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How Kashmir was stolen from Pakistan by Mountbatten

Yu tell me which one is not ...and yu dint tell me why yu guys cant make an army of kashmiries to defend their land against cruel intruders from pakistan who disrupts their otherwise peaceful and lovely life???why yu need 800000 of indian troops their to suppress whom when locals are in love with yu ???????????????????????

Read Aatish-e-Chinar by Sheikh Mohammed Abdullah, and My Life and Times, by Syed Mir Qasim, for the 1948 killings and the resistance by ordinary Kashmiris. also the Encyclopaedia Britannica.

It gets better.

Major General Mahmud Ali Durrani talked about the incidents of 1965.

Which of these four was a Hindu?

Incidentally, your figure of 800,000 is poppycock.





Yu aint answering my question abt arming kashmiries agaisnt Pak and Im cooler than yr wildest imaginations its just I cant take crap for reality yu admit it and say might is right we have boots there so thats our and i can understand that and it makes sense but all else is crap and utterly illogical...If yu have some do elighten me I have a open heart to accept go ahead...

It's been answered already. Why should we keep repeating the same thing over and over again because you are too lazy?

Thats yr accusation we wanted it then we want it now...yu dint want it then and yu dont want it now as well because you are afraid...otherwise go ahead lets get done with it...yu still isnt answering my question mr logical why not arm kashmiries against pak intruders????????????

You didn't answer the question; why didn't you comply with the UN Resolution? It's a fact, and you are just afraid of admitting it.

Your question about arming Kashmiris has also been answered, just a few posts ago. Why don't you read?
 
@joe
i checked dint find in which post yu replied regrading arming kashmiries tell me post no then we can continue..

the book aatish chinar yu mentioned was published after his death in unknown circumstances and therefore hold no solid grounds ..

But the question remains if kashmiries love india so much why cant they be armed to gurad themselves against pak intruders I ll wait for you or any indian to give some logical reply on that...It seems all of yu net warriors have run away lacking logic...:pakistan:
 
@joe
i checked dint find in which post yu replied regrading arming kashmiries tell me post no then we can continue..

the book aatish chinar yu mentioned was published after his death in unknown circumstances and therefore hold no solid grounds ..

But the question remains if kashmiries love india so much why cant they be armed to gurad themselves against pak intruders I ll wait for you or any indian to give some logical reply on that...It seems all of yu net warriors have run away lacking logic...:pakistan:

No bro we are doing 60 year Hukumat in Kashmir. wait 940 years please before asking Kashmir back. Thanks!
 
Azad kashmir is completely autonomous and is a step ahead all other provinces in the sense that they have their own president and primeminister ...We are willing at any given day to hold a referendum there and ask them whomsoever they wanna join or even if they wanna be independent..

Just do it. Hold a referendum first in Gilgit-Baltistan and then in "Azad" Kashmir. Let them be free, you don't have to wait for India.
 
@joe

I read that and found nothing convincing or something that addresses the miseries of kashmiries..

Life for Kashmiris in the Jihadi training camps is indeed miserable, and that is why so many of them are trying to get back to India with their wives and kids.
 
@joe
i checked dint find in which post yu replied regrading arming kashmiries tell me post no then we can continue..

the book aatish chinar yu mentioned was published after his death in unknown circumstances and therefore hold no solid grounds ..

But the question remains if kashmiries love india so much why cant they be armed to gurad themselves against pak intruders I ll wait for you or any indian to give some logical reply on that...It seems all of yu net warriors have run away lacking logic...:pakistan:

First, you started with a fundamental error: British India was NOT divided on communal lines. Are you aware about the basis for the creation of Pakistan from India?

Second, for all your bellicosity today, it was the Muslim League which fought tooth and nail for partition. The Congress tried to avert it. If you feel so confident about ruling the sub-continent, why did the Muslim League leave behind almost an equal number of Muslims and go away to Pakistan?

Third, you did not know about the different arrangements for the main colony, and for the principalities. Do you now know the reasons, or are you still ignorant?

Fourth, there was an active political party in the Vale. They favored the Congress, and the Muslim League only had the support of people whom Jinnah himself despised. Are you aware that this party, the representative of the people of Kashmir, opposed Pakistan or accession to Pakistan?

Fifth, you have cast doubts on Sheikh Abdullah's memoirs on the subject of the killings by the tribal invaders. The other two documents are clear enough. Are you satisfied, or do you need more evidence?

Sixth, you are unaware of the infiltration by commandos for creating trouble in 1965. From your dead silence on the subject, you have probably found out the truth. Have you read the Pakistani general's interview? Or Asghar Khan?

Seventh, you talked about 800,000 soldiers in Kashmir. Slightly more than 60 posts lie between this one and the breakdown of manpower. With that clue, you get your answers.

Eighth, you talked about holding a referendum, but had no idea about the UN's conditions for holding it, although you had been told where to find it. Why did Pakistan not comply with the UN's terms and allow the referendum to be held then?

Ninth, you said that the defence of Kashmir should have been left to armed Kashmiris. Do you know any country with a standing Army, which prefers armed civilians to act in their place? Are you aware that there is a large number of local units formed from among the local population engaged in defending Kashmir? If you follow up point seven, you will get this answer also.
 
Just do it. Hold a referendum first in Gilgit-Baltistan and then in "Azad" Kashmir. Let them be free, you don't have to wait for India.

Gilgitis would 200% join Pakistan as they have been holding rallies to be a part of Pak constitutionally as for kashmiris we have alot of them on PDF who love to hate india.


Yeah bro. So please dont ask for Kashmir now. We promise to give it to you in 940 years.

I aint ur bro bharti... as for 940... are you willing to get ur soldiers killed for even 60 more years? heck poor souls are committing suicide in doves already... and taking their superior officers along with them...
 
Nice description of the 1948 Pakistani invasion by Pakistani author Tariq Ali -

Tariq Ali · Bitter Chill of Winter: Kashmir · LRB 19 April 2001

Jinnah decided to authorise a military operation in defiance of the British High Command. Pakistan would advance into Kashmir and seize Srinagar. Jinnah nominated a younger colleague from the Punjab, Sardar Shaukat Hyat Khan, to take charge of the operation.

Shaukat had served as a captain during the war and spent several months in an Italian POW camp. On his return he had resigned his commission and joined the Muslim League. He was one of its more popular leaders in the Punjab, devoted to Jinnah, extremely hostile to Liaquat, whom he regarded as an arriviste, and keen to earn the title of ‘Lion of the Punjab’ that was occasionally chanted in his honour at public meetings. An effete and vainglorious figure, easily swayed by flattery, Shaukat was a chocolate-cream soldier. It was the unexpected death of his father, the elected Prime Minister of the old Punjab, that had brought him to prominence. He was not one of those people who rise above their own shortcomings in a crisis. I knew him well: he was my uncle. To his credit, however, he argued against the use of irregulars and wanted the operation to be restricted to retired or serving military personnel. He was overruled by the Prime Minister, who insisted that his loud-mouthed protégé, Khurshid Anwar, take part in the operation. Anwar, against all military advice, enlisted Pathan tribesman in the cause of jihad. Two extremely able brigadiers, Akbar Khan and Sher Khan from the 6/13th Frontier Force Regiment (‘Piffers’ to old India hands), were selected to lead the assault.

The invasion was fixed for 9 September 1947, but it had to be delayed for two weeks: Khurshid Anwar had chosen the same day to get married and wanted to go on a brief honeymoon. In the meantime, thanks to Anwar’s lack of discretion, a senior Pakistani officer, Brigadier Iftikhar, heard what was going on and passed the news to General Messervy, the C-in-C of the Pakistan Army. He immediately informed Auchinleck, who passed the information to Mountbatten, who passed it to the new Indian Government. Using the planned invasion as a pretext, the Congress sent Nehru’s deputy, Sardar Patel, to pressure the Maharaja into acceding to India, while Mountbatten ordered Indian Army units to prepare for an emergency airlift to Srinagar.

Back in Rawalpindi, Anwar had returned from his honeymoon and the invasion began. The key objective was to take Srinagar, occupy the airport and secure it against the Indians. Within a week the Maharaja’s army had collapsed. Hari Singh fled to his palace in Jammu. The 11th Sikh Regiment of the Indian Army had by now reached Srinagar, but was desperately waiting for reinforcements and didn’t enter the town. The Pathan tribesman under Khurshid Anwar’s command halted after reaching Baramulla, only an hour’s bus ride from Srinagar, and refused to go any further. Here they embarked on a three-day binge, looting houses, assaulting Muslims and Hindus alike, raping men and women and stealing money from the Kashmir Treasury. The local cinema was transformed into a rape centre; a group of Pathans invaded St Joseph’s Convent, where they raped and killed four nuns, including the Mother Superior, and shot dead a European couple sheltering there. News of the atrocities spread, turning large numbers of Kashmiris against their would-be liberators. When they finally reached Srinagar, the Pathans were so intent on pillaging the shops and bazaars that they overlooked the airport, already occupied by the Sikhs.
 
Gilgitis would 200% join Pakistan as they have been holding rallies to be a part of Pak constitutionally as for kashmiris we have alot of them on PDF who love to hate india.

I aint ur bro bharti... as for 940... are you willing to get ur soldiers killed for even 60 more years? heck poor souls are committing suicide in doves already... and taking their superior officers along with them...

I am used to stupidity, but this takes the cake.

The Gilgitis have had no constitutional representation for nearly fifty years. Their agitation, as I had pointed out already, and as you unwittingly let slip, was for such reprewsentation. Not for love of Pakistan.

So far, you have lost in five armed conflicts. How many times before it sinks home that you are not going anywhere in military terms?

Nice description of the 1948 Pakistani invasion by Pakistani author Tariq Ali -

Tariq Ali · Bitter Chill of Winter: Kashmir · LRB 19 April 2001

Jinnah decided to authorise a military operation in defiance of the British High Command. Pakistan would advance into Kashmir and seize Srinagar. Jinnah nominated a younger colleague from the Punjab, Sardar Shaukat Hyat Khan, to take charge of the operation.

Shaukat had served as a captain during the war and spent several months in an Italian POW camp. On his return he had resigned his commission and joined the Muslim League. He was one of its more popular leaders in the Punjab, devoted to Jinnah, extremely hostile to Liaquat, whom he regarded as an arriviste, and keen to earn the title of ‘Lion of the Punjab’ that was occasionally chanted in his honour at public meetings. An effete and vainglorious figure, easily swayed by flattery, Shaukat was a chocolate-cream soldier. It was the unexpected death of his father, the elected Prime Minister of the old Punjab, that had brought him to prominence. He was not one of those people who rise above their own shortcomings in a crisis. I knew him well: he was my uncle. To his credit, however, he argued against the use of irregulars and wanted the operation to be restricted to retired or serving military personnel. He was overruled by the Prime Minister, who insisted that his loud-mouthed protégé, Khurshid Anwar, take part in the operation. Anwar, against all military advice, enlisted Pathan tribesman in the cause of jihad. Two extremely able brigadiers, Akbar Khan and Sher Khan from the 6/13th Frontier Force Regiment (‘Piffers’ to old India hands), were selected to lead the assault.

The invasion was fixed for 9 September 1947, but it had to be delayed for two weeks: Khurshid Anwar had chosen the same day to get married and wanted to go on a brief honeymoon. In the meantime, thanks to Anwar’s lack of discretion, a senior Pakistani officer, Brigadier Iftikhar, heard what was going on and passed the news to General Messervy, the C-in-C of the Pakistan Army. He immediately informed Auchinleck, who passed the information to Mountbatten, who passed it to the new Indian Government. Using the planned invasion as a pretext, the Congress sent Nehru’s deputy, Sardar Patel, to pressure the Maharaja into acceding to India, while Mountbatten ordered Indian Army units to prepare for an emergency airlift to Srinagar.

Back in Rawalpindi, Anwar had returned from his honeymoon and the invasion began. The key objective was to take Srinagar, occupy the airport and secure it against the Indians. Within a week the Maharaja’s army had collapsed. Hari Singh fled to his palace in Jammu. The 11th Sikh Regiment of the Indian Army had by now reached Srinagar, but was desperately waiting for reinforcements and didn’t enter the town. The Pathan tribesman under Khurshid Anwar’s command halted after reaching Baramulla, only an hour’s bus ride from Srinagar, and refused to go any further. Here they embarked on a three-day binge, looting houses, assaulting Muslims and Hindus alike, raping men and women and stealing money from the Kashmir Treasury. The local cinema was transformed into a rape centre; a group of Pathans invaded St Joseph’s Convent, where they raped and killed four nuns, including the Mother Superior, and shot dead a European couple sheltering there. News of the atrocities spread, turning large numbers of Kashmiris against their would-be liberators. When they finally reached Srinagar, the Pathans were so intent on pillaging the shops and bazaars that they overlooked the airport, already occupied by the Sikhs.

An excellent excerpt: I had forgotten about it.

I wonder if our smart alec Pakistani friends realize who Tariq Ali refers to, as Brigadier Iftikhar. It is an amusing side-light.
 
Tell us. Is it a pseudonym?

This was the best officer in the Pakistani Army, being groomed to take over as C-in-C, the first Pakistani who would have got the position. He died in an air crash on the way to a training assignment in the UK, his replacement refused the job, and an officer who had been sent back from the front and was sidelined became the first Chief instead.

Amusing because we keep hearing complaints that it was a British conspiracy that kept the Pakistani Army on the sidelines. As we just read, the decision to use irregulars was a political decision, and the regular Army did not think much of the idea.

An afterthought: fanboys lack a sense of irony.

Hari Singh's original plan was to keep Kashmir independent. Sheikh Abdullah was inclined to goalong with him, and create a secular kingdom, on the lines of what the Congress was seeking to achieve for the rest of India. If he had not been attacked by the adventurers led by Anwar, Kashmir would have been independent today. Instead, the tribals invaded, the Kashmiris fought back, with the predictable outcome, and the Maharaja was forced to call in the Indian Army to protect Kashmir from rape. The price was accession to India.

Pakistanis today, those at the liberal edge of the spectrum, call for the right of Kashmiris to seek independence. Ironically, it was Pakistan that wrecked this dream.
 
let's be precise

1) Kashmir was either to be annexed with Pakistan, or remain Independent. No Indian Involvement.
2) If annexed to Pakistan, the same Instrument of Accession would be signed by the Maharaja.
3) Maharaja wanted an Independent Kashmir, so Sheikh Abdullah, again No Indian Involvement.
4) Pakistan was not in favor of Independent Kashmir, haste o haste, they sent the armed tribes.
5) Seeing the danger of mass murder and rape in Kashmir, Maharaja makes a call to Indian forces.
6) India asks Maharaja, either let Kashmiris get killed by Pakistanis or Join India.
7) Maharaja saves thousands of Kashmiris from Pakistanis and signed Instrument of Accession.

Game Over for Pakistan!
 
all should be decided in next battle btw India and Pakistan this time both got nukes so mass extension of India and Pakistan Kashmir can decide then
 

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