How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Irfan Baloch]

I’m not trying to upset anyone or degrade the JF-17 but my arguments are all counter rebuttals based on public knowledge available for all.

your posts are a most welcome. the very reason for this thread is that SU30 is universally agreed to be a formidable plane. there are no two arguments over it. this is why any adversary that is expecting to face it must be mulling over the ways to counter it.

re PAF its only India due to past confrontations hence the thread.

as far as JF-17 is concerned you dont need to clarify yourself although your comments are welcome but let us return the favour, JF-17 borrows a lot from Russian aeronautical and aviation knowledge base. our main engine is Russian with with we are more than happy but we very well know where JF-17 stands and in the presence of F-16 Block 52, I think the thread was started with PAF's front-line fighter in mind. or as you suggested pit x number of JF-17s to counter it.

 

[Kompromat]

Even though all of this sounds pretty fancy , calculating the RCS , IR signature , engine signature and radar detection. But what we so far have failed to realize is that the time has come for so called "Stand off weapons". We can calculate and shoot down an MKI , but what if never enters our airspace but could fire a SOM and do the damage it is supposed to do.

Therefore Pakistan must invest in close in weapon systems , anti cruise missile tech [Spada-2k was a great step] more as well as invest in high end long range SAM systems to keep these MKIs away from the border , contain their capabilities and be able to detect and shoot down if it enters Pakistani air space.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Strike first, strike fast, strike deep and strike hard..........think out of the box and there are many conventional and effective ways to counter Sukhoi or Rafael or any other fighter for that matter, sadly I can't share them here

 

[Kompromat]

Strike first, strike fast, strike deep and strike hard..........think out of the box and there are many conventional and effective ways to counter Sukhoi or Rafael or any other fighter for that matter, sadly I can't share them here

Guess what Indians would reply with , after you blow up their entire air fleet on ground [too exaggerated to begin with] ?

 

[manojb]

Guess what Indians would reply with , after you blow up their entire air fleet on ground [too exaggerated to begin with] ?

Seriously?? You've been promoted to Moderator!

 

[Kompromat]

Seriously?? You've been promoted to Moderator!

Use your brain before you use your keyboard.

 

[VCheng]

Guess what Indians would reply with , after you blow up their entire air fleet on ground [too exaggerated to begin with] ?

Assuming that such an unlikely scenario happens, India does have a limited second strike capability which is arguably more robust than Pakistan's second strike capability.

 

[Kompromat]

Assuming that such an unlikely scenario happens, India does have a limited second strike capability which is arguably more robust than Pakistan's second strike capability.

Exactly , which would well and truly lead to MAD.

 

[VCheng]

Exactly , which would well and truly lead to MAD.

All the more reason for sane people on both sides to work towards ensuring that the MADness never happens.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Anything that flies can be brought down.....the only thing is SU 30 is a bit tough when compared to the MiG 21

 

[Last Hope]

A war has many dimensions, before MKI's intrude into enemy territory. All long range SAM and Radar installations will be taken out by missiles or by dedicated aircrafts in SEAD mission.

Why do people miss this beauty, ask any Hellenic Air Force officials, Mirage 2000-9 is more than a match for F-16 Blk-52s. In every combat exercise, Mirages managed to Jam F-16 Blk-52 radars effectively, everytime. I wasn't aware of this fact, until recently an ex-Hellenic air force official joined our forum (IDF)

Well, it was not able to jam the JF-17 radars was it?
F-16 Block 52+ is not the only fighter in PAF inventory.


Incase of a war breakout, PAF still has an advantage over IAF. IAF needs to have Squadrons at North and North-East, whereas PAF has smaller area hence more flexible. The JF-17 is a new aircraft and the first dogfight would leave the enemy wandering on how to encounter. The RCS of JF-17 which is lower than the Su-30 is an advantage so is the lower IR signature. The Su-30s would be the first to appear in the JF-17 radar and a BVR has much better chances with higher RCS. Plus, the JF-17 will be less prone to radar jamming than Block 52+.

Another way to kill a Su-30 is SAM hit, which has been made obvious in the below post.

Even though all of this sounds pretty fancy , calculating the RCS , IR signature , engine signature and radar detection. But what we so far have failed to realize is that the time has come for so called "Stand off weapons". We can calculate and shoot down an MKI , but what if never enters our airspace but could fire a SOM and do the damage it is supposed to do.

Therefore Pakistan must invest in close in weapon systems , anti cruise missile tech [Spada-2k was a great step] more as well as invest in high end long range SAM systems to keep these MKIs away from the border , contain their capabilities and be able to detect and shoot down if it enters Pakistani air space.

And anyways, a war breakout will be a dangerous one with nuclear weapons used. Babur and Ra'ad cruise missiles, which are stealth, would be used against front enemy Air bases and infantry bases. (Conventional warhead can be used too).

 

[MastanKhan]

Even though all of this sounds pretty fancy , calculating the RCS , IR signature , engine signature and radar detection. But what we so far have failed to realize is that the time has come for so called "Stand off weapons". We can calculate and shoot down an MKI , but what if never enters our airspace but could fire a SOM and do the damage it is supposed to do.

Therefore Pakistan must invest in close in weapon systems , anti cruise missile tech [Spada-2k was a great step] more as well as invest in high end long range SAM systems to keep these MKIs away from the border , contain their capabilities and be able to detect and shoot down if it enters Pakistani air space.

Hi,

You are on the right track---but fixed assets---even though they are extremely potent are also extremely vulnerable to enemy strike capabilities---. So---you ought to have an x number of air superiority fighter aircraft with potent BVR's to compliment your long range surface to air missiles.

 

[danger007]

Hi,

You are on the right track---but fixed assets---even though they are extremely potent are also extremely vulnerable to enemy strike capabilities---. So---you ought to have an x number of air superiority fighter aircraft with potent BVR's to compliment your long range surface to air missiles.

welcome back sir........ i mess this vs thread ... i don't this kinda thread is alive until now.... hmmm

 

[TANMAY619]

i dont think paf has any deep strike ac that can strike as deep as the mkis.

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, it was not able to jam the JF-17 radars was it?
F-16 Block 52+ is not the only fighter in PAF inventory.


Incase of a war breakout, PAF still has an advantage over IAF. IAF needs to have Squadrons at North and North-East, whereas PAF has smaller area hence more flexible. The JF-17 is a new aircraft and the first dogfight would leave the enemy wandering on how to encounter. The RCS of JF-17 which is lower than the Su-30 is an advantage so is the lower IR signature. The Su-30s would be the first to appear in the JF-17 radar and a BVR has much better chances with higher RCS. Plus, the JF-17 will be less prone to radar jamming than Block 52+.

Another way to kill a Su-30 is SAM hit, which has been made obvious in the below post.


And anyways, a war breakout will be a dangerous one with nuclear weapons used. Babur and Ra'ad cruise missiles, which are stealth, would be used against front enemy Air bases and infantry bases. (Conventional warhead can be used too).

Sir,

You are in error----su 30 won't appear on j17's radar---as a matter of fact the jf 17 will appear on th su30's radar before it happens otherwise---.

Su 30 has a massive radar---I think that you missed out on the posts by our specialist gambit----.

The above scenario is in case long distance interception like over the ocean---on land---all the bases are close by---all air craft will be pretty much visible to each other.

You also have jumped ahead---the jf17 would have to pass thru the barrage of bvr's at first to come within wvr range.

You are correct on the second part---most of these bases are with surface to surface or air to ground weapons.