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How Kashmir was stolen from Pakistan by Mountbatten

are you for real? ive spent much time over there when i was either on home leave or had time off and let me tell you that the people there are almost more pro-Pakistan than any others. I have some ancestral origins from maternal side hailing from Kashmir and im in regular touch with close friends on the 'other side'
Every body says the same thing over and over again, does not make it true.. and since you decided to put up some relations on the 'other side' we have some who are sick of your rule in the P.o.K too

it's true that across the LoC opinions are mixed but by and large there's a consensus that india is an illegitimate occupier and this is an indisputable fact. You can deny, whitewash, or even sandblast and powdercoat it -- but it wont change ground realities

ive already been through this in great detail sooo many times so i wont delve further

truth hurts though

By and large in Kashmir there is a feeling that Pakistan has been pushing terrorist (Wanting them to blow up something or the other) in their state and giving reason for India to maintain a iron grip...

Its so damn easy to play a game two ways.. and yeah truth hurts, which is that you guys are still crying after 65 years
 
^^Copy - paste from your text book? It seems so.

No. See that all the references are Indian. You can abuse your own and discredit them and their references. You guys do it all the time. Nothing new.
 
are you for real? ive spent much time over there when i was either on home leave or had time off and let me tell you that the people there are almost more pro-Pakistan than any others. I have some ancestral origins from maternal side hailing from Kashmir and im in regular touch with close friends on the 'other side'

it's true that across the LoC opinions are mixed but by and large there's a consensus that india is an illegitimate occupier and this is an indisputable fact. You can deny, whitewash, or even sandblast and powdercoat it -- but it wont change ground realities

ive already been through this in great detail sooo many times so i wont delve further

truth hurts though

Tell me, how likely is it that you would know or be familiar with the opinions of contrary-minded people, or that knowing such opinions, you would articulate them in this forum? Do we really have to put to the test the normal respect and belief in others that we bear as a default?

My understanding of what is current is not exactly based on wishful thinking. Surely by now, i have given you and others sufficient evidence that when I make a statement, it is a weighed and thought out statement? Be sure that I am in touch with a very large number of people from the Vale itself, including activists who even this morning have received the tender enquiries of anonymous caller concerned about their unfashionable views.
 
We don't believe in Nehru. If you believe in Him, please go and ask him. We have changed our policy in last 50 years.


@ Plebiscite: Why don't you read terms and conditions of plebiscite. First full fill those conditions then talk bout plebiscite .

Hey @Black Widow

Are you still in mourning for Kashmir being in same state even after 1947 or is it that you are still a widow.

You guys abuse Nehru for being for one thing and Gandhi for another thing and other leaders for many other things. There is nothing new in it.

When you don't even show grace for those who helped and fought for creation of India, your own country, I got nothing more to tell you.
 
I think its a shame we have not yet re-taken the Gilgit and Baltistan areas.

Would be really cool to ride my bike in those mountains.

The Srinagar Sonmarg Leh road has become too commercialized and done to death now.

The Kashmiris by and large eager to earn during the summer months when the bikers flock in.

Poor guys. Useless selfish self-styled leaders.
 
No. See that all the references are Indian. You can abuse your own and discredit them and their references. You guys do it all the time. Nothing new.

Just plain facts, nothing else. Nothing new too.
 
Hey @Black Widow

Are you still in mourning for Kashmir being in same state even after 1947 or is it that you are still a widow.

You guys abuse Nehru for being for one thing and Gandhi for another thing and other leaders for many other things. There is nothing new in it.

When you don't even show grace for those who helped and fought for creation of India, your own country, I got nothing more to tell you.

Dude, India is a country not under a dictator.. decisions are seldom taken alone..

Kashmir was the result of some more too, one important guy named VP Menon

We are not blind that we do not point out the mistakes done by some whether they be our leaders, its not to discredit them but to make sure those mistakes are not repeated.

I know that concept is difficult for you to understand, but then that is how things stand.
 
Hey @Black Widow

Are you still in mourning for Kashmir being in same state even after 1947 or is it that you are still a widow.

You guys abuse Nehru for being for one thing and Gandhi for another thing and other leaders for many other things. There is nothing new in it.

When you don't even show grace for those who helped and fought for creation of India, your own country, I got nothing more to tell you.


Cut the crap dude, and answer the big claim u made in older posts.... Its funny, when u are out of answer, you divert the topic.. Prove your big claim here..

I know whom to show grace. Pakistani should show some grace for Nehru and Gandhi, our grace is for Subhash , sardar and others...
 
My understanding of what is current is not exactly based on wishful thinking. Surely by now, i have given you and others sufficient evidence that when I make a statement, it is a weighed and thought out statement? Be sure that I am in touch with a very large number of people from the Vale itself, including activists who even this morning have received the tender enquiries of anonymous caller concerned about their unfashionable views.

Does not matter. You must be wrong since their reality states otherwise. It is a reality where their soldiers are on Siachen, just about to capture Kashmir, India is just about to disintegrate, where they won all the wars they fought, where they can do without American money and are ready to give them a military thrashing like you wouldn't believe, where their standing in the world is, well out of this world...etc. You live in a plane where all these claims seem fantastic, they live in a plane where that is their reality. You simply can't convince them otherwise.
 
Tell me, how likely is it that you would know or be familiar with the opinions of contrary-minded people, or that knowing such opinions, you would articulate them in this forum? Do we really have to put to the test the normal respect and belief in others that we bear as a default?

My understanding of what is current is not exactly based on wishful thinking. Surely by now, i have given you and others sufficient evidence that when I make a statement, it is a weighed and thought out statement? Be sure that I am in touch with a very large number of people from the Vale itself, including activists who even this morning have received the tender enquiries of anonymous caller concerned about their unfashionable views.

@Joe Shearer

Increase and decrease of the pain threshold on a set of people does affect. But can continuous infliction and application of pain on a same set of people for over tens of years, kill their desires. I don't think so. What it does is that they become tolerant to more pain and a stage comes where even increased application of pain may not matter. The result is even more popular and more vicious response.

Cut the crap dude, and answer the big claim u made in older posts.... Its funny, when u are out of answer, you divert the topic.. Prove your big claim here..

I know whom to show grace. Pakistani should show some grace for Nehru and Gandhi, our grace is for Subhash , sardar and others...

What Subash's, Sardar's and others couldn't achieve then - what can they achieve now. You are welcome to bring them back. And, their reincarnation may also not be in the same form!
 
If one looks at Nehru’s speech in the Lok Sabha on June 26, 1952, he said, “It just does not matter what your Constitution says. If the people of Kashmir do not want it, it will not go there.” If the plebiscite went against India, he would accept the verdict “and we would change our Constitution about it”. This he tells his people in the Lok Sabha.

However, the two faces of India were revealed in Nehru’s Note of August 25, 1952. He made a startling revelation about his change of mind by the end of 1948.

He wrote in a Note (Selected Works of Jawaharlal Nehru; volume 19, pages 322-330), “Towards the end of 1948…. it became clear to me then that we would never get the conditions which were necessary for a plebiscite… so I ruled out the plebiscite for all practical purposes.”

He was lying to his own people, he was lying to the Kashmiris and at the same time he was also lying to the United Nations as well as the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan (UNCIP) in December 1948.

The Note, Nehru wrote as some may call, was realpolitik. In that Note, he also mentioned that, Kashmiris “are not what are called a virile people. They are soft and addicted to easy living”; “We are superior to Pakistan in military and industrial power”; the U.N. is impotent. “Doubts in the minds of leaders percolate to their followers and to the people generally… What is required is a firm and clear outlook, and no debate about basic issues.”

Lieutenant-General B.M. Kaul in his book The Untold Story (1967), states that, Sheikh Abdullah understood the games being played by Nehru and India and was so disgusted that he decided to declare independence of Kashmir from India in 1949. He says, Bakshi and Dhar knew well in advance that Sheikh Saheb was going there “in a few days’ time to meet certain ‘friends’ from across the border which was only seven miles away”. He would then arrest Bakshi, Dhar etc and declare Kashmir independent (page 143). Though many Indians do not agree with his version of events. But it makes one thing very very clear, the Indian double face became quite apparent even to Sheikh Abdullah.

What Nehru then and India even now does not realize that it is the people who move and transform their leaders’ opinion and not the other way around. Sheikh Abdullah couldn’t go against the will of Kashmirirs. Sheikh Abduallah remained a leader of Kashmiris as long as he voiced their feelings. Nehru expected that Sheikh Abdullah would be able to change the opinion of Kashmiri people, which he couldn’t.

Sheikh Abdullah turned a Becket to Jawaharlal Nehru’s Henry II. He was thus arrested and put in jail for next 11 years.

In Nehru efforts to cheat the whole world, least did he realize that he was wrong and left a legacy, where we still stand at that moment in 1947, where Kashmir still remains unsolved even after 60 years of Indian efforts to retain it, even after the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people and to what end!

The same kind of policy followed by Indians elsewhere in India and resultantly, North East India is also in flames, the Naxals have risen against their own government, the Dalits are still untouchables except a few who have become a bit powerful and minorities are killed with impunity to tell them as to who rules India – the majority Hindus. How many more will the Hindu rulers of India kill to keep India together as a so-called multi-ethnic/religious Union.

The Muslims were and are being killed to avenge the creation of Pakistan and the Sikhs were paid in kind for willfully joining India (their holiest shrine was destroyed. Over 3000 were killed in Delhi alone in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi’s murder). People of North East are being persecuted, oppressed and killed for seeking freedom. Muslims of North India are being killed after being wrongfully declared as being illegal Bangladeshi immigrants.

How long this continued oppression and killing will keep India together?

The last part of the post is random farce which you repeat time and again,so am not getting there.

Regarding Nehru.he was the first PM and we dont have to agree with his views.

We are keeping Kashmir simple as that.
 
Just plain facts, nothing else. Nothing new too.

Thank you. That is what I wanted to highlight - Just Plain Facts.

The last part of the post is random farce which you repeat time and again,so am not getting there.

Regarding Nehru.he was the first PM and we dont have to agree with his views.

We are keeping Kashmir simple as that.

You guys don't agree with your leaders and abuse them.

You guys do not agree to the facts and trash them.

When the reality would squarely face you, hide your face in the sand and call yourself Ostrich.
 
@Joe Shearer

Increase and decrease of the pain threshold on a set of people does affect. But can continuous infliction and application of pain on a same set of people for over tens of years, kill their desires. I don't think so. What it does is that they become tolerant to more pain and a stage comes where even increased application of pain may not matter. The result is even more popular and more vicious response.



What Subash's, Sardar's and others couldn't achieve then - what can they achieve now. You are welcome to bring them back. And, their reincarnation may also not be in the same form!

What did Sardar & Subash not achieve?
 

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