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How Egypt Ruined the MiG-23 and Compromised Soviet Aerial Warfare Capabilities: President Anwar Sadat's Cold War Betrayal

Iran-Iraq War. There were some very good Iraqi pilots back then. And if I remember correctly,some Jordanians fought well against the Israelis.
Iran was under sanctions so you can't say for sure if Iraqi advantage was due to their pilots or lack of training and material on Iran's side.
Iraq's Mig 29s didn't put up any fight against American fighters even though it was an advanced fighter.
 
I get ur point, things are not as black and white as later on showed. Still dictatorship is never good. Unless its institutionalized authoritarian system.
There is no Arab country with an indigenously developed political/governance system. They are run by puppet dictators or kingdoms.
 
Iran was under sanctions so you can't say for sure if Iraqi advantage was due to their pilots or lack of training and material on Iran's side.
Iraq's Mig 29s didn't put up any fight against American fighters even though it was an advanced fighter.
No they both had good pilots with different aircraft. Iranians were trained by Americans and Israelis before the revolution.
 
There is no Arab country with an indigenously developed political/governance system. They are run by puppet dictators or kingdoms.
Care to expand on or explain the "indigenously developed political/governance system"..so we can just see if you are not mumbling words without understanding them..
 
Care to expand on or explain the "indigenously developed political/governance system"..so we can just see if you are not mumbling words without understanding them..
Nothing too hard to understand there.

Most of them are placed there by foreigners whether its democracy, dictatorship or a kingdom.
 
Nothing too hard to understand there.

Most of them are placed there by foreigners whether its democracy, dictatorship or a kingdom.
That is speculation and your own opinion since it contradicts the facts on the ground in the Arab world..
 
That is speculation and your own opinion since it contradicts the facts on the ground in the Arab world..
Weird that you people are unwilling to accept the basic realities despite being a laughing stock of the world.
 
UAE is good
Their air force is obsolete infront of Israels . In Hypotehtikal all Arab air forces get wiped in air in war with Israel . F-35 insures 82-0 (1982 air battle with Syria) dominance continues.

You mean I am ignorant about the Arab world? Maybe they are secretly maintaining their dignity away from world's view.

UAE is the only decent arab country that operates at a western level, whereas others have ineffective methods .
 
Their air force is obsolete infront of Israels . In Hypotehtikal all Arab air forces get wiped in air in war with Israel . F-35 insures 82-0 (1982 air battle with Syria) dominance continues.



UAE is the only decent arab country that operates at a western level, whereas others have ineffective methods .
And Egypt
They're competent too
Put some respect! :coffee::undecided:
 
And Egypt
They're competent too
Put some respect! :coffee::undecided:
Na bro read this :
Egypt’s procurement of the F-16 (starting in the 1980s under the Peace Vector programmes) appeared to close a qualitative military gap between itself and Israel, but the Egyptian military’s incompetence ensured Israel’s continued dominance. The Egyptian military did not (and does not) prioritise logistics, spending ‘only 30 percent’ as opposed to the minimum recommended 50% of US foreign aid on sustaining its military equipment. What’s more, ‘based on time elapsed between depot maintenance visits,’ Egyptian F-16s fly only half as much as their US counterparts. This indicates limited pilot training, in comparison to extensive Israeli pilot training which ensured victory in every major aerial engagement with Arab air forces.

This chasm compounds the existing issues Egypt has with training. The Egyptian military command has been described by Western officials as ‘a tower with a pyramid on top,’ indicating that ‘the amount of responsibility and authority retained at any given level in the Egyptian military is noticeably lower than for a U.S. counterpart.’ The mid and low-level commanders therefore cannot exercise the freedom and decision-making necessary for training success. Further, per Brooks’ research, the desire for control among senior officers also hinders effectiveness. Egyptian trainingoften lacks free play in favor of rigid, pre-planned scenarios where the outcome is obvious, and no surprises are permitted.’ According to Pollack, the culture of ‘fear of shame’ and ‘passivity within…patriarchal hierarchies’ in the Egyptian military likely prevents change and perpetuates ineffective training. These issues are all a continuation of the systemic problems that were sharply apparent in the 1973 October War. Here, ‘without a detailed script’ set by senior officers, Egyptian forces ‘floundered’ when left to rely on their limited and inadequate training. Finally, the procurement of the F-16 itself also validates Talmadge’s observations about unstable regimes and unconventional military organisation. President Hosni Mubarak sought to ‘appease…the officer corps by showering it with…[advanced] U.S. weaponry…not ‘accompanied…by the organisation, training, and sustainment necessary to render it truly effective.’
 
Na bro read this :
Egypt’s procurement of the F-16 (starting in the 1980s under the Peace Vector programmes) appeared to close a qualitative military gap between itself and Israel, but the Egyptian military’s incompetence ensured Israel’s continued dominance. The Egyptian military did not (and does not) prioritise logistics, spending ‘only 30 percent’ as opposed to the minimum recommended 50% of US foreign aid on sustaining its military equipment. What’s more, ‘based on time elapsed between depot maintenance visits,’ Egyptian F-16s fly only half as much as their US counterparts. This indicates limited pilot training, in comparison to extensive Israeli pilot training which ensured victory in every major aerial engagement with Arab air forces.

This chasm compounds the existing issues Egypt has with training. The Egyptian military command has been described by Western officials as ‘a tower with a pyramid on top,’ indicating that ‘the amount of responsibility and authority retained at any given level in the Egyptian military is noticeably lower than for a U.S. counterpart.’ The mid and low-level commanders therefore cannot exercise the freedom and decision-making necessary for training success. Further, per Brooks’ research, the desire for control among senior officers also hinders effectiveness. Egyptian trainingoften lacks free play in favor of rigid, pre-planned scenarios where the outcome is obvious, and no surprises are permitted.’ According to Pollack, the culture of ‘fear of shame’ and ‘passivity within…patriarchal hierarchies’ in the Egyptian military likely prevents change and perpetuates ineffective training. These issues are all a continuation of the systemic problems that were sharply apparent in the 1973 October War. Here, ‘without a detailed script’ set by senior officers, Egyptian forces ‘floundered’ when left to rely on their limited and inadequate training. Finally, the procurement of the F-16 itself also validates Talmadge’s observations about unstable regimes and unconventional military organisation. President Hosni Mubarak sought to ‘appease…the officer corps by showering it with…[advanced] U.S. weaponry…not ‘accompanied…by the organisation, training, and sustainment necessary to render it truly effective.’
You're still living in the 80s?
Not the Arabs..
 
Thank you, @Gripen9 for being truthful about the reality of the event and having the wherewithal to present it as it really is. It's refreshing to see someone who doesn't ride along and go with the flow simply based on emotion and preconceived notions that are biased simply because of their dislike of Egypt and Arabs in general. Good to see that.



That article has several misspellings of simple words; that is always a sign of not only poor journalism, but obviously poor editing and most importantly, it adds to the questioning of credibility of such an article and the source in general. "Defences" in spelled with an s and not a c.

It's also obvious the concept is completely untrue and reckless lying with a massive bias towards Egypt when it says something so untruthful about
How Egypt Ruined the MiG-23 and Compromised Soviet Aerial Warfare Capabilities: President Anwar Sadat's Cold War Betrayal

lol, oh ma goodness and giving a "love" like to such biased idiocy and lies is just as shameful. But I did notice several Bangladeshi fellas also display hatred towards Egypt and EVERYTHING Egypt lately that it really saddens and disappoints me. I never knew that Bangladeshis also disliked Egypt and everything Egypt. But hey, now that I see their true colors, they can be full of hatred all they want.

That article is nothing but an unworthy piece of trash. :lol: Let's dissect some of the filth that was posted in that piece of crap, shall we? And straighten the record out as well, while we're at it.



Defeat? The result of the war and the Egyptian military offensive ended up with Egypt holding on to the entire Bar Lev line and all 16 forts as well as the most important part, all the territory it gained while the enemy was forced to retreat more than 1/3 of the way across Sinai, essentially losing a huge swath of land they had stolen in 1967. You call that an Egyptian defeat? I'd hate to see what a victory is construed as. So one side keeps all the land it gained while it killed almost 3,000 enemy rats, and that same rat lost all that territory and it defeated Egypt?! LMFAO!!!! People are such fools and not just that, they want to believe that lie and so they turn a blind eye to the reality of what happened because of their hatred of Egypt. That's ok, it puts things more in perspective.



The MiG-23 could outperform the F-4? lol, This article is so full of rubbish it's ridiculous. I won't even go into technical details about the two aircraft, suffice it to say that the people in the know are aware of how stupid that is.



Another misspell, "neighbouring" is spelled neighboring. More journalistic and editing lack of credibility.

Anyone who is halfway familiar with these 20 years of war post 1955 knows very well the EAF was nowhere near quantitatively and not even close qualitatively to the x-nazis rapists of Palestinian occupied territory. Been through this so many times it's tiring.



"Advantage"? Funny how they don't quote the part in Shazly's book where he talks about how the US was fully committed as a partner to the enemy and worked with them throughout the entire war and beyond, with recon intel information and of course, Operation Nicklegrass.

Operation Nickel Grass was a strategic airlift operation conducted by the United States to deliver weapons and supplies to Israel during the 1973 Yom Kippur War. Over 32 days, the United States Air Force Military Airlift Command shipped 22,325 tons of tanks, artillery, ammunition and supplies in C-141 Starlifter and C-5 Galaxy transport aircraft between 14 October and 14 November 1973. The U.S. support helped ensure that Israel survived a coordinated and surprise attack from the Soviet-backed Arab Republic of Egypt and Syrian Arab Republic. WIKI

Not only did the US immediately share their SR-71 recon photos which showed the tiny gap between the 2nd and 3rd armies of Egypt to the enemy to exploit at the Japanese Farms (they were Japanese not Chinese) and worked with them throughout the entire war and after, including the filthy and sneaky work of Kissinger. Of course a Jew will help the Jews before he helps the Muslims, and we know how deceitful they are. Much of that had to do with allowing them to break the ceasefire to complete their TV show lol.

The Soviets replenished a bunch of stuff, there's no question about that and without them, Egypt would never have been able to execute the war it did and get the results it did. But their help was nowhere near the effort the Americans gave the enemy to help them from a major defeat. Instead, they had a little success in the end that never mounted to anything except a bit of leverage to get their prisoners back. The Soviets didn't do anything as far as working together with the Egyptians during the war, aside from the stock replenishing. This isn't a negative cast on them. Sadat didn't want their assistance and so they weren't tasked with it nor do Egyptians expected them to do so. But there is no comparison with what the US did to help the enemy. That should be made clear as day.

So how is this an Egyptian defeat? Let's expose this lying joke.

Did they force any of the Egyptian armies to withdraw? NOPE.
Did they force the Egyptians to do anything that reduced their gains? NOPE.
What ended up happening? Oh yeah, the filthy, land-stealing enemy had to withdraw over a 1/3 of their grounds which they LOST to the Egyptian armed forces or the war was about to continue. And they call that a defeat?!?!?! looool. Absolutely hilarious. There's the truth about that ridiculous, lie of an article that obviously has some dislike of Sadat and of us Egyptians. That's ok, screw them and those who support their hatred ten times over. :lol:



You still have no shame? After the trouncing you took on the other thread, you still show your hypocrisy in full daylight? I guess once a hypocrite, always a hypocrite. The Turks who allied and befriended that land-stealing enemy way back in 1946 and sucked off anything they had and never lifted a gun in anger against them have the nerve to speak against the Arabs who fought them and shed their blood and lives against them? That's laughable at this point.

A decade or more earlier 'c' was used, instead of 's' in defenses. Similarly 'u' was also used in neighbor!
 
Their air force is obsolete infront of Israels . In Hypotehtikal all Arab air forces get wiped in air in war with Israel . F-35 insures 82-0 (1982 air battle with Syria) dominance continues.



UAE is the only decent arab country that operates at a western level, whereas others have ineffective methods .
There is no way any Arab country is getting the same tech that Israel has from western countries. They want to protect Israel and use Arabs and their oil wealth.
 

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