How do people view Islamic organizations in Pakistan from the outside

[VCheng]

I have met only a few people from Al-Huda - including one of those upper middle class ladies that @VCheng talks about. I can not say to what extent they can be accused of brainwashing, since anyone is free to attend their activities or not. If studying religion is a crime then indeed they are guilty. If it be wrong to emphasize a certain sectional thought over others, then they are wrong. But in a free society, acting lawfully is not wrong.

If someone wishes to complain about Army being open to influence of such organizations, then they underestimate Army's own internal network. Or perhaps they really wish for Army to be robots - cold, inhuman, and soulless.

@S.Bukhari probably opposes them for their puritanical views. If so, I would not blame him for not liking them. I would, however, fault him for not having vision to see what his opposition to them actually supports.

@Zarvan of course being a straightforward soldier of Allah must march into any argument and openly, loudly, & emphatically proclaim his views much like the loud RATATAT of an AK-47. Would he ever realize that he may be doing more harm than good to his cause?

Of course what al-Huda does is perfectly legal and indeed their right. But what I want to point out is that once such thought process gain hold in a majority of households, the Taliban's job will be made much easier. Indeed, that might just be their plan since they know that they cannot meet the Army in a direct confrontation of firepower.

 

[Chak Bamu]

I have no problem, but Al-Huda does pose a great danger to civilized society, or what remains of it, in Pakistan.

Matter of perspective! Perhaps they are more of a civilizing influence than you realize.

Perhaps @Zarvan can tell you more about al-Huda, but this is their nicely done website:

Al-Huda International

They specialize in brain washing middle and upper middle class educated women.
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Edit:

And if you think there is no harm in that, please take a look at this thread, right from the start to the very last comment by the Admin of this website.

if women is free to show off her body, then why she is not free to cover it?

That is just one sign of the insidious brain washing at work.

I have taken a look at it. I find absolutely nothing wrong with the thread apart from what seems to be a rather innocuous and perhaps seemingly tad bit silly Muslim feminist perspective of the OP. Its certainly not a defense site material, but then most of what that gets posted on PDF is not defense related anyway. When people have no problem posting about defecation in the open and rapes in South Asia, then I guess a little harmless thread about feminist perspective does not hurt.

I find it funny that you choose to see that there is something wrong with @Aeronaut 's post at the end of the thread. How could you have a problem with that, and why does it attract your attention?

If there is anything insidious here, it is your brain that seems to work counter-intuitively.

Brainwashing? Good one indeed.

 

[VCheng]

Matter of perspective! Perhaps they are more of a civilizing influence than you realize.

Of course it is a matter of perspective.

All I am saying is that we all should be prepared if conservative and extremist religious thought takes hold of a majority of Pakistani society and we have a rigid theocracy, just like in Iran.

I am not saying it is wrong or right. If the nation wants it, it will get it.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Of course what al-Huda does is perfectly legal and indeed their right. But what I want to point out is that once such thought process gain hold in a majority of households, the Taliban's job will be made much easier. Indeed, that might just be their plan since they know that they cannot meet the Army in a direct confrontation of firepower.

Do you even understand Pakistan's society? I find your post totally devoid of meaning.

You seems to be generating a bogeyman apparition for no reason at all. Do you know that most Pakistanis actually support Sharia? What does that tell you about the people? Must then you find problem with believers because they believe? TTP are khwarij, but their perspective, or at least narrative is based on Islamic terminology. That can not in any way be used to disparage innocuous, plain, lawful, organizations.

I refuse to buy your snake oil. It is nothing more than tap water.

Of course it is a matter of perspective.

All I am saying is that we all should be prepared if conservative and extremist religious thought takes hold of a majority of Pakistani society and we have a rigid theocracy, just like in Iran.

I am not saying it is wrong or right. If the nation wants it, it will get it.

Majority of Pakistanis already are conservative. I fail to see what you are aiming at. Currents in a society do not all flow in one direction. Look at @S.Bukhari 's DP. He is agreeing with you in opposition to the likes of Al-Huda. What does that tell you?

Still don't get it?

 

[SQ8]

I refuse to buy your snake oil. It is nothing more than tap water.

Its vitamin water. Essentially water with 1/25th of fruit flavoured drink added and sold at 5 times the price in pretty packaging to those who dont know better.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Its vitamin water. Essentially water with 1/25th of fruit flavoured drink added and sold at 5 times the price in pretty packaging to those who dont know better.

I am not good with emoticons, otherwise I'll have a dozen of them here including ROFL, etc...

 

[VCheng]

Do you even understand Pakistan's society? I find your post totally devoid of meaning.

You seems to be generating a bogeyman apparition for no reason at all. Do you know that most Pakistanis actually support Sharia? What does that tell you about the people? Must then you find problem with believers because they believe? TTP are khwarij, but their perspective, or at least narrative is based on Islamic terminology. That can not in any way be used to disparage innocuous, plain, lawful, organizations.

I refuse to buy your snake oil. It is nothing more than tap water.



Majority of Pakistanis already are conservative. I fail to see what you are aiming at. Currents in a society do not all flow in one direction. Look at @S.Bukhari 's DP. He is agreeing with you in opposition to the likes of Al-Huda. What does that tell you?

Still don't get it?

Most Pakistanis support sharia. So it will not be any surprise if sharia law is enforced, right? That is all I am saying. There is nothing for me to sell. Pakistan is heading that way on its own.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Most Pakistanis support sharia. So it will not be any surprise if sharia law is enforced, right? That is all I am saying. There is nothing for me to sell. Pakistan is heading that way on its own.

The problem is with imposition of sectarian thought and lack of toleration, not with Sharia as such.

We have institution, which if left to work within the system would evolve our solution. Nothing wrong with that.

Now I would like to know what makes you so sure in your cynicism?

 

[Dubious]

Interesting discussion

 

[VCheng]

The problem is with imposition of sectarian thought and lack of toleration, not with Sharia as such.

We have institution, which if left to work within the system would evolve our solution. Nothing wrong with that.

Now I would like to know what makes you so sure in your cynicism?

What cynicism? All I am describing is the actual state of affairs that is gradually preparing the grounds for a narrow-minded theocracy. And if you think I am imagining things, please try asking any minority in Pakistan these days how far things have changed over the last few years and where do they see the country heading.

 

[Secur]

Interesting discussion

One can always weigh in , instead of eating popcorn and enjoying the show .

 

[MastanKhan]

What is your problem is the are teaching Islam you can't stop Islam and if you have problem with Islam most love Islam and are following it and among women specially of upper middle class and rich class passion to learn and study Islam is increasing and these secular can never counter that and stick to operation Sir this thread if for operation

Hi,

It is not a problem with Islam---but the problem is with the muslim with what they do with it.

 

[Secur]

TTP are khwarij, but their perspective, or at least narrative is based on Islamic terminology.

If you studied Islamic history , nearly all such movements were based on Islamic terminology . Good for confusing gullible people it always has been , mate . The organization in question isn't preaching violence or extremism , no , the trouble arises with them asking the women ( who are themselves choosing to allow them into their house of course ) to reject the common societal and cultural practices and the modernity and all things Western have always been forbidden for pious Muslims . Some time later , the same women will by their own choice again will cut off all ties with the world , I have seen it happen here quite too often . Radicalization , that is what it is . They are building up the opinion towards one step further - extremism so if later the TTP or other extremist groups comes in some other form , the mindset will be already there for them to exploit . You see smoking doesn't really cause COPD in one go - it starts with a decreased ability to absorb oxygen , wheezing , cough , severe bronchitis and then proceeds to it and by then its too late . I have seen such groups function , they aren't really what you think . The top side is sweet of course , the hemlock I assure you is concealed in the middle .

 

[Dubious]

One can always weigh in , instead of eating popcorn and enjoying the show .

I would once I read what its about...So far all I get is Vcheng with his negativity and presumptions against rest of Pakistan

 

[Secur]

I would once I read what its about...So far all I get is Vcheng with his negativity and preseptions against rest of Pakistan

Comment when you read it . But it is more than a person's opinion , such groups do function in the ways being discussed .