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How Dalit, Shudra and Muslim unity can beat twice born Hindu oppressors in India

Its not me who is promoting conversion, it is people like Ambedkar and Kanshi Ram, both promoted conversion to Buddhism, Ambedkar actually did it, but Kanshi Ram died before he could.

Racial Reality: Racial Composition and History of India

Twice born Hindu's have hatred in their heart for Dalit/Shudra, I can see that in this forum. This hatred has been there for many thousand years and will remain for who knows how many centuries or millennium. The best escape route for these victims of hatred, Dalit/Shudras, is for them to leave the system that does not work for them and join another system. Perhaps they should follow advice from Ambedkar and Kanshi Ram and become Buddhists.
Buddhism is just a offshoot of Hinduism....and even if a person get cobverted to Buddhism keep enjoying the fruits of being SC/ST. so, basically they never left their religion completely....
and who are u to soot this message from across the border....don't u think same is true for muslims.....
as there are daily killing, bombing, sectarian killings...among shias, ahmadis, sunnis and paktuns, etc...they should leave islam and convert to other..... while majority of terrorist activities today are blamed on Muslims....the fellow Muslims should leave islam....
will u suggest the same to them...
 
Buddhism is just a offshoot of Hinduism....and even if a person get cobverted to Buddhism keep enjoying the fruits of being SC/ST. so, basically they never left their religion completely....
and who are u to soot this message from across the border....don't u think same is true for muslims.....
as there are daily killing, bombing, sectarian killings...among shias, ahmadis, sunnis and paktuns, etc...they should leave islam and convert to other..... while majority of terrorist activities today are blamed on Muslims....the fellow Muslims should leave islam....
will u suggest the same to them...

I don't know about other places, we don't hate fellow Muslims and we don't have any caste in Bangladesh. The hatred for Shudra/Dalit types seem to come from Indian Hindu's in PDF, I am guessing they are mostly twice born.

Exactly. He witnessed BJP come to power on its own without the support of Muslims and absence on south and east. This must have frightened this bas***d. He is a fundamentalist Mullah with a very ugly intention. He will never support Muslims getting into mainstream, get educated and contribute in the development of Nation. These people only have power in their mind and their design is to get it through dirty casta and religious divide.

You are wrong, I am not Mullah, I support Muslims getting highest possible education and contribute to nation. BJP is playing caste politics:
The secret of BJP's success in Uttar Pradesh: Winning over Dalits and OBCs, and a dose of Hindutva | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis

The secret of BJP's success in Uttar Pradesh: Winning over Dalits and OBCs, and a dose of Hindutva
Friday, 23 May 2014 - 11:30am IST | Place: Mumbai | Agency: DNA
Badri Narayan
  • 238583-charm.jpg
The 2014 Parliamentary elections have thrown up stunning results. No election analyst could predict a win of 71 out of 80 seats for the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in UP. My attempt here is to understand what happened at the political and social level that led to the BJP's stupendous success, wiping out the Congress, the Samajwadi Party and the Bahujan Samaj Party.

While acknowledging the Modi wave or tsunami, I would like to understand what exactly this phenomenon is. In a wave-like situation, a large number of stray or floating votes gets swayed in a democratic society like ours. Going by past elections these stray votes can make up to 4-5 per cent, transcending caste, religion and community. The recent elections saw an increase of 25 per cent of BJP vote share and 71 seats. In contrast, in the 2009 elections the BJP won 17.5 per cent or 10 seats in Uttar Pradesh. From where did the BJP secure this additional 25 per cent?

That there has been an increase in the number of youth supporting the BJP is beyond dispute. Alongside, a large percentage of the traditional voters of SP, BSP and Congress, too, have voted for BJP. In 2009, the BSP polled 27 per cent votes as against 19.6 per cent in the 2014 elections — which is nearly 7 per cent less. The party also did not win a single seat in UP this time. Registering a decline of 1.5 per cent in its voteshare, the SP was left with a handful of seats.

The BJP-RSS combine adopted a special strategy for appropriating Dalit and backward caste votes. Amit Shah, the coordinator of the UP chapter, along with RSS preachers took more than an active interest in such caste associations. Shah projected backward and Dalit faces and engaged in Hindu polarisation in the wake of the Muzaffarnagar riots. The message disseminated among Dalits and backward castes was that the Congress, BSP and the SP were so busy polarising Muslims, they had no concern for Hindus. The RSS machinery spread the idea that an OBC could for the first time become India's Prime Minister.

While addressing Dalits, Shah campaigned that Mayawati was indifferent towards them. Simultaneously, he appropriated the legacies of Ambedkar and other Dalit heroes, and promised the Bharat Ratna for Kanshiram. Shah organised meetings in UP's Dalit villages with the help of social organizations like Sewa Bharati Vishwa Hindu Parishad with RSS linkages. The UP campaign-in-charge gave importance to BJP's backward (Lodh) leaders like Kalyan Singh and Uma Bharti in the rallies of Anupriya Patel, the leader of the Apna Dal comprising Lodhs.

Without the support of the backward castes, constituting 50 per cent of UP's population, it would not have been possible for the BJP to win so many seats in UP. Amit Shah conducted a thorough survey of UP, participating in several backward caste association meetings himself. He roped in two backward caste leaders, Satyendra Kushwaha and Rameshwar Chaurasia, to firm up BJP's prospects. When Modi launched Vijay Shankhnaad rallies in UP, Kalyan Singh and Uma Bharti were given prominent positions on the podium. The electorate was promised reservations for all backward castes, in education and jobs.

This successful strategy endeared the BJP to backward castes in regions considered SP strongholds. For instance, the candidature of Sadhvi Niranjan Jyoti from Fatehpur got the BJP the support of Kashyap and Nishad communities. While tickets to a Thakur in Hamirpur and a Brahmin in Banda, succeeded in winning the BJP the support of these influential communities. Another strategy was to rope in Pasi, Sonkar, Rawat and other non Jatav candidates in order to wean away the non-Jatavs — the most marginalised Dalit castes — from the BSP.

By projecting himself as a backward caste member, Modi not only won the support of this community, but he also honed his Hindutva edge without openly talking about sensitive issues like Ram Mandir. By not donning the Muslim skull cap, nor apologizing for the Godhra riots, Modi emphasized that he would not compromise on Hindutva and Hindu culture. All these moves proved to be costly for Mulayam Singh Yadav. At the same time the RSS succeeded in signalling to the backward castes their first opportunity to have a Prime Minister from their ranks

In UP, the Dalit population — Mayawati and the BSP's votebank — is 21.6 per cent. This, by itself, cannot fetch Mayawati an impressive tally of seats. The Dalit votes can be converted into victory only by aligning other social groups with them. Kanshiram had tried to rally together the most marginalised, backward communities and the Muslims under one party banner. But ground level social conflicts between Dalits and other backward castes prevented any enduring electoral gains. However, a small percentage of the most marginalised and Muslims continued to be loyal to the BSP. The RSS active among these communities for many years brought the Dalits and the most marginalised castes together through the social harmony campaign, besides leveraging political strategies to forge links between them and the BJP.

The expansion of the new economic policy, spread of the market, and increase in the size of consumer groups under the UPA had changed the face of villages and cities of UP. People desired a good life, buying consumer durables, increasing their earning and spending capacities. TV, mobile phones and the Internet started making inroads into both rural and urban areas in a big way. Unable to understand the changing mindset of this 'desiring society', the BSP continued to focus on traditional identity-based politics. A dominant middle class had already developed among the backward castes, which tried to strengthen itself politically through social networking sites Facebook and Twitter. The BSP was unable to communicate with this group, while the BJP and Narendra Modi reached out to them through social media sites.

The BJP played the politics of Hindutva. It resulted in the victory of leaders in Western UP, implicated in the Muzaffarnagar riots, all of them winning by 4-5 lakh vote margins.

The author is a social historian, author and political analyst
 
I don't know about other places, we don't hate fellow Muslims and we don't have any caste in Bangladesh. The hatred for Shudra/Dalit types seem to come from Indian Hindu's in PDF, I am guessing they are mostly twice born.
lol...u may not hate any one in Bangladesh because there are only Sunnis ... but the history is there..full of blood shed between the the sects of Muslim ... Iraq current crisis is the most recent example ..of how one sect of muslim.hate others....
i will not deny there is no hate in india.among casts but that is limited to very small number and to backward places....
its mostly the politicians who want to keep cast issue alive for their personal gain ...not the mango people...
 
Ditto. Never knew what caste system was until I was about 22. Read about it only in history books.
Me too.

It is not so much an exclusion as much as a different societal set up which fit like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Rishis, sages, renunciates, monks were other part of this "exclusion." All highly respected and venerated but again not bound by societal obligations and not a part of the societal framework. The varna system did not apply to them either, but no one would say that they were not part of Hinduism either now, would they?
Completely agreed.
 
India election 2014: Modi 'lowered caste status to boost humble image' - Telegraph

India election 2014: Modi 'lowered caste status to boost humble image'
Congress and the BJP have clashed over election favourite Narendra Modi's caste after campaigners claimed it was falsely designated as 'backward' to win over poor voters
modi_2906823b.jpg

Narendra Modi displays the victory symbol during his election campaign rally in Varanasi Photo: RAJESH KUMAR SINGH/AP


By Dean Nelson, New Delhi

7:01PM BST 09 May 2014

Narendra Modi's Bharatiya Janata Party has angrily rejected claims that he used his power as a chief minister to lower his official caste status to 'backward' as an election ploy.

Mr Modi, who is widely regarded as the favourite to be India's next prime minister, has used his low caste status to stress his humble origins and affinity with a group that accounts for more than half of the electorate.

He raised the caste issue in March when he told a rally he had sold tea on trains with his father when he was six years old.

When a Congress leader then taunted him as a lowly tea boy or "chai-wala", he announced 1500 "chai pe charcha" - "chat over tea" – rallies via video link throughout the country.

India's ancient caste system still plays a key role in election campaigns. Victory is won by assembling the largest alliance of caste groups, religious minorities and 'untouchable' Dalits – the lowest social group born outside the caste system.

Mr Modi is a Modh Ganchi, a tiny oil trading sub-caste of the higher caste Vaishya merchants, but according to Congress Party researchers his group was officially redesignated as one of India's 'Other Backward Castes' shortly after he became chief minister of Gujarat in 2002.

This group, known as "OBCs", benefit from reserved government jobs and college places to offset the discrimination they face from higher castes.

According to Shaktisin Gohil, a Gujarat Congress Party leader, an official government circular confirms the transfer of Mr Modi's Modh Ganchi group of wealthy oil traders normally considered part of the upper Vaishya trading caste.

He said a Gujarat government circular, issued in 2002 after he became chief minister, had officially listed the group as members of the "Other Backward Castes", Mr Gohil said on Friday.

Mayawati, the Dalit leader and former Uttar Pradesh chief minister, also questioned Mr Modi's low caste credentials earlier this week. "Is he an OBC at all?" she asked.

Arun Jaitley, the leader of Mr Modi's Bharatiya Janata Party in the Indian parliament's upper house, said his leader's caste, the Modh Ganchis, had been listed as a backward caste in 1994 – long before Mr Modi became Gujarat chief minister. "The ruling dynasty of the Congress cannot digest defeat at the hands of a commoner", he said.

Mr Modi's position was supported by Prof P Radhakrishnan, one of India's leading experts on caste, who said that while the Modh Ganchis are traders, they have always been oppressed by the high Brahmin caste whose members are forbidden from eating with or marrying them.

"They are not untouchables but traditionally Brahmins didn't share food or socially mix with them. They were an oppressed class and looked down upon by Brahmins. They are a lower middle caste but not Dalits and hence in present caste equations they fall into the OBC category", he explained.
 
lol...u may not hate any one in Bangladesh because there are only Sunnis ... but the history is there..full of blood shed between the the sects of Muslim ... Iraq current crisis is the most recent example ..of how one sect of muslim.hate others....
i will not deny there is no hate in india.among casts but that is limited to very small number and to backward places....
its mostly the politicians who want to keep cast issue alive for their personal gain ...not the mango people...

Lets say a bunch of white Europeans move to a faraway country and they take no women with them. In the new country they get married with black women (Andaman Nicobar type Onge) and then there are some mixed children. But white guys keep coming, but this time the new ones marry only the mixed women. This wave of migration keep going on for many thousand years.

Now the mixed people who have varying degrees of local gene, the whitest among them create a caste system. They keep the most unmixed among the highest class and give them the job of priests. Then the next one in the ladder gets the warrior position and the 3rd one gets the trader/landowner position and finally the 4th gets to be servant for all 3 above. The ones that got little admixture with the migrants remained outside of the 4 color caste system.

If you make an experiment like this, guess what the place will look like.

Whites and blacks do not get along in the US, even after living together for many centuries. The mixed ones usually remain within the black community and they are no longer considered white. But overall the communities do not intermarry and live mostly in segregated communities.

India has continued like this for many thousand years and old habits die hard. No matter what you guys tell me, I have seen the hatred from Indian posters for Dalit/Shudra types and that tells me that the hatred in their heart is alive and well. It gets hidden and more polished under political correctness but it is there. As long as I see this kind of hatred, I will create threads like this and tell the victim Shudra/Dalit to not trust the twice born people in India and forge new alliance to gain more electoral power for themselves. No one will give it to them, unless they act and take it with their own hands.

If BJP can uplift their condition and remove the hatred from the heart of twice born Hindu's towards their fellow man, then I would congratulate such a development. But it is too early to tell, time will tell what BJP can do for the Dalit/Shudra's.

My message for this thread is that do not hate your fellow human being and countrymen. If you continue doing it, the victims have the power to take matters into their own hand, forge new alliance and take power using their votes and ballot box.
 
Lets say a bunch of white Europeans move to a faraway country and they take no women with them. In the new country they get married with black women (Andaman Nicobar type Onge) and then there are some mixed children. But white guys keep coming, but this time the new ones marry only the mixed women. This wave of migration keep going on for many thousand years.

Now the mixed people who have varying degrees of local gene, the whitest among them create a caste system. They keep the most unmixed among the highest class and give them the job of priests. Then the next one in the ladder gets the warrior position and the 3rd one gets the trader/landowner position and finally the 4th gets to be servant for all 3 above. The ones that got little admixture with the migrants remained outside of the 4 color caste system.

If you make an experiment like this, guess what the place will look like.

Whites and blacks do not get along in the US, even after living together for many centuries. The mixed ones usually remain within the black community and they are no longer considered white. But overall the communities do not intermarry and live mostly in segregated communities.

India has continued like this for many thousand years and old habits die hard. No matter what you guys tell me, I have seen the hatred from Indian posters for Dalit/Shudra types and that tells me that the hatred in their heart is alive and well. It gets hidden and more polished under political correctness but it is there. As long as I see this kind of hatred, I will create threads like this and tell the victim Shudra/Dalit to not trust the twice born people in India and forge new alliance to gain more electoral power for themselves. No one will give it to them, unless they act and take it with their own hands.

If BJP can uplift their condition and remove the hatred from the heart of twice born Hindu's towards their fellow man, then I would congratulate such a development. But it is too early to tell, time will tell what BJP can do for the Dalit/Shudra's.

My message for this thread is that do not hate your fellow human being and countrymen. If you continue doing it, the victims have the power to take matters into their own hand, forge new alliance and take power using their votes and ballot box.
do not try to teach me caste system.....i know many fold better than u what it is....and how it is been implied to the indian society..... though the cast system originated centuries ago... but it was due to the same reason why Europe had elite class and working class....this hierarchy is been followed to everyplace till the 18-19 th century.... this changes with time and re- innovate itself with the changing culture and time....old traditions which are useless will be broken apart...and same is happening .... the cast difference is narrowing day by day... but i know, the day it will vanish it be people like u who will feel the most butt hurt....
what do u suggest to shias, ahmadis and other...should they become Buddhist or Christian or hindu...as this sect war is happening from last 1400 years.....i think they should....
 
Lets say a bunch of white Europeans move to a faraway country and they take no women with them. In the new country they get married with black women (Andaman Nicobar type Onge) and then there are some mixed children. But white guys keep coming, but this time the new ones marry only the mixed women. This wave of migration keep going on for many thousand years.

Now the mixed people who have varying degrees of local gene, the whitest among them create a caste system. They keep the most unmixed among the highest class and give them the job of priests. Then the next one in the ladder gets the warrior position and the 3rd one gets the trader/landowner position and finally the 4th gets to be servant for all 3 above. The ones that got little admixture with the migrants remained outside of the 4 color caste system.

If you make an experiment like this, guess what the place will look like.

Whites and blacks do not get along in the US, even after living together for many centuries. The mixed ones usually remain within the black community and they are no longer considered white. But overall the communities do not intermarry and live mostly in segregated communities.

India has continued like this for many thousand years and old habits die hard. No matter what you guys tell me, I have seen the hatred from Indian posters for Dalit/Shudra types and that tells me that the hatred in their heart is alive and well. It gets hidden and more polished under political correctness but it is there. As long as I see this kind of hatred, I will create threads like this and tell the victim Shudra/Dalit to not trust the twice born people in India and forge new alliance to gain more electoral power for themselves. No one will give it to them, unless they act and take it with their own hands.

If BJP can uplift their condition and remove the hatred from the heart of twice born Hindu's towards their fellow man, then I would congratulate such a development. But it is too early to tell, time will tell what BJP can do for the Dalit/Shudra's.

My message for this thread is that do not hate your fellow human being and countrymen. If you continue doing it, the victims have the power to take matters into their own hand, forge new alliance and take power using their votes and ballot box.

Shia-Sunni throat cutting competition is making headlines worldwide these days. Hindu society is relatively free of conflicts.
 
Twice born Hindu's have hatred in their heart for Dalit/Shudra, I can see that in this forum. This hatred has been there for many thousand years and will remain for who knows how many centuries or millennium. The best escape route for these victims of hatred, Dalit/Shudras, is for them to leave the system that does not work for them and join another system. Perhaps they should follow advice from Ambedkar and Kanshi Ram and become Buddhists.

Our society had a discrimination but all had the right to live. We have not slaughter anybody because of his cast or religion. If you are recommending Dalits to become Buddhist, Buddhism is already there on your border. Tell me where the Muslims are safe? Whether they are in Myanmar or in India?
 
I don't know about other places, we don't hate fellow Muslims and we don't have any caste in Bangladesh. The hatred for Shudra/Dalit types seem to come from Indian Hindu's in PDF, I am guessing they are mostly twice born.

Why you do not know about the other places? Don't you know what is happening in Iraq, Syria and Pakistan?

Your country remained immuned to that because of secularism and Indian guidance in administration. There are clear indication that your country is drifting towards the islamic fundamentalism. Every society is some negative points however the specialty of our society is that we can identify our weaknesses and refine our society which you guys can not do. In21 st century, all Muslims countries are drifting more and more in the grips of fundamentalist elements

You are wrong, I am not Mullah, I support Muslims getting highest possible education and contribute to nation. BJP is playing caste politics:


Fundamentalism is the core of islam. Education can not make any difference. Was Osama, Al Jawhari or attacker or the WCT were uneducated? Only difference is that educated will lead the group while uneducated will become a suicide bomber.
.
 
haha brainfarts from bangladeshis and muslim writers, dreams at their best, No Sane person would ally with muslim organizations knowing their history and their ideology, the moment these so called muslims achieve their goals these so called dalits who aligned will get 2 option die or convert.LOL
There are still some leftist writers and thinkers in India who peddle such crap, the big churning is taking place they will be rendered useless in future, only Hindu unity all the way in future, more people join RSS and subscribe to Hindutva ideology. :D
 
People have been trying since a very longtime to use this Dalit+Muslim votebank but the reality is,Dalit people ll lose their reservations if they convert and no muslim ll help a non muslim and certainly not a dalit.

Dalit people also come from many inherent quams,they became dalit,there is no quam as dalit.

They know that they gain the most by remaining hindu and not by hanging out with random muslims.
 
So what happens when they beat the opressive hindus.

Will there then be a clean up of Muslim higher castes as well?
 

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