how did china build its infrastructure ?

[ChineseTiger1986]

too bad so many brainwashed people hate that, think its crowded, and believe the american way of 1 person taking up 300 m2 of space, eating enough to feed an entire african village and growing fat is the way to go. unfortunately, this is impossible to reverse.

Americans are the biggest parasites on Earth, they consume far more natural resources per capita than any other groups.

 

[BigTree.CN]

Americans are the biggest parasites on Earth, they consume far more natural resources per capita than any other groups.

In fact, I have no problem with the way Americans are living their life. Whether they consume more natural resources or not is none of our businesses, as long as they leave China alone.

What i hate most is after they have been enjoying such a luxurious life for so many years, they dare point their fingers at us, accusing China of consuming too much resources, disregarding China has a much larger population than US. The way they patronize us is much more disgusting than the way they live their life.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

In fact, the average American person generates FIVE TIMES as much pollution as the average Chinese person per capita.

So it is laughable, that they are lecturing us on pollution and climate change.

 

[ThatDamnGood]

In fact, the average American person generates FIVE TIMES as much pollution as the average Chinese person per capita.

So it is laughable, that they are lecturing us on pollution and climate change.

Leaked US cables reveal sensitive diplomacy - Yahoo! News

In a statement released Sunday, WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange said, "The cables show the U.S. spying on its allies and the U.N.; turning a blind eye to corruption and human rights abuse in 'client states'; backroom deals with supposedly neutral countries and lobbying for U.S. corporations."

Their release — the first in a series of planned releases over the next few months — "reveals the contradictions between the U.S.'s public persona and what it says behind closed doors," Assange said.

***Damn whinny lying basterds...

 

[CardSharp]

In fact, I have no problem with the way Americans are living their life. Whether they consume more natural resources or not is none of our businesses, as long as they leave China alone.

What i hate most is after they have been enjoying such a luxurious life for so many years, they dare point their fingers at us, accusing China of consuming too much resources, disregarding China has a much larger population than US. The way they patronize us is much more disgusting than the way they live their life.

In fact, the average American person generates FIVE TIMES as much pollution as the average Chinese person per capita.

So it is laughable, that they are lecturing us on pollution and climate change.

Not to mention the fact that the US 'exports' in a sense its pollution to manufacturing countries like China. It may be very environmentally costly to produce product x+y but as long as they import it, they can point the fingers at the producers for using too much resources and environmental damage.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

In fact, I have no problem with the way Americans are living their life. Whether they consume more natural resources or not is none of our businesses, as long as they leave China alone.

What i hate most is after they have been enjoying such a luxurious life for so many years, they dare point their fingers at us, accusing China of consuming too much resources, disregarding China has a much larger population than US. The way they patronize us is much more disgusting than the way they live their life.

This is the ultimate racism of Western mentality. A good China for them must be a poor China with African living standard. Remember what they have said before to the native Americans? "A good Indian is only a dead Indian!"

As long as China is on the journey of a rising power, there will have endless harassment from the Western Imperalism, it would never be easy and peaceful, unless we can manage to beat them.

Of course China wants a peaceful prosperity, but Yankees won't allow China to become prosperous.

 

[CardSharp]

This is the ultimate racism of Western mentality. A good China for them must be a poor China with African living standard. Remember what they have said before to the native Americans? "A good Indian is only a dead Indian!"

Look familiar?

Wounded Knee Massacre

Einsatzgruppen in the Ukraine

 

[below_freezing]

Not to mention the fact that the US 'exports' in a sense its pollution to manufacturing countries like China. It may be very environmentally costly to produce product x+y but as long as they import it, they can point the fingers at the producers for using too much resources and environmental damage.

2% of our GDP is trade with the US, so 2% of our pollution should be attributed to the US.

before this attribution, they're already 5 times more polluting than us.

 

[WAR-rior]

I don't think that this claim is true.

China's ICBC is world's most-profitable bank

From left: Bank of China, ICBC, and Citibank towers in Hong Kong

China Construction Bank is world's second most-profitable bank

World's most-profitable banks for 2009

World's-largest bank market-capitalization

Chinese banks turning into modern global financial giants - The China Post

"Chinese banks turning into modern global financial giants
Updated Tuesday, July 20, 2010 1:12 pm TWN, By Grace Ng, The Straits Times/Asia News Network

BEIJING -- Chinese folklore claims the world's first modern bank — complete with credit issuance and central bank regulation — originated in the early 11th century, amid flourishing cross-border trade during the Yuan dynasty.

Almost a millennium later, a rising dragon economy wants to show off to the world its modern banking giants, just as it did with other inventions from the printing press to gunpowder — which the Middle Kingdom claims credit for and which the West capitalized on.

And everyone is watching in awe.

China has the world's most profitable bank, four of the world's top 10 banks by market value, some of the world's largest bank loan books — and now, one of its newly listed banks may claim the title of the world's largest initial public offering.

With the debut of Agricultural Bank of China (AgBank), which raised US$19.2 billion, in Hong Kong and Shanghai last week, China's five state-owned listed behemoths are now squarely dominating the global banking domain.

By their sheer asset size, these lenders have ruled the roost for a few years.

The combined assets of Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC), China Construction Bank Corp (CCB), Bank of China (BOC), Bank of Communications and AgBank totaled 43 trillion yuan (US$6.3 trillion) as of the end of March.

This accounts for half of the domestic banking sector and is roughly the size of China's gross domestic product last year.

Their meteoric rise has confounded market watchers worldwide.

In just two decades, they have transformed themselves from debt-ridden basket cases financing wastrel state-owned enterprises, into some of the world's most profitable outfits.

ICBC, for instance, topped The Banker's annual rankings as the world's most profitable bank, with pre-tax earnings of US$24.5 billion last year, followed by CCB with US$20.3 billion.

It is an impressive show of earnings power, even if their internal controls and systems may still not be on a par with those of the West.

“The irony is that 10 years ago, China's banks were among the weakest in the world and today they are among the strongest, however primitive their system,” Pieter Bottelier, an economics professor at Johns Hopkins University and former World Bank official, told Newsweek last year.

Chinese banks have also become significantly more sophisticated in recent years.

While retail lending activities still make up the bulk of revenue — up to about 80 percent for the rural-focused banks — they are moving into areas like corporate and investment banking by recruiting aggressively and occasionally poaching whole teams from Western banks.

ICBC recently recruited banking star Zhang Hongli — former chairman of Deutsche Bank's China operations — as deputy president, to beef up its investment banking operations.

Meanwhile, BOC's investment bank is making a name for itself in Hong Kong. It was one of eight underwriters for Hong Kong-listed UC Rusal's US$2.55 billion flotation in January.

And five Chinese banks — both state-owned and state-linked ones — are in the top 10 core investment banking revenue earners in Asia excluding Japan, according to data tracker Dealogic.

The only area in which these state-owned banks have no foothold or state-boosted advantage is private banking.

“Which rich person in China is so stupid that he would let a state-owned bank manage his money?” asked one Hong Kong banker who declined to be named.

“But for investment and corporate banking, some of the bigger players like ICBC may well be keen rivals to Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan for Asian mandates in the next five to 10 years,” he added.

For foreign investors, Chinese bank stocks may look like a must-have part of their portfolios, to tap China's heady economic growth over the coming years.

Chinese Academy of Social Sciences research fellow Yi Xianrong said: “Chinese banks are profitable and they are a much safer bet than Western bank stocks

“At the very least, when you say the Chinese banks are too big to fail, you know it's true — the Chinese government will never let them fail.”

Yet even with China's top-three listed banks all posting record first-quarter earnings, and AgBank saying before its IPO that it expects a 40 percent jump in first-half net profits compared to last year, to 46 billion yuan, Chinese bank shares have had a rough year in the stock markets.

Some are hovering near 52-week lows, while their price-to-book ratios have fallen to less than two since April.

This is lower than other Hong Kong-traded bank shares such as Hang Seng Bank, which are trading at more than three times their book value.

It is because of this that some analysts have turned bullish on Chinese bank stocks. CCB's attractive valuation has won it “buy” or “overweight” ratings from the majority of analysts recently polled by Starmine, a company that tracks the performance and calls of equity analysts.

But others are worried about the risks of rising non-performing loans at Chinese banks.

“The banks lent heavily to the property sector and to fund local government projects in the stimulus measures last year. These areas may face problems this year, and the banks will face significant risks,” said finance professor Mei Jun of Renmin University.

As the big state-owned banks push on with their ambitions to expand operations abroad, especially in emerging markets from Africa to Latin America, there are also concerns about whether they are overstretched and overly exposed to global financial sector risks.

“Chinese banks are now shielded because they are focused on the domestic market, where the government can help protect their market share,” said Professor Li Jiming of Zhejiang University City College's business school.

Their risks will rise as they expand abroad, “but it is the price they must pay — and want to pay for world domination,” said Hong Kong-based analyst Charlie Chu."

hey martian !

went thru ur whole article and tried to analyse.

i was actually shocked to see ur post denying my study and tried to find out why and how. finally i came up with an analysis. please contribute.

-------
What i find is that u are specifying on growth of chinese banks and their competition in the world. What i was stressing was on BANKING and FINANCE SECTOR. and u will find theres a lot difference between them. just like maximum billionaires are from india doesnt make us a rich country.

similarly, if u consider sector as a whole, it comprises of factors like EQUITY SHARE VALUES, COST - INCOME ratio, NONPERFORMING LOANS AND RETURN ON ASSETS, etc which actually attracts investors and thats what my inference was coz i am advocating high indian growth only on basis of some strong INVESTMENT both domestic and international.

now i cant post links coz my arguments are totally on basis of my research database and this forum only allows online links .

i am pasting some lines and graphs from my papers. see if u can comprehend.

************

Capital Adequacy: India's banking sector has on average a higher capital basis than the
Chinese as measured by the ratio of capital to risk-adjusted assets and the equity share (Figure
1). The Chinese banking sector has however shown some improvements in recent years
following the recapitalization of the SOBs.50
Asset Quality: Both countries have started the reform process with a huge burden of NPLs.
India has however so far more successfully managed to gradually reduce the burden of NPLs
and to introduce hard-budget constraints. In China the ratio of NPLs has despite capital
injections and strong loan growth not declined significantly (Figure 2).
Management Soundness: The cost-income ratio is lower in China. India has since 1992 shown
a steady improvement and has lowered the CIR from 90% to 70% (Figure 3)

Earnings and Profitability: With the exception of the immediate aftermath of the balance-of-
payment crisis, India's banks have been consistently more profitable than China's banks as
measured by the returnonassets (Figure4).

While the profitability of China's banks has
improved somewhat,it remain slow by international standards.
Liquidity: Credit from monetary authorities to deposit money banks was not of great
importance in India (Figure5).

However in China it was an important tool for refinancing and
capitalization of banks. The importance has however declined in the last years as well. One
possible reason for the highshare is the former mono-bank system were no distinction
between the centralbank and commercial banks was made.

Other indicators:

Two further indicators to evaluate there forms are liquid liabilities to GDP
and the M-4 concentration ratio. Liquid liabilities to GDP is an indicator of the depth of the
financial system. China by far exceeds India in this respect (Figure6). The M-4 concentration
ratio is the sum of the market shares of the four largest banks in the market. Due to the larger
institutional diversity in the Indian banking sector in the pre-reform period, the concentration
of the banking sector is significantly lower compared to China, which should result in more
intense competition that benefits banks' customers(Figure7).
Thus, it can be concluded that on a sectoral level the Indian banking sector outperforms the
Chinese with the exception of the cost-income ratio. The relatively weak performance of the
Chinese banking sector as measured for example by the equity share or NPLs is exacerbated
by the great importance of the Chinese banking sector for the overall economy as indicated by
the high ratio of liquid liabilities to GDP.
Possible factors that may explain the better performance of the Indian banking sector are an
earlier start of reforms, a less difficult institutional legacy since India had no mono-banking
system,and a lower concentration,which may lead to a higher degree of competition.

BELOW ARE THE SNAPSHOTS FOR THE GRAPHS !

***************

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B4cUsXERk441MTUyNDk5NDUtYTkzOS00Njg2LWFhOWMtODIwMmQ1YWIwY2Q1&hl=en

https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B4cUsXERk441M2MyMTRjZDItNmQzZi00MmFjLWI2YjMtZGYxNWIxMzM2ZmZk&hl=en


-------------------

Now i have highlighted some part of ur own article.......

it says the growth of this bank is mostly coz of domestic reach where indians bank havent...... obviously number of urban population in india is less than china. and thats where ur banks are world competative. but performance wise for investors, its still a risky venue.

Thanks !

 

[CardSharp]

^^^^^

you're google books link is dead and just a quick word. I think the difference here is China's banks are orientated toward serving high growth exporting companies whereas western banks are orientated towards investments. China has traditional placed large barriers to investment and this is because it want control of capital flow (after seeing how countries [Argentina, SE Asian crisis] can be sabotaged opening its doors too quickly to foreign capital)

 

[Martian2]

The two largest and most-profitable banks in the world for 2009 are Chinese (e.g. ICBC and China Construction Bank). Most reasonable people would agree that China has the world's most powerful and richest banks. The two Chinese banks earned 45 billion dollars in profits last year.

Also, ICBC was the world's most profitable bank in 2008.

Looking at the chart of the world's 20 most-profitable banks, there is not a single Indian bank on the chart. And yet, you want to look at some obscure measurement standard and claim that India has a more "powerful" banking and finance sector?

Come on, no one is going to believe that. For example, let's suppose that I start a tiny little "bank." I loan 10 dollars to a friend and he pays me back 20 dollars in one year. Using your standards, I can claim a ROI (i.e. Return On Investment) of 100%.

Using the ROI standard, my little bank has outperformed the world's two largest and most-profitable Chinese banks. It does not follow that my little bank is more powerful than China's two mighty world's-largest and most-profitable banks in the banking and finance sector. Capiche?

 

[CardSharp]

The two largest and most-profitable banks in the world for 2009 are Chinese (e.g. ICBC and China Construction Bank). Most reasonable people would agree that China has the world's most powerful and richest banks. The two Chinese banks earned 45 billion dollars in profits last year.

Also, ICBC was the world's most profitable bank in 2008.

Looking at the chart of the world's 20 most-profitable banks, there is not a single Indian bank on the chart. And yet, you want to look at some obscure measurement standard and claim that India has a more "powerful" banking and finance sector?

Come on, no one is going to believe that. For example, let's suppose that I start a tiny little "bank." I loan 10 dollars to a friend and he pays me back 20 dollars in one year. Using your standards, I can claim a ROI (i.e. Return On Investment) of 100%.

Using the ROI standard, my little bank has outperformed the world's two largest and most-profitable Chinese banks. It does not follow that my little bank is more powerful than China's two mighty world's-largest and most-profitable banks in the banking and finance sector. Capiche?

I think he's trying to say that India's banking system is geared strongly toward equities and investment, essentially less restrictions than China and higher capital utilization because state own banks are limited by the government. In all he's trying to say that Indian banks are more profitable given the same amount of capital.


BUT with higher capital utilization, comes higher risk and that is just something China isn't interested in. At a time where China wants to protect itself from further shocks of financial disasters coming out of the US and now Europe. Higher risk is just not worth it for satisfying the share holders.

 

[Martian2]

Since you seem to insist that India has a more "powerful...banking and finance" sector than China, let's compare China's ICBC and India's State Bank of India.

China's ICBC had profits of $25 billion U.S. dollars. State Bank of India had profits of $2 billion U.S. dollars (see State Bank of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). India's largest bank is less than 1/12 as profitable as China's ICBC.

Are you going to keep claiming that India's banking and finance sector is more "powerful" than China's?

To use an analogy, China is the world's largest manufacturer and exporter. Does it make any sense to find some obscure and silly measure, which no one else cares about, to claim that India has a more powerful industrial and manufacturing sector than China?

Will anyone believe you?

India's entire banking sector profits for 2007 was only roughly $6 billion dollars (e.g. about 3 times the profits for State Bank of India; see http://www.dnb.co.in/topbanks/company_listing.asp?q=Total_Income). China's ICBC earns more in profits than India's entire banking sector; ICBC's $25 billion vs. all-of-India's $6 billion. ICBC alone makes four times the profits than all Indian banks combined.

Who's more powerful, ICBC or all Indian banks combined? You tell me.

 

[CardSharp]

Since you seem to insist that India has a more "powerful...banking and finance" sector than China, let's compare China's ICBC and India's State Bank of India.

China's ICBC had profits of $25 billion U.S. dollars. State Bank of India had profits of $2 billion U.S. dollars (see State Bank of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). India's largest bank is less than 1/12 as profitable as China's ICBC.

Are you going to keep claiming that India's banking and finance sector is more "powerful" than China's?

To use an analogy, China is the world's largest manufacturer and exporter. Does it make any sense to find some obscure and silly measure, which no one else uses, to claim that India has a more powerful industrial and manufacturing sector than China?

Will anyone believe you?

China ICBC ~1 800 billion dollar in total assets
SBI ~ 320 billion dollars in total assets

asset ratio = 5.6

ICBC profit ~25 b
SBI ~ 2 b

profit ratio = 12.5

Hmmm I started calculating thinking India's bank would have performed better on an asset adjusted basis but I guess not...

 

[WAR-rior]

The two largest and most-profitable banks in the world for 2009 are Chinese (e.g. ICBC and China Construction Bank). Most reasonable people would agree that China has the world's most powerful and richest banks. The two Chinese banks earned 45 billion dollars in profits last year.

Also, ICBC was the world's most profitable bank in 2008.

Looking at the chart of the world's 20 most-profitable banks, there is not a single Indian bank on the chart. And yet, you want to look at some obscure measurement standard and claim that India has a more "powerful" banking and finance sector?

Come on, no one is going to believe that. For example, let's suppose that I start a tiny little "bank." I loan 10 dollars to a friend and he pays me back 20 dollars in one year. Using your standards, I can claim a ROI (i.e. Return On Investment) of 100%.

Using the ROI standard, my little bank has outperformed the world's two largest and most-profitable Chinese banks. It does not follow that my little bank is more powerful than China's two mighty world's-largest and most-profitable banks in the banking and finance sector. Capiche?

well dude, its about the HOLISTIC PERFORMANCE. my point was only specific to investments which is where i used it 1st in earliest post.

ur argument comes on the basis of indian banks in top 10-15 banks of the world.......mind u, its only coz of your booming construction sector. but what bout risk portfolios, trust of investors, etc etc...

CHINESE BANKS ARE THE BIGGEST DEFAULTERS OF LOANS ! now what does that means to an investor's confidence?

as per your logic, tell me how many rich people do china have in top 20 ?

Then compare it with indian riches.....

THEN IT WILL MEAN INDIAN PEOPLE ARE MORE RICH !