI strike package is aggressor, PAF will have time to get enough numbers of planes in the air to engage or even intercept. Even if 4 PAF f16's or FC1 fire a salvo and disengage without hitting any, and IAF strike package has to jettision its munition to take evasive actions, PAF's mission succeeds and they successfully counter MKI.

On flipside, if F16 formations are trying to hit trombay high and run into a formation of patrolling MKI flying pure air superiority mode from lohegaon, then narrative changes. Eireye wont have the range, f16's will be on their own, probably will have to jettison their bomb loads and counter MKI in air-combat. All that matters is pilot skills, environment of engagement, weapons loadout and some luck. Anything is possible then.

Its all about planning.

 

[wakapdf]

It's about the will, Six soldiers abducted and Israel declares war, 200 people butchered and we send dossiers. thats the difference.

It doesn't matter if we had f22 raptors, our govt would have done crap.

As far as countering MKI, In defensive role, f16's/Saab Erieye combo will be able to match MKI in offensive role, as far as pure counter is concerned:

F-16s are useless when it comes to India. USA will block the codes and f-16 wont be able to take off, let alone enter Indian airspace. JF-17 is the key for India's doorstep. Jf17+ Saab/KJ variant are enough for me to sleep happy.

p.s. Israeli jammers on-board MKI are not a secret. We know, We know

 

[SQ8]

The thread is not about how PAF should counter IAF, it's about countering SU30MKI.

Numbers on paper dont matter, what matters is size of your strike package and configuration,

we are not flying all of 700 odd combat aircrafts against thier 350 aircrafts at a time

Numerically a strike package of 3 mki and 4 M2k can run into 10 f16's, giving numerical superiority to PAF at that time,

The assumption is MKI strike package is aggressor, PAF will have time to get enough numbers of planes in the air to engage or even intercept. Even if 4 PAF f16's or FC1 fire a salvo and disengage without hitting any, and IAF strike package has to jettision its munition to take evasive actions, PAF's mission succeeds and they successfully counter MKI.

On flipside, if F16 formations are trying to hit trombay high and run into a formation of patrolling MKI flying pure air superiority mode from lohegaon, then narrative changes. Eireye wont have the range, f16's will be on their own, probably will have to jettison their bomb loads and counter MKI in air-combat. All that matters is pilot skills, environment of engagement, weapons loadout and some luck. Anything is possible then.

Its all about planning.

Thank you for demonstrating an understanding of aerial warfare to the insane on both sides.

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

Sometimes I just wonder.....

@ Mr. Rockstar. "I do not know that Algerians or Malaysians came to Red flag. I do not think so"


Oh! I think so.
First where did I say those nations had to haul their lumbering Flankies to RED FLAG? Do look up US-Malay Exercise series Cope Taufan 20XX. PAK FA radar is completely different architechture. Do familiarize yourself with that...training mode et.al.
The Israeli radars I was talking about are not the ones you seem to be talking about....read it again.

And regarding the Global Commerce via Pakistan; I was NOT talking about YOU. I meant US, Canada, EU, Brazil, Japan, Korea, Australia etc. And just because it is XMAS, let me clue you in to where I was going with that; once all these countries rely on Pakistan as a business node then they will show their displeasure IF you disrupt their business by sending in your 270 odd flankers to Pakistan. Pakistan would not need weapons but more business to hedge against your threats. But that presupposes the Pakistanis will actually listen to what is being said. You OTOH are free to invest in Iran. Good luck.

@ Mr. Sukhoi_30MKI.
I am glad for you. My missive actually accounts for your French wonder but you seem oblivious to the concept of aggressor fleet.

AND "Regarding RED flag exercise the real results and real strategies will never be known and kept secret."

Do the USAF & Pentagon know? 'cause they give out that information like M&Ms to every Aviation dude with Class XXX clearance.

Ya all have a good one now!! ......even if you do not celebrate.