How Losing India’s Business Could Ruin Russia’s Defense Industry

[[Bregs]]

Russia is not going to loose any substantial business except MRCA and no MRTA n helicopter deals like apache and chinook which has been compensated well by large scale induction MI 17-5 and kamov 226

Russians are going to bag the frigates, nuclear subs, and FGFA deal in sue course

 

[rcrmj]

at the end day, India needs Russia way more than otherwise```without Russia you wont have a functioning India army at all, so you better not go sour with Russia, your primitive Industry and debt ridden economy left you not so much choices over fancy Western kits

 

[cerberus]

your understanding about aviation and national debt is way beyond ignorance`, the debt you quote from the thread is included personal, local institution and company loans from the Banks, which by the way does not included in national debt``lol, as a state China and Japan is the two biggest creditor in the world`fact!`and meanwhile your primitive India is in a hopeless borrowing spray ``
http://countryeconomy.com/national-debt/india

Its Shows You Understanding of Economics expected From 50 cent bots
National Debt is or Govt Debt is refers to the difference between government receipts and spending in a single year, that is, the increase of debt over a particular year.
it Money Owed to Taxpayers Fool Its a Public Borrowing Not External
Chinese

Total debt is at 282 percent of GDP, with the rapid pace of credit expansion worrying policy makers.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-08/china-s-very-high-mountain-of-debt

The External debt (or foreign debt) is the total debt a country owes to foreign creditors. The debtors can be the government, corporations or citizens of that country. The debt includes money owed to private commercial banks, other governments, orinternational financial institutions such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank.

The External Debt of India is 455 Billion In Comparison to $1.67 trillion oF China

11 trillion world's biggest industrial hub and now top tier R&D spender compared to 2 trillion foreign institutional funds controlled primitive society``yes, I think we are too overrated

Chinese Bull Shirking For Past 2 years And world Is Witnessing it
Chinese Stocks Fall Sharply, Leading Asian Markets Lower
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/business/dealbook/global-stock-markets.html?_r=0
China's external debt hits 10.28 trln yuan
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/17/c_134422609.htm
The Great Fall of China
http://www.economist.com/news/leade...one-investors-are-right-be-nervous-great-fall


Whereas India is on the Rise

China’s economy grew at its slowest pace in a quarter of a century last year, raising expectations of a further devaluation of the yuan to boost its exports—a move that may erode India’s export competitiveness and fuel currency-market volatility.

Separately, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) on Tuesday kept its growth forecast for India unchanged at 7.5% in 2016-17 and lowered its global growth projection in an update to the World Economic Outlook (WEO) released in October, maintaining that China remains a source of uncertainty.

China grew 6.9% in 2015 after fourth-quarter expansion slowed to 6.8%, capping a tumultuous year in which the world’s second-largest economy was hit by capital outflows and a summer stocks crash.

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/8j...orecast-for-India-unchanged-at-75-in-FY1.html

 

[anant_s]

My question is, why can't the Russians just understand the long term benefits? We'd love to retain a strategic ally and friend without keeping hostage

exactly.
World has changed from cold war days when client nations had super powers as their source of weaponry. today more and more countries are getting involved in regional disputes and this need not necessarily have impact on world security. In this scenario countries are open to sale of conventional weaponry to anyone who can pay for them. India is a beneficiary of this changed scenario and Russia is no longer the only option for India. In a highly competitive business of arms, sellers need to be pro active and not live in past.

Another question; why can't we haul in Israel for the AMCA project? They have experience of the Lavi project we have experience of Tejas project. If we could design AMCA design model as well as what we saw in Bangalore air show, then Israel's participation will be superb addition.

Sir, i guess a lot would depend on what engine India selects for AMCA. I guess once basic airframe and power plant is frozen, we must be open to cooperation not only from Israel but also France too.

 

[rcrmj]

Its Shows You Understanding of Economics expected From 50 cent bots
National Debt is or Govt Debt is refers to the difference between government receipts and spending in a single year, that is, the increase of debt over a particular year.
it Money Owed to Taxpayers Fool Its a Public Borrowing Not External
Chinese

Total debt is at 282 percent of GDP, with the rapid pace of credit expansion worrying policy makers.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-08/china-s-very-high-mountain-of-debt

The External debt (or foreign debt) is the total debt a country owes to foreign creditors. The debtors can be the government, corporations or citizens of that country. The debt includes money owed to private commercial banks, other governments, orinternational financial institutions such as the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank.

The External Debt of India is 455 Billion In Comparison to $1.67 trillion oF China


Chinese Bull Shirking For Past 2 years And world Is Witnessing it
Chinese Stocks Fall Sharply, Leading Asian Markets Lower
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/27/business/dealbook/global-stock-markets.html?_r=0
China's external debt hits 10.28 trln yuan
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-07/17/c_134422609.htm
The Great Fall of China
http://www.economist.com/news/leade...one-investors-are-right-be-nervous-great-fall


Whereas India is on the Rise View attachment 290333
China’s economy grew at its slowest pace in a quarter of a century last year, raising expectations of a further devaluation of the yuan to boost its exports—a move that may erode India’s export competitiveness and fuel currency-market volatility.

Separately, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) on Tuesday kept its growth forecast for India unchanged at 7.5% in 2016-17 and lowered its global growth projection in an update to the World Economic Outlook (WEO) released in October, maintaining that China remains a source of uncertainty.

China grew 6.9% in 2015 after fourth-quarter expansion slowed to 6.8%, capping a tumultuous year in which the world’s second-largest economy was hit by capital outflows and a summer stocks crash.

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/8j...orecast-for-India-unchanged-at-75-in-FY1.html

low IQ, simpleton, what-else should I say to you Indian , are you talking about public debt (government borrowing) or external debt plus public? because China is a net creditor alone with Japan, dont know where you getting the idea that we are net debtor``lol, dont tell me its your magic modi's Vedic math, which btw cheated your inflated GDP growth rate``China's public debt is around 40% GDP, but your unproductive and primitive India's public debt is 66% of your tiny GDP``which is over $1000 per capital`

btw, for $100 your incompetent government is spending on military foreign procurement, $40 are coming from borrowing, you get it now kid? thats why India is not what you think it is```in reality it is a debt ridden country with Sub-Sahara level of economical development stage``as simple as that

funny though, you are showing a graph that clearly shows India only 'boom' in the future compared to us```are you really doing this typical lunatic Indian style comparison to convince that India is 'shining' ?

your whole economy is a hoax, without any substance can sustain your primitive economy in a long run```your inflated 2 trillion economy is primary consisted by primitive consumption, and also a big chunk from your foreign institution fund controlled stock market, thats all about it.

so as I said before, Russia does not and will not revolve around a primitive and backward economy, period

 

[illusion8]

Stupidity at its best,why Chinese aviation industry will invest in there own industrial rivals.its not reason Chinese made out from the project

Proper 5th gen plane, chinese 5th gen plane are flying with MiG 1.44 Russians design and engine's with half baked software backend

And let us spare talk about AESA and Sensor fusion which we seen in only Fanboys forums and Photoshop pictures

As for debt Chinese public have to worry over trillions $ debt than us
Now the Chinese economy is falling apart they need it more than us.
NeWS for you
China's Total Debt Load Now Over 280% Of GDP
http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo...l-debt-load-now-over-280-of-gdp/#3b502e3767ab

You aware that you are engaging a suicide troll? hit the ignore button and save yourself from stupid posts..


OT: Russian defense industries are equally participating in all RFI's, it isn't our fault that they come up short, as for the joint development projects - the article clearly mentions the reasons for it that may causing it to fall through.

 

[Tshering22]

exactly.
World has changed from cold war days when client nations had super powers as their source of weaponry. today more and more countries are getting involved in regional disputes and this need not necessarily have impact on world security. In this scenario countries are open to sale of conventional weaponry to anyone who can pay for them. India is a beneficiary of this changed scenario and Russia is no longer the only option for India. In a highly competitive business of arms, sellers need to be pro active and not live in past.

Sir, i guess a lot would depend on what engine India selects for AMCA. I guess once basic airframe and power plant is frozen, we must be open to cooperation not only from Israel but also France too.

Thanks for answering; but there is a specific reason why I mentioned Israel. The idea is to get strategically autonomous from traditional powers.

The option could be Sweden/Switzerland too but those countries are politically western and therefore not genuinely neutral.

Israel on the other hand is an embattled country, faces similar threats like we do and both of us are sympathetic to each other with no conflicts or reasons to fight.

They are technological powerhouse while we have also had strong successes in our indigenous learning.

An Indo-Israeli AMCA (even if we are funding it completely), makes it a perfect combination. It is likely that AMCA may have the next generation of Kaveri (the learning from project never goes). If we can somehow manage the engine technology, it would give both of us strategic autonomy to an extent that we don't have to rely on "big powers" politically too much.

 

[cerberus]

low IQ, simpleton, what-else should I say to you Indian , are you talking about public debt (government borrowing) or external debt plus public? because China is a net creditor alone with Japan, dont know where you getting the idea that we are net debtor``lol, dont tell me its your magic modi's Vedic math, which btw cheated your inflated GDP growth rate``China's public debt is around 40% GDP, but your unproductive and primitive India's public debt is 66% of your tiny GDP``which is over $1000 per capital`

btw, for $100 your incompetent government is spending on military foreign procurement, $40 are coming from borrowing, you get it now kid? thats why India is not what you think it is```in reality it is a debt ridden country with Sub-Sahara level of economical development stage``as simple as that

funny though, you are showing a graph that clearly shows India only 'boom' in the future compared to us```are you really doing this typical lunatic Indian style comparison to convince that India is 'shining' ?

your whole economy is a hoax, without any substance can sustain your primitive economy in a long run```your inflated 2 trillion economy is primary consisted by primitive consumption, and also a big chunk from your foreign institution fund controlled stock market, thats all about it.

so as I said before, Russia does not and will not revolve around a primitive and backward economy, period

Stupidity At Best Govt or Public Debt is Declining Each Year With Rise in GDP 2.3 Trillion in Decade it will Decline Further Whereas Chinese Debt on Rise

India recorded a Government Debt to GDP of 66.10 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2014. Government Debt to GDP in India averaged 73.66 percent from 1991 until 2014, reaching an all time high of 84.30 percent in 2003 and a record low of 65.80 percent in 2013.

India Need Not Care of Public Debt its Purchasing Power is Rising Each year
8.02 Trillion this year with Reforms In this years WB projected to Grow over 7.8 % Rate Ahead of China

Look this Table Chinese Debt Percent is Close over to 200%

n


Debt-to-GDP Ratio

 

[anant_s]

An Indo-Israeli AMCA (even if we are funding it completely), makes it a perfect combination. It is likely that AMCA may have the next generation of Kaveri (the learning from project never goes). If we can somehow manage the engine technology, it would give both of us strategic autonomy to an extent that we don't have to rely on "big powers" politically too much.

If one talks purely from diplomatic point of view, Israel and India are natural partners with similar threats. India has already engaged Israel in several defence areas notable being Radars and SAM.
However when it comes to AMCA, we know that Israel is committed to F35 and with that in mind, would it really want AMCA?
I think a better option would be to engage France with engine and airframe and Israel with Avionics and Radar. Coupled with what we have learnt with LCA project, i think it could be fastest way forward to development. In this manner, the project would almost be immune from any third party intervention.

 

[Raftaar]

Russians dont realise but they r about to loose a big fat cash cow !

 

[dadeechi]

Indian imports from Russia figure for 2015 would be far worse and would be in the range of 25%

 

[damiendehorn]

Thanks for answering; but there is a specific reason why I mentioned Israel. The idea is to get strategically autonomous from traditional powers.

The option could be Sweden/Switzerland too but those countries are politically western and therefore not genuinely neutral.

Israel on the other hand is an embattled country, faces similar threats like we do and both of us are sympathetic to each other with no conflicts or reasons to fight.

They are technological powerhouse while we have also had strong successes in our indigenous learning.

An Indo-Israeli AMCA (even if we are funding it completely), makes it a perfect combination. It is likely that AMCA may have the next generation of Kaveri (the learning from project never goes). If we can somehow manage the engine technology, it would give both of us strategic autonomy to an extent that we don't have to rely on "big powers" politically too much.

The US funds the majority of israeli projects and supplies the bulk of their defence needs. The US will bar any such setup....its not political, its just strategic.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Russia needs to revisit its strategy in India. It is a known fact that India has always had issues with after sale support and bad habit of price escalation midway coupled with delay in delivering.
Historically India was forced to go to Russia and Russia could dictate terms. But now time is changing. Forget for a moment what India cam afford, the fact is that options are increasing for India to shop. This gives a great flexibility of not only of getting better choices but also bargaining and getting good prices.
Russia would need to shed the old business practices as India today is in a Buyers market rather than sellers one.
If it can adapt, old ties between India and Russia will ensure, that it still would have a sizable share of Indian defence market.

well put and your correct, now india can have leverage over russia to an extent, you can go russain and be more stiff on your price, but in the end they will drop russia, when india was reconsidering its role in development in the uac 214 is a good example of this change in the tide for more advance kit

 

[Mirza Jatt]

My question is, why can't the Russians just understand the long term benefits? We'd love to retain a strategic ally and friend without keeping hostage.

Another question; why can't we haul in Israel for the AMCA project? They have experience of the Lavi project we have experience of Tejas project. If we could design AMCA design model as well as what we saw in Bangalore air show, then Israel's participation will be superb addition.

They get a jet with their choice and we get ours; a win-win situation for both.

Lavi was a great project. In fact Israel today is much more advanced and if we go into a JV with them.. we can learn much more. I would infact love to see India working with Israel on a 5th gen fighter than Russia.

 

[rcrmj]

Stupidity At Best Govt or Public Debt is Declining Each Year With Rise in GDP 2.3 Trillion in Decade it will Decline Further Whereas Chinese Debt on Rise

India recorded a Government Debt to GDP of 66.10 percent of the country's Gross Domestic Product in 2014. Government Debt to GDP in India averaged 73.66 percent from 1991 until 2014, reaching an all time high of 84.30 percent in 2003 and a record low of 65.80 percent in 2013.

India Need Not Care of Public Debt its Purchasing Power is Rising Each year
8.02 Trillion this year with Reforms In this years WB projected to Grow over 7.8 % Rate Ahead of China

Look this Table Chinese Debt Percent is Close over to 200%

n


Debt-to-GDP Ratio

you funny kid, why are you keep posting the graphs that shows China's public debt is much lower than primitive India's in percentage wise? and why do you keep insisting about future? you know India is a laughing stock when it comes to 'will' talk, as you lot never fulfill your promises and finish projects on time ever``

the money spent on buying weapons for army are from government budget, not from your $5 per-day 'middle-class' household or your greedy India corporate. I am surprised to see that you still do not understand this simplest fact, I guess common sense is too difficult for you Indian to comprehend?

India is a factor-driven primitive economy, and it can not pull much of its weight at international stage from economy to technology, or from social to politics```so it is beyond a joke to assume by the Indian that Russia's defense industry has to revolve around primitive India.

The fundamental fact is that India can not sustain a week of modern conflict without foreign direct supply of equipment from essentials to the very basics like riffles and ammunition, you are too dependent to Russia... furthermore, your future looks more looming than optimistic, your government or defense sector infested with poor strategy, awful management, and incompetency``