How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[alimobin memon]

Let PAF induct atleast 1st J-10 a b c d e or any version. Then we can discuss. & u guys have a plan for only 36 of these fighters. By the time PAF has 36 J-10 ... IAF wil have 270 SU-30mki.



The ranges are all correct. Pls point out the mistake so i can correct it.

the Jf17 has 130 km against 5m^2 , the old generation was imported by china in 1990's jf17 inducted KLJ7 in 2007 which was in 2010 further improved (tweaked) u cannot judge the radar because chinese got the Tech from 1990's radar china also has major breakthrough's ... Zhuk me in range is lesser . same as ZHUK ME N011M BAR in SU30MKI has 120 km detection range for 5m^2 target and even if by 85% (for your sake ) the engagement range is 102!!! , Where as by 80% it is 96KM. You yourself explained that jf17 has greater range .
Further for your information russians are already worried about their 4th generation MIG 29 as it losses edge over jf17 ( not me saying u must know the event that happen about engines russians stated that than) and block 2 god knows what it would be ... Lates variant of MIG29 is SMT which is focused more on surface attack package and that has ZHUK ME radar (by the way it is not latest in series) there are different and improved variants too

Please Read this

Jf17 was supposed to be a jet fighter to replace 3rd generation fleet , but after 1998 it eventual became the new fighter with 4+ generation avionics and airframe the new canopy , new airframe material , more composites than steel and RAM at critical positions ... Later jf17 was offered GRIFO S7 which was Originally Designed to replace APG 66 of F16 , However China came up with the better solution name klj7 version derived from KLJ10 however when it was introduced PAC was looking at the RC400 of MIRAGE 2000 for Jf17 but later PAC tested KLJ7 and approved it however neither was RC400 later offered so KLj7 was the solution .. Pakistan also introduced the DEEC Electronic warfare suite to jf17 with an excellent Radar warning receiver to the program, Radar warning receiver is believed to have a good range against enemy aircraft radar locking to the jf17. Later it was announced that SD10A and later upgraded to B are being procured by PAF , for jf17 some claimed SD10A had 70km range while'st B had over 100 but for the Effective usage of SD10B JF17 Radar needed to be effective , KLJ7v2 introduced already and was announced that it is easy to upgrade klj7 to V2 and so are updated let me tell you that in EW suite of jf17 contains Radar warning reciever that can help to know the enemy aircraft location if needed which can support to the mechanical steered array radar (doppler) of jf17 ... not just that jf17 has also external EW suite name k300G ... which can provide further Protection by supporting the EW Suite fitted on vertical stablizer as one works as RWR and K300G as jamming role to do multi tasking ( If they are designed to do one operation in combat scenario at a time) whil'st SU30MKI has the same but lacks the internal jamming capability as jf17 has in DEEC EW SUITE k300G is external one i repeat. Some one said that "RCS doesn't matter" that is not correct. When a enemy jet detects u first it is indeed a problem , Locking an Su30mki with KLJ7V2 if is little difficult is because of SU30MKI has a good radar ok , but one must realise that SU30MKI locking Jf17 is also difficult since in war scenario when both are well equipped than Jf17 also has EW SUITE to self protect from BVR ... So what I am saying is if BVR are fired from both side will also have less probability to kill because the as we all know the modern BVR's are Active Guided which have radar transceiver which have electronics to only track the missile to target , and as told both have a very good and autonomous RWR to alert the jet that missile is approaching and a good time b/w at least 30km . which is enough to deploy Chaff's and counter measures , furthermore they can get out of missile's range (which is tricky) or out course, and at the other hand both BVR's have anti jammers so again same probability for both to die and if a BVR is fired from 20 - 30 km radius it does not work as effective as in long range (if u know BVR u wont argue on this line).In end WVR again .So the conclusion for me is indeed in WVR SU30MKI is super maneuverable but if Jf17 did got HMD with missile as effective as off bore sight of +/- 50 degree off bore sight than I can happily say both the pilot will have an dangerous Bogey's to each other.

Don't Judge a book by it's cover

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...hould-counter-su-30-mki-26.html#ixzz21ItDM2ik

 

[Mr.Hunt]

the Jf17 has 130 km against 5m^2 , the old generation was imported by china in 1990's jf17 inducted KLJ7 in 2007 which was in 2010 further improved (tweaked) u cannot judge the radar because chinese got the Tech from 1990's radar china also has major breakthrough's ... Zhuk me in range is lesser . same as ZHUK ME N011M BAR in SU30MKI has 120 km detection range for 5m^2 target and even if by 85% (for your sake ) the engagement range is 102!!! , Where as by 80% it is 96KM. You yourself explained that jf17 has greater range .
Further for your information russians are already worried about their 4th generation MIG 29 as it losses edge over jf17 ( not me saying u must know the event that happen about engines russians stated that than) and block 2 god knows what it would be ... Lates variant of MIG29 is SMT which is focused more on surface attack package and that has ZHUK ME radar (by the way it is not latest in series) there are different and improved variants too

Please Read this

Jf17 was supposed to be a jet fighter to replace 3rd generation fleet , but after 1998 it eventual became the new fighter with 4+ generation avionics and airframe the new canopy , new airframe material , more composites than steel and RAM at critical positions ... Later jf17 was offered GRIFO S7 which was Originally Designed to replace APG 66 of F16 , However China came up with the better solution name klj7 version derived from KLJ10 however when it was introduced PAC was looking at the RC400 of MIRAGE 2000 for Jf17 but later PAC tested KLJ7 and approved it however neither was RC400 later offered so KLj7 was the solution .. Pakistan also introduced the DEEC Electronic warfare suite to jf17 with an excellent Radar warning receiver to the program, Radar warning receiver is believed to have a good range against enemy aircraft radar locking to the jf17. Later it was announced that SD10A and later upgraded to B are being procured by PAF , for jf17 some claimed SD10A had 70km range while'st B had over 100 but for the Effective usage of SD10B JF17 Radar needed to be effective , KLJ7v2 introduced already and was announced that it is easy to upgrade klj7 to V2 and so are updated let me tell you that in EW suite of jf17 contains Radar warning reciever that can help to know the enemy aircraft location if needed which can support to the mechanical steered array radar (doppler) of jf17 ... not just that jf17 has also external EW suite name k300G ... which can provide further Protection by supporting the EW Suite fitted on vertical stablizer as one works as RWR and K300G as jamming role to do multi tasking ( If they are designed to do one operation in combat scenario at a time) whil'st SU30MKI has the same but lacks the internal jamming capability as jf17 has in DEEC EW SUITE k300G is external one i repeat. Some one said that "RCS doesn't matter" that is not correct. When a enemy jet detects u first it is indeed a problem , Locking an Su30mki with KLJ7V2 if is little difficult is because of SU30MKI has a good radar ok , but one must realise that SU30MKI locking Jf17 is also difficult since in war scenario when both are well equipped than Jf17 also has EW SUITE to self protect from BVR ... So what I am saying is if BVR are fired from both side will also have less probability to kill because the as we all know the modern BVR's are Active Guided which have radar transceiver which have electronics to only track the missile to target , and as told both have a very good and autonomous RWR to alert the jet that missile is approaching and a good time b/w at least 30km . which is enough to deploy Chaff's and counter measures , furthermore they can get out of missile's range (which is tricky) or out course, and at the other hand both BVR's have anti jammers so again same probability for both to die and if a BVR is fired from 20 - 30 km radius it does not work as effective as in long range (if u know BVR u wont argue on this line).In end WVR again .So the conclusion for me is indeed in WVR SU30MKI is super maneuverable but if Jf17 did got HMD with missile as effective as off bore sight of +/- 50 degree off bore sight than I can happily say both the pilot will have an dangerous Bogey's to each other.

Don't Judge a book by it's cover

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...hould-counter-su-30-mki-26.html#ixzz21ItDM2ik

Just give me any source which clain tat KLJ-7v2 has a detection range of 130 kms for 5m2 rcs target. And also for ur statement tat KLJ-7 is superior to ZHUK ME. Thats all i need & nothing else. Just 2 Links ..... Can u get it ?

 

[abdulbarijan]

Just give me any source which clain tat KLJ-7v2 has a detection range of 130 kms for 5m2 rcs target. And also for ur statement tat KLJ-7 is superior to ZHUK ME. Thats all i need & nothing else. Just 2 Links ..... Can u get it ?

here u go...

Kanwa had an interview with PAF's General Javaid Ahmed, during which he stated that:
- In 2012, they will be bring out the JF17 Blk 2. The main improvements are the addition of IRF, the development of a twin seat version, adding datalink and development of an export version JF17.
- happy with the performance of the KJL7, so no immediate plans to switch to AESA (KJL7 specs: detection range for fighter sized target 130km; can track 16 targets and engage 2 at the same time; have SAR mapping capability)
- The Chinese indigenous engine is currently undergoing flight testing and may be a while before it is fitted to a JF17
- In 2011 the JF17 test fired: 1 x C802 (hit a seaborne target 90km away, max range 180km); 2 x LS-6 bombs, one is a 500kg GPS guided weapon with 60km range and CEP of 15m, the other was a 250kg laser/IIR+GPS guided weapon with a range of 65km and CEP of 5.3-7.5m; SD10 and other weapons.
translation credits -Plawolf

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...hunder-information-pool-23.html#ixzz21GTxEWhp

 

[Alphacharlie]

the Jf17 has 130 km against 5m^2 , the old generation was imported by china in 1990's jf17 inducted KLJ7 in 2007 which was in 2010 further improved (tweaked) u cannot judge the radar because chinese got the Tech from 1990's radar china also has major breakthrough's ... Zhuk me in range is lesser . same as ZHUK ME N011M BAR in SU30MKI has 120 km detection range for 5m^2 target and even if by 85% (for your sake ) the engagement range is 102!!! , Where as by 80% it is 96KM. You yourself explained that jf17 has greater range .
Further for your information russians are already worried about their 4th generation MIG 29 as it losses edge over jf17 ( not me saying u must know the event that happen about engines russians stated that than) and block 2 god knows what it would be ... Lates variant of MIG29 is SMT which is focused more on surface attack package and that has ZHUK ME radar (by the way it is not latest in series) there are different and improved variants too

Please Read this

Jf17 was supposed to be a jet fighter to replace 3rd generation fleet , but after 1998 it eventual became the new fighter with 4+ generation avionics and airframe the new canopy , new airframe material , more composites than steel and RAM at critical positions ... Later jf17 was offered GRIFO S7 which was Originally Designed to replace APG 66 of F16 , However China came up with the better solution name klj7 version derived from KLJ10 however when it was introduced PAC was looking at the RC400 of MIRAGE 2000 for Jf17 but later PAC tested KLJ7 and approved it however neither was RC400 later offered so KLj7 was the solution .. Pakistan also introduced the DEEC Electronic warfare suite to jf17 with an excellent Radar warning receiver to the program, Radar warning receiver is believed to have a good range against enemy aircraft radar locking to the jf17. Later it was announced that SD10A and later upgraded to B are being procured by PAF , for jf17 some claimed SD10A had 70km range while'st B had over 100 but for the Effective usage of SD10B JF17 Radar needed to be effective , KLJ7v2 introduced already and was announced that it is easy to upgrade klj7 to V2 and so are updated let me tell you that in EW suite of jf17 contains Radar warning reciever that can help to know the enemy aircraft location if needed which can support to the mechanical steered array radar (doppler) of jf17 ... not just that jf17 has also external EW suite name k300G ... which can provide further Protection by supporting the EW Suite fitted on vertical stablizer as one works as RWR and K300G as jamming role to do multi tasking ( If they are designed to do one operation in combat scenario at a time) whil'st SU30MKI has the same but lacks the internal jamming capability as jf17 has in DEEC EW SUITE k300G is external one i repeat. Some one said that "RCS doesn't matter" that is not correct. When a enemy jet detects u first it is indeed a problem , Locking an Su30mki with KLJ7V2 if is little difficult is because of SU30MKI has a good radar ok , but one must realise that SU30MKI locking Jf17 is also difficult since in war scenario when both are well equipped than Jf17 also has EW SUITE to self protect from BVR ... So what I am saying is if BVR are fired from both side will also have less probability to kill because the as we all know the modern BVR's are Active Guided which have radar transceiver which have electronics to only track the missile to target , and as told both have a very good and autonomous RWR to alert the jet that missile is approaching and a good time b/w at least 30km . which is enough to deploy Chaff's and counter measures , furthermore they can get out of missile's range (which is tricky) or out course, and at the other hand both BVR's have anti jammers so again same probability for both to die and if a BVR is fired from 20 - 30 km radius it does not work as effective as in long range (if u know BVR u wont argue on this line).In end WVR again .So the conclusion for me is indeed in WVR SU30MKI is super maneuverable but if Jf17 did got HMD with missile as effective as off bore sight of +/- 50 degree off bore sight than I can happily say both the pilot will have an dangerous Bogey's to each other.

Don't Judge a book by it's cover

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...hould-counter-su-30-mki-26.html#ixzz21ItDM2ik

One question from a ChopperMan...Is KLJ7V2 L Band RADAR ?

 

[danger007]

here u go...

that is just an interview??? only

here u go...

that is just an interview??? only

 

[alimobin memon]

Just give me any source which clain tat KLJ-7v2 has a detection range of 130 kms for 5m2 rcs target. And also for ur statement tat KLJ-7 is superior to ZHUK ME. Thats all i need & nothing else. Just 2 Links ..... Can u get it ?

Ok I never said klj7 ,i said KLJ7v2 has better range than Zhuk me Radar , KLJ7 was updated in 2010 . Why would I lie that klj7v2 has range of 130 km ... Believe it or move one I don't have source to satisfy u nor i care if u believe , I cant believe whole pakistani members have told here many time about klj7v2 . At the other hand klj7v2 has greater range than Zhuk me in Air to Air mode whil'st the Zhuk me is more from surface targets like ship with excellent range which is better than klj7v2 ...

if u dont believe the interview that Abdul barijan provided than God bless you

 

[danger007]

One question from a ChopperMan...Is KLJ7V2 L Band RADAR ?

nope X-band ragar.........

 

[alimobin memon]

One question from a ChopperMan...Is KLJ7V2 L Band RADAR ?

X band radar

Ok I never said klj7 ,i said KLJ7v2 has better range than Zhuk me Radar , KLJ7 was updated in 2010 . Why would I lie that klj7v2 has range of 130 km ... Believe it or move one I don't have source to satisfy u nor i care if u believe , I cant believe whole pakistani members have told here many time about klj7v2 . At the other hand klj7v2 has greater range than Zhuk me in Air to Air mode whil'st the Zhuk me is more from surface targets like ship with excellent range which is better than klj7v2 ...

if u dont believe the interview that Abdul barijan provided than God bless you

People here dont read full posts than say need source be technical man i know u guys have better size airforce but that doesnt mean what we have is junk

 

[abdulbarijan]

that is just an interview??? only




that is just an interview??? only

From who?? thats right Javaid ahmed so u can try to "not believe it" ...because its up to u...ive only stated the link which states so...

after all the pattern of posters (usual) is

"please state an official source...."

after the source is given

the usual reaction is to criticize the source terming it unreliable...

and if thats not possible

"that was only an interview" as it becomes like a last resort...


and dont worry...this goes both for pakistai and indian members..

 

[Bratva]

Just give me any source which clain tat KLJ-7v2 has a detection range of 130 kms for 5m2 rcs target. And also for ur statement tat KLJ-7 is superior to ZHUK ME. Thats all i need & nothing else. Just 2 Links ..... Can u get it ?

Go to JF-17 Information Pool which specifically made for ignorants like you. There you will find the interview of JF-17 project director Air commodor Javaid Ahmad in which he said KLJ V1 has 130 Km range for 5m^2. Based on this info, we can guess upgraded KLJ-7 version 2 will have 150-160 KM range.

 

[alimobin memon]

Go to JF-17 Information Pool which specifically made for ignorants like you. There you will find the interview of JF-17 project director Air commodor Javaid Ahmad in which he said KLJ V1 has 130 Km range for 5m^2. Based on this info, we can guess upgraded KLJ-7 version 2 will have 150-160 KM range.

I have a question so tweaked klj7 is still klj7v1 and v2 is to be for block 2 wow man that means block 2 radar will have more range

 

[Mav3rick]

I have a question so tweaked klj7 is still klj7v1 and v2 is to be for block 2 wow man that means block 2 radar will have more range

I wonder if the JF-17 need such massive radar ranges especially since we can already detect & track every jet that takes off from the forward bases of India without even an AWEACS.

 

[manofwar]

@Alimobin man can you please specify your source for N011 Bars range?? I have been skimming the web, but the only thing that seems available is it's full range which is 400kms...........

 

[alimobin memon]

@Alimobin man can you please specify your source for N011 Bars range?? I have been skimming the web, but the only thing that seems available is it's full range which is 400kms...........

overall range is 400 km for example F16block 52+ over all range is 290km ... that could surface or aerial target

 

[INDIAISM]

@Alimobin man can you please specify your source for N011 Bars range?? I have been skimming the web, but the only thing that seems available is it's full range which is 400kms...........

Go through this thread...
www.defence.pk/forums/air-warfare/94948-radar-ranges-different-fighters-2.html