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How government plans to use IAF to wage a war on its people

And FYI the naxalites don't believe in democracy, they want to impose a one party rule in India, what's your say on that?

a society driven by the party system, whether single-party or multiple, is a society that has not advanced and is not true democracy.

i preach about the party-less direct-democracy socialism-guided system that is the "third universal theory" ( jamahiriya ).

direct-democracy is true democracy, which also the "aam aadmi party" propagates through their "swaraj" program, and i am sure the naxals will come to the negotiation table once they are assured that their decades-old struggle ( socialist in their mind ) will have a sympathetic hearing in the public political scene in india.

the naxal ideologues and other leaders, by being within the orbit of socialism, automatically i am sure will accept democracy but we must be clear that democracy is what i wrote above.

And what do you think, how should one deal with people who have denounced Indian constitution and are engaged in an arm conflict?

we cannot use the word "constitution" to bash the heads of those people who suggest alternatives to india's wrong political/economic/social system.

even what "aam aadmi party" proposes through "swaraj" is a radical change.

if the system is wrong it should be replaced with a progressive system.

The local police and CRPF are their to control the law and order situation. Even the strength of Delhi police is around 85000. You want no local police to be stationed there?

the figure, 80,000 crpf dedicated to anti-naxal operations, i got from a "india today" article from early/mid 2014.

And regarding right wing govt being the reason for naxalism? How to you describe presence of naxalism in the state of West Bengal. And naxalism grew in India during the 70s when Indira Gandhi transformed India into a socialist\communist state.

as a socialist myself, i can safely say that india's establishment was never socialist but extremely capitalist and oriented towards western bloc... from participating in nato's war against socialist north korea ( 1950-53 ) to almost participation in usa/british invasion of socialist iraq in 2003 to hidden and open participation in nato's war against socialist libya and syria, indian establishment has done it all.

this is my thread from two months ago ( rajiv gandhi saw pakistan as buffer against ussr ).

as for your mention of indira gandhi, below is a screenshot of my post from many months ago...

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can anyone in the world say that this change of words in the indian constitution actually led to india becoming socialist??

My friend, it depends on who or what you define as progressive.

at its simplest in context of india, progressive means anyone who rejects the reactionary, anti-human nature of much of india's traditional customs and social life and the extreme capitalism of its modern face that is just the amplification of the traditional capitalism here.

in rejecting, the progressive may either actively present alternative political system based on hardcore socialism or actively present socialistic theory from within newer movements like aap or just create space for dissent and questioning of the current 68-year-old obsolete and wrong system.

My batchmate's mother works with adivasis in Jharkhand. And she has never faced any problems with either the advasis or the naxals.

and that reminds me of what right-wing or establishment propaganda talks about "naxal menace" as if naxals are malaria mosquitoes... they are not... they are only trying to present a progressive model of society and they must be induced to come to the negotiation table, and i described how in the beginning of this post.
 
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This article is written by a Maoist/Naxal sympathizer.

I would say, this is indeed a good initiative by NDA govt, these Naxal crooks with their ideologies and aam admi soshan have created lot of problems, no development too in those areas. Time to kick them out.

If NDA manages to purge this to some extent, it will earn a lot of good will in Naxal affected areas and will have positive impact in state elections and 2019 LS elections too.

Jai Namo.
 
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I would say, this is indeed a good initiative by NDA govt, these Naxal crooks with their ideologies and aam admi soshan have created lot of problems, no development too in those areas. Time to kick them out.

so without the naxals, this is how the rest of india has "devleoped"...

India is Suicide Capital: World Health Organisation (WHO)

Why Bangalore is India's suicide capital

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from ( Google Groups )...
More Details on Suicide

Victim 1 - Girl


This girl was from Patna . Though a rank holder from Patna University , she somehow couldn't make a mark at Infy. She failed for 3 major tests consecutively which led her to ending her life by hanging from the room ceiling fan.

Victim 2 - Guy


This North Indian guy was actually one of the better trainees in the lot. But the failure at a major test threatened his Infy career seriously. On closer look he realised that some of his answer sheets were not properly marked by the person in charge. He noticed that he was missing nearly 20 marks due to the carelessness of the staff who corrected his paper. He took this issue to the higher authorities. They confirmed there was indeed a miscalculation, but they were firm on the stand that they cannot correct the mark sheet as that would bring a bad name to the Mysore campus. Disappointed by this verdict, the guy took poison.

Victim 3 - Girl (attempted suicide)


Again a case of failure in multiple tests, she could not accept the fact that she might have to return home unemployed. That made her cut the vein, but seeing blood she got terrified and called for help. Now admitted at hospital and has survived the situation.


from ( Peepli Live is not about farmers - NDTV Movies )...
According to a report, 200,000 farmers have ended their lives since 1997 and it is said the rise in indebtedness is the root cause of farmer suicides.


40% rise in farmer suicides in Maharashtra

grow some empathy.
 
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Farmers suicide is a collective failure of all governments till date. They could not formulate good policy to support or help them.

Infosys suicide, i cannot comment.

But still that does not justify why Naxals are required. If Naxals would have been that good, why they do not let any infrastructure happen in their areas.... no road, no infra, no voting, no school, kill people calling them spies and other, blackmail, kidnapping, raping poor women and girls, illegal arms trade, and no development.

Everyone has different perceptions of developments. All Indians and all Indian geological areas deserve to have same progress in terms of people and infrastructure.

Perhaps you can write down 10 good things which Naxals have given to India.
 
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i preach about the party-less direct-democracy socialism-guided system that is the "third universal theory" ( jamahiriya ).

direct-democracy is true democracy, which also the "aam aadmi party" propagates through their "swaraj" program, and i am sure the naxals will come to the negotiation table once they are assured that their decades-old struggle ( socialist in their mind ) will have a sympathetic hearing in the public political scene in india.

Sounds very cute, but answere this. Suppose the govt gets a tip off of a major terrorist hiding in a hostile neighbouring country (don't equate this with India, its a general question) and the govt needs to strike quickly and stealthily, will it form village and town committees to decide? Or if the govt wants to change the monetary policy to check inflation and increase growth, or cannot decide what the fiscal defecit should be, or have to decide on the recommendations of pay commissions, will it go to the village panchayats.

I can go on and on with such examples. You you even understand what it would mean to take the concesses view of 1.2 billion people for every fucking issue!!!??? And then who will implement those decisions of the public, how will they be selected?


we cannot use the word "constitution" to bash the heads of those people who suggest alternatives to india's wrong political/economic/social system.

even what "aam aadmi party" proposes through "swaraj" is a radical change.

if the system is wrong it should be replaced with a progressive system.

Of course, if the system or constitution is wrong it should be changed. The naxals should get elected as the AAP has done and then try to change it. If they take up arms against the state, their arms have to be chopped off.


the figure, 80,000 crpf dedicated to anti-naxal operations, i got from a "india today" article from early/mid 2014.

For maintaining law and order. Every sovereign country does that.

as a socialist myself, i can safely say that india's establishment was never socialist but extremely capitalist and oriented towards western bloc... from participating in nato's war against socialist north korea ( 1950-53 ) to almost participation in usa/british invasion of socialist iraq in 2003 to hidden and open participation in nato's war against socialist libya and syria, indian establishment has done it all.

What do you mean by almost participated?? In 2003, when the request was made it was instantly rejected. And Btw are you talking about India's foreign affairs or internal affairs?

Communist USSR was not in good terms with communist China. Communist China is on a fight mode with socialist Japan and Vietnam. So all this are bullshit.

And regarding India being socialist or not, please go and read about nationalisation and the license raj and the quota Raj. There is a reason why the budget of 1991/1992 is hailed by everyone.

And you call Libya and Syria socialist?? Where are single person have held power for decades!
 
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Farmers suicide is a collective failure of all governments till date. They could not formulate good policy to support or help them.

you are correct of course, and the "green revolution" ( the wrong one, i should add ) set up in india by usa government basically built upon the unscientific nature of the indian system.

indian government should have worked with the socialist bloc to arrive upon a scientific agriculture system which used collectivization ( multiple farmer families/individuals managing a single land ), neighborhood-level farming in cities ( urban farming ), mechanization and non-harming chemicals to create a situation of easy surplus of food crop which neither caused cancers for the farmer ( like it is happening in punjab ) nor caused other medical troubles for the consumer nor caused poisoning of the ecology nor caused economic misery for the farmer.

this is what venezuela is doing presently...

Urban Agriculture: trying new things in Venezuela | eatcology.comeatcology

polis: Urban Agriculture in Caracas

as for farmer suicides in india, i copy below my own post from july...

"it should, for below is how any citizen ( and by consequence, farmers ) in libyan jamahiriya lived...

1. any person interested in engaging in farming was given free land by the system, along with seeds, tools needed and housing, for free.

2. electricity and water was free ( that too in a largely desert country ), and libya had history's largest irrigation system, "the great man-made river" project ( gmrr ).

3. housing for any citizen was to be lived rent-free until the resident wished... rent was considered a compromise on the freedom of the citizen and therefore anti-human.

4. medical system was free, and if treatment was available outside, the costs would be borne by the system.

5. education system was free, and if that course was available outside, the costs would be borne by the system.

6. education was of one's choice and could not be forced by parents or circumstance.

7. food was at low cost.

8. any person interested in establishing a business was given a start-up amount of 20,000 dollars, interest-free.

9. all loans were interest-free.

10. no private banks operated in libya.

11. for a person not in employment, he or she was given the average salary ( stipend ) for the person's choice of field of employment... in fact, this was a coming-down in later years from the early days of the al-fatah revolution... in 1979, a unemployed person was given 7000 dollars per month !!

12. libyan jamahiriya being socialist, all wasteful traditions were frowned upon, like 600-guest four-day weddings like what happens in south asia.

13. at weddings, the bride and groom were together given 50,000 dollars to help them set up a new home etc.

14. car purchase was subsidized by the system.

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so tell me, why would any farmer suicide in libyan jamahiriya, when his material needs had been taken care by the system, leaving him spiritually at ease??"


If Naxals would have been that good, why they do not let any infrastructure happen in their areas.... no road, no infra

like i hinted before, all this "infrastructure" in the vast non-naxal areas has not helped indians lead a largely happy life, so we must question on the indian establishment/middle-class notion of infrastructure.

do we really want a hundred more useless companies like tcs and the roads, flyovers and traffic that become the first effect or secondary effect of the construction of such companies??

no voting

western-style elections and multi-party "representative democracy" is fake-democracy.

true democracy is when the enlightened ideas and decisions made in a neighborhood are discussed and applied in the top level of the political system and that happens only via direct-democracy, whether through aap's "swaraj" or whether in a more scientific manner via the libyan-invented system of jamahiriya... at least 500 of my posts speak of this... maybe more.

as for voting, it is the necessary part of democracy but must be like this...

snapshot1.png



as to the precise arrangement of direct-democracy under "jamahiriya", from my own post here ( India to be home to 4.37 lakh millionaires by 2018: Study | Page 3 )...
jamahiriya, deriving from the "green book", is a simple system.

the idea is to get every citizen to participate in the political running of society and have the whole system as decentralized semi-independent communes.

each neighborhood in a city calls its residents to a ground or hall and elects a secretariat... this is done with each resident participating and voicing opinion... the secretariat will then be responsible for maintainence of the neighborhood ( security, lighting etc ), for getting and discussing local needs with the city administration, for discussing local and societal issues with local residents and delivering opinions and decisions of local residents to city administration or higher... the local residents confer in a truly democratic manner, with disregard for age, gender, profession or other attributes... this gathering at neighborhood-level becomes called "basic people's congress".

if a city has ten neighborhoods, there will then be ten "basic people's congress" ( bpc ) gatherings with their own secretariats.

the secretariats of each bpc will gather to discuss local and city issues at city level... each secretariat will be delivering the opinions of their bpc's and the needs of their bpc's and how city resources can be allocated to each bpc in a clean manner... and to help make discussions smoother and to help get resources from higher level and to deliver the city's opinions to higher level, the gathered bpc secretariats will elect a secretariat for the city, and this secretariat can be from among them or from some neighborhood or any other person who is deemed suitable... the city-level gathering will become called "municipal people's congress" ( mpc ).

for easier administration of a larger society, some cities can be gathered together into a region and the city secretariats will gather in "regional people's congress" ( rpc )... this can avoided for a small-population society.

either the mpc or the rpc, the relevant secretariats gather at societal level in the "general people's congress" which takes decisions at societal level and to discuss world issues and how to participate in them... to help smoother discussions, the gather secretariats at this top level elect a "general secretariat"... the gathering becomes called "general people's congress" ( gpc )

in all this, each citizen's novel opinions are delivered from the bpc through a chain until it reaches the gpc, each decision by a bpc is delivered until it reaches the gpc... this makes each citizen of the society a politician and a decision maker and opiner... direct-democracy.

done within the guidance of socialism, this will yield and simplest and almost-perfect society... this entire system is called "jamahiriya" and if all societies human-wide are so changed, it will lead to "world jamahiriya"... this plus some more scientific changes will lead to true communism... a vision worth changing one's life for and working towards it.

i suggest you put a diagram for the bpc, mpc, rpc, gpc to understand them more easily.

for more ( The Green Book - I ).

"aam aadmi party" has a similar but smaller-scale idea in form of "swaraj".

kidnapping, raping poor women and girls

isn't that precisely what the government forces and its militias are accused of doing for decades??

this was even portrayed in the 2014 film "chakravyuh".

Everyone has different perceptions of developments.

sure, but there is a point where progressive/humane thought and scientific ideas find common ground and things begin to look simple.

what must be primary is social and ecological harmony... building unnecessary flyovers and skyscrapers is the wrong way, as i presented in my previous post.

All Indians and all Indian geological areas deserve to have same progress in terms of people and infrastructure.

of course.

Perhaps you can write down 10 good things which Naxals have given to India.

but you have never given them the chance to speak of their vision and ideals.

allow them the platform.

Suppose the govt gets a tip off of a major terrorist hiding in a hostile neighbouring country (don't equate this with India, its a general question) and the govt needs to strike quickly and stealthily, will it form village and town committees to decide?

while there would be need of a specialist force to do what you say, i will add that in a revolutionary country that provides the best to its citizens, it would be also the duty of the citizens to defend it.

Or if the govt wants to change the monetary policy to check inflation and increase growth, or cannot decide what the fiscal defecit should be, or have to decide on the recommendations of pay commissions, will it go to the village panchayats.

1. let us not use the word "panchayat" because that is a component of a wrong system.

2. since we are talking about changing the political system, we should also talk about gathering a bunch of village populations into newly built highly-urban townships which has no reactionary elements remaining from the previous village social/economic life.

3. let us take into account the socialism-based services i described about the libyan jamahiriya and transfer most of them ( exceptions being points# 13 and 14 ) to indian context.

4. let us take into account the recommendations made by a poona group about abolishing income tax and other economic points... do you know of this group??

5. the "basic people's congress" ( as described above ) would comprise of a enlightened neighborhood because of the radical change in the political system.

Of course, if the system or constitution is wrong it should be changed. The naxals should get elected as the AAP has done and then try to change it. If they take up arms against the state, their arms have to be chopped off

fair enough... though about elections, please see above.

like i have been saying, the naxals should be co-opted into a new progressive system... i don't see why they should refuse.

What do you mean by almost participated?? In 2003, when the request was made it was instantly rejected

"almost participated" because of protests by citizens and not because of government policy... remember, it was the nda in government then.

from ( Washington presses India to send troops to Iraq - World Socialist Web Site )...
The US has requested that India send a full army brigade of more than 17,000 troops to take on the responsibility of administering the northern sector of Iraq—an area of sharp tensions between ethnic Kurds and Arabs. If New Delhi agrees, the Indian force will be larger than the present British contingent and second only to the US military force itself.
President Bush and top US officials first made the proposal in early May when India’s National Security Advisor, Brajesh Mishra, visited Washington. The issue was subsequently discussed in the Cabinet Security Committee (CCS) twice in May but no decision was taken. Instead New Delhi sought further clarification about its proposed role in Iraq and the command structure under which its troops would operate.

Communist China is on a fight mode with socialist Japan and Vietnam.

socialist japan??

our primary japanese member, Nihonjin1051 , will be most surprised.

And regarding India being socialist or not, please go and read about nationalisation and the license raj and the quota Raj. There is a reason why the budget of 1991/1992 is hailed by everyone.

you confuse indian bureaucratic confusion with socialism.

And you call Libya and Syria socialist?? Where are single person have held power for decades!

to avoid circular argument, i will talk only about libya... muammar gaddafi stepped down from government authority in late 1979 and since then was "guide of the revolution" and he did not make decisions but was the moral guide who came up with ideas and proposed solutions and because of libya's "authority of the people" system, it was left to the citizens to accept or reject his suggestions... more on that in this recent thread ( Libya: From Africa’s Wealthiest Democracy to US-NATO Terror Haven ).
 
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Fake news
INDIA never used IAF to counter insurgency
The birds in question are not even attack choppers rather transport ones which are used for surveillance and for medical emergencies
 
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only yesterday i had written this in a thread started by ranjeet...



other than the violated rights of the non-combatant tribals is the case of the naxals themselves... there are already 80,000 crpf + thousands of state police and militias ( like salwa judum ) fighting a few thousand naxals... i find it sad that the indian urban middle class is busy in their colleges, jobs, weddings and cricket while not giving a moment to listen what the naxals are so desperate to say.

in 2003, the indian army was about to send 17,000 soldiers to iraq in support of the usa/british invasion/occupation forces and now this.

the indian military must make its stand clear as to whether they stand with a repressive bureaucracy and right-wing government, or will they help the progressive indians create a better environment.
Sir, I agree with you till the highlighted section, I don't want Indian military to take any decision on civilian matters. It may be exception for a just cause (according to you), but this is how interventions will start and we may become like our western neighbours in long run.
 
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In your post I can see govt is going to tell what is appropriate to do or not to do. The type of banking services is based on islamic banking (interest free banking) which Libya being an islamic country took it up. Govt cannot provide all the services mentioned above free cost in a country like India, its impossible. We dont have that sort of financial grit for the size of our population. The people exodus ( the ones who like to earn money, who are ambitious) will be in another scale. For this to work Taxation of every individual would be in another level.
I cannot fathom this in India simply to put in words.
 
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Sir, I agree with you till the highlighted section, I don't want Indian military to take any decision on civilian matters.

agreed.

It may be exception for a just cause (according to you)

sorry, didn't understand.

but this is how interventions will start and we may become like our western neighbours in long run.

while there is no equating the taliban ( a reactionary movement ) with the naxals ( maoist fighting group ), we must celebrate the fact that some pakistani members have been talking about the mistake pakistan establishment did in helping usa government overthrow the progressive socialist government in afghanistan... these pakistani members have been advising india not to walk the same regressive path and the advise is from experience.
 
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these pakistani members have been advising india not to walk the same regressive path and the advise is from experience.

How many of them are around on this forum? Can you name names? This is a very rare opinion to say the least in my experience.
 
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How many of them are around on this forum? Can you name names? This is a very rare opinion to say the least in my experience.

i remember about three or maybe four, though i don't remember names at this point... but i will tag you the next time i see such a thing.

In your post I can see govt is going to tell what is appropriate to do or not to do.

not really... the government of the people, brought through radical change, will not be big brother but only arrange the most simplest of political/social/economic system.

The type of banking services is based on islamic banking (interest free banking) which Libya being an islamic country took it up.

while you are correct that libya being a muslim country had a more easy path to interest-less banking, many muslim-majority countries ( maybe most ) follow western capitalist model, whether it is pakistan or indonesia.

libya before the october 2011 occupation was libyan socialist people's jamahiriya.

Govt cannot provide all the services mentioned above free cost in a country like India, its impossible. We dont have that sort of financial grit for the size of our population. The people exodus ( the ones who like to earn money, who are ambitious) will be in another scale. For this to work Taxation of every individual would be in another level.
I cannot fathom this in India simply to put in words.

okay, i will answer that but need time to put thoughts into words.
 
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Sir, I agree with you till the highlighted section, I don't want Indian military to take any decision on civilian matters. It may be exception for a just cause (according to you), but this is how interventions will start and we may become like our western neighbours in long run.
So what do you propose that the Naxals continue to target IAF choppers which are engaged in the CESVAC and the IAF do nothing about that!!It's not that the IAF is going on an offensive against the CPI(Maoists).It's only for their self defense.Last year an innocent IAF sergeant lost his life when these naxalite bastards targeted his chopper on it's way back home.The only thing that these naxalites fear about is the language of bullets and this is the only way we'll response to their reign of terror:rolleyes:!!
 
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you saying that sounds funny. :)
Yup it will sound a lot funny to people like you whose love for the Islamic Ummah is greater than their love for this country.On the contrary,I am a hard core Nationalist and hence for me the unity and integrity of India comes first,always and anytime.I hope you have understood what i am trying to convey here;)
 
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