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How Dalit, Shudra and Muslim unity can beat twice born Hindu oppressors in India

Interesting info, did not know they lived in forests and such and that caused their exclusion.

It is not so much an exclusion as much as a different societal set up which fit like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. Rishis, sages, renunciates, monks were other part of this "exclusion." All highly respected and venerated but again not bound by societal obligations and not a part of the societal framework. The varna system did not apply to them either, but no one would say that they were not part of Hinduism either now, would they?
 
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Prospects of Dalit-Muslim alliance, The Milli Gazette, Vol.5 No.18, MG112(16-30 Sep 04)

Prospects of Dalit-Muslim alliance
By Syed Shahabuddin

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Dalits have the sorrow of centuries etched into their faces. On the whole, despite 50 years of reservation in legislatures, public employment and education, often drummed up as reparation and compensation for centuries of treatment as a sub-human species, they still constitute the most backward section of the Indian people, socially, educationally and economically. They are nearly 25% in population but constitute 50-60% of the BPL (Below the Poverty Line) population; they have less than 10% share in public employment, perhaps less in private employment; they have a higher proportion in starvation deaths, in epidemic toll, illiteracy, in school drop-out. Generally they live in their own rural and urban ghettos, engage in their traditional professions, they are mostly marginal farmers and landless labour and are often denied tenancy rights and even minimum wages by the owners, by use of force.

Muslims are nearly as backward as the SC/ST's but they are also the target of Hindu chauvinist and fundamentalist forces. In their eyes, the Muslims are not only responsible for the division of the country and the creation of Pakistan but the real obstacle in the Hinduisation of India i.e. transformation of the secular state into a Hindu state. The strategy of Hindu Nationalism is Hindu consolidation i.e. formation of a political alliance of the Hindu high castes and the Shudras under the time-tested leadership of the Brahmins. However, by virtue of numbers, in a democratic system the SC and ST command political importance and there is a continuous tussle among political parties for their support.

Muslims are nearly as backward as the SC/ST's but they are also the target of Hindu chauvinist and fundamentalist forces. In their eyes, the Muslims are not only responsible for the division of the country and the creation of Pakistan but the real obstacle in the Hinduisation of India i.e. transformation of the secular state into a Hindu state. The strategy of Hindu Nationalism is Hindu consolidation i.e. formation of a political alliance of the Hindu high castes and the Shudras under the time-tested leadership of the Brahmins. Though the Achhuts and the Adivasis were for centuries treated as outside the pale of the Dharma, they are sought to be brought in because of the numerical power they possess. Political association, religious absorption or even educational and economic benefits do not mean social equality. So while 'pollution' which cannot be a factor in a modern urban setting, marriage of the Savarnas with the Panchmas and the Adivasis is still rare. However, Hindu Nationalists have succeeded, through welfare and educational attention, through ideological brainwashing and finally through economic support, in engaging their services as their foot soldiers. More often than not, in anti-Muslim riots, the Dalits are incited, armed and organized to attack Muslims.

Ambedkar has been pirated by Hindu Nationalists and included in its pantheon of Hindu heroes. While his writings and statements attacking Hinduism are ignored, his comments against Muslims are used to brainwash the Dalits. In many tribal areas, the penetration of Hindu upper castes and exploitation of Dalit labourers by them is ignored, while the tribal ire is directed against much fewer Muslim settlers, cultivators and shopkeepers. Polygamous marriages by Muslims with tribal women is represented as sexual exploitation and used to incite the tribal population.

There is no doubt that in urban areas, the few Dalits who live in Muslims areas enjoy peace and security. Yet there is no socialization between the two groups. In fact the Muslim society in general, which includes a large proportion of descendants of Panchma converts, particularly the well-placed Baradaris, look upon the SC's with contempt. This became evident during 1980 General Election when many Muslims who were against Indira Gandhi had reservation about her Janata Party rival Jagjivan Ram, only because he happened to be 'chamar' by caste!

Objectively speaking, there has always been a good case for Dalit-Muslim Alliance in terms of common suffering, common deprivation and common aspirations to secure equality and justice, except for brief spells on isolated occasions, no real alliance has ever crystallized. Sometimes, the Muslim leadership, often consisting of the so-called Ashraf, does not know which section of the Dalits to address, which common or separate grievances should go into the common agenda, and how to mobilize the two communities for the common cause of political empowerment, economic and social justice. Sometimes the Dalit leadership does not know which section of the Muslim religious leadership to approach or trust. Under the surface, there are misgivings and no common leadership has emerged.

With land reform and green revolution the Shudras have achieved an economic breakthrough. They constitute about 50% of the population. Some sections have made visible progress in education and found a veritable presence in professions. They are conscious of the discrimination and indignity they have suffered but their role model is the Kshtriya; they want to be accepted as equal members of the Chaturvarna; they are on the path of Sanskritisation. They are denied the sacred thread but they vie with the Savarnas in performance of rites and rituals, through Brahmin priests. After all, they do not challenge the religious supremacy of the Brahmins. In the long run, they want accommodation within the Brahminical system. Economically, also they find themselves competing with the Muslim intelligentsia for government jobs and in profession and their prosperity largely depends on the exploitation of the Dalit labour.

The up and coming brand Shudras have formed their parties, the Samajwadi Party/Rashtriya Janata Dal, representing the Yadavs, the Apna Dal and the JD(U) representing the Kurmis, the Rashtriya Lok Dal, representing the Jats and similar Shudra outfits, north of the Vindhya. Even south of the Vindhyas, there are parties which essentially represent the interests of some Shudra groups but they have a long history of revolt against Brahminism. Electorally, all these parties are anxious, like the Congress or the BJP, to secure the support of the Muslims and to snatch the so-called Muslim vote bank. The BJP has done its best to divide the Muslims and keep them from extending united support either to Congress or to its rivals and even tried to play the Muslim Card, but with little success.

Dalit and Muslims constitute the poorest and the most deprived sections of the Indian people. Their understanding is the first step towards establishment of a regime of social justice in India. The other religious minorities do not come in their category. The Sikhs and the Christians are largely happy with what they have, the Jains and the Parsis have the bedrock of affluence to lie on. Together the Dalits and the Muslims constitute 40% of the total population. Electorally together they could sweep a majority of seats in the Assemblies and in the Lok Sabha in the whole country. But first the miasma of misunderstanding and distrust needs to be dissipated. The Muslims must shed any contempt for the Dalits; the Muslims, as the relatively stronger section, should share their meagre resources with the Dalits, e.g. provide educational facilities for Dalit students in their institutions; Muslim cultivators and landowners should treat Dalit landless labour and share-croppers equitably and at least in accordance with the law; Muslim shop keepers should not double as moneylenders and economically exploit the Dalits; Muslims should abjure any organized effort to convert the Dalits to Islam; under any circumstances, even in retaliation, Muslims should not raise their hands against the Dalits living in their areas or attack Dalit clusters; Muslims should treat them with equality and respect in their tea stalls and catteries; Muslims should invite Dalit neighbours living in their tolas and mahallas on social occasions and break bread with them and accept their hospitality.

Above all, Muslim politicians should not look upon Dalits as their political fodder and vice versa. They should both support each other's legitimate interests and work out a system of mutual and reciprocal support, right from the Panchayat level to the Assembly and Lok Sabha. For example, the Muslim voters in reserved constituencies should support the Dalit candidates who command the affection of the Dalit masses, not those who are really banking on the support of the non-Dalit Hindus and of the high castes, as the candidates of big political parties generally do. Muslim and Dalit leadership should always extend support to the struggle of each other for security, equality and dignity, in accordance with the Constitution.

On the other hand, the Dalit leadership should not look upon Muslims merely as an ally in their struggle against the Brahminical order, but as a partner in the great, national task of reconstruction of the Indian Society on the basis of Democracy, Secularism and Social Justice. The Dalit leadership should take an unequivocal and consistent approach towards the forces of Hindu Revivalism and Chauvinism and of Hindu Nationalism - never shake hands with Hindutva parties, like the BJP or AIADMK or Shiv Sena. The Dalit leadership should counteract the pernicious influence of the Sangh Parivar among the tribals and ensure that the Dalits are not used as foot soldiers in a war against Muslims or Christians. The Dalit leadership, particularly among the Adivasis, should educate the masses to ensure that religion is correctly registered in the Census and they are not labelled as Hindus. They should stand squarely for suitable amendment to the Constitution (Scheduled Caste) Order, which detracts from the freedom of religion of the SC's, by repealing the criteria of profession of Hinduism.

The formulation of a National Strategy for Dalit-Muslim Unity demands both sincere effort at the grassroot level and political collaboration at the national and state levels. Political understanding and cooperation will emerge only through intellectual interaction at Workshops, Seminars, Symposiums, and Conferences. Dalit-Muslim Alliance will be born out of a nation-wide campaign by a joint leadership which will emerge, if the Muslim and Dalit MP's and MLA's of all parties and leaders of Muslim and Dalit social and cultural organizations come closer to each other and form a consensus not only on matters and developments of concern to them but on all national issues which in the final analysis affect all citizens and also retard or accelerate our movement, as a nation, towards the goals of Social Justice.
Al these Big Bang theories were laid to rest in 2014 General elections...where even Muslims voted for Hindu Nationalist party to lead country for the next 5 years....and people like the author can go cry a river...
 
Time for China to arm the alliance with nuclear weapons!


Allies may turned out to be foe in future. If china does that than others may arm Chinese enemy with NW as well, Possibility of Nuclear bomb falling n the hands of ant china terrorist group may not be denied.
 
Dalits, muslims, shudras, and martians should form a grand alliance to decimate the fascist hindus. Then everyone in the world will live happily ever after and there shall be peace........

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He reveals his real intention when he talks about controlling more than 50% electorate with the help of Dalits again and again. Certainly, not out of love for Dalits -- but trying to use them as cannon fodder for their religious imperialistic motives a.k.a. Caliphate. Too bad for him though, it isn't going to happen!


Exactly. He witnessed BJP come to power on its own without the support of Muslims and absence on south and east. This must have frightened this bas***d. He is a fundamentalist Mullah with a very ugly intention. He will never support Muslims getting into mainstream, get educated and contribute in the development of Nation. These people only have power in their mind and their design is to get it through dirty casta and religious divide.
 
And what did she do when she came into power in the all important state of UP? Spend millions of tax payers' money on lavish monuments with multiple statues of herself.
All these people talk about betterment of Dalits but the reality is that it is just vote politics and people proved that they are above all the caste politics. In this elections Mayawati's party did not win even a single seat.

The 5000 year old hatred of foreign origin Aryans for the local Dalit is not possible to get rid of, it is the genes that get in the way. Modi with his alleged OBC caste of Modh Ghanchi (not accepted by many as OBC) is playing caste politics. Before election:
Why did Narendra Modi suddenly turn to caste? | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis
How BJP won Uttar Pradesh - Livemint
After election:
No Uttar Pradesh dalit MP in Modi cabinet - The Times of India
Upper Castes Rule Modi’s Cabinet, Backwards Relegated To MoS | Link Newspaper

Legacy of Ambedkar being hijacked by BJP:
Caste Reflects the Genius of India, Said Gandhi. Beware of Gandhi, Said Ambedkar. Who Wins? -The New Indian Express
 
He reveals his real intention when he talks about controlling more than 50% electorate with the help of Dalits again and again. Certainly, not out of love for Dalits -- but trying to use them as cannon fodder for their religious imperialistic motives a.k.a. Caliphate. Too bad for him though, it isn't going to happen!

I am not saying that Dalits/Shudra's should become Muslim, they can choose what they want to be - Buddhist, Christian or Muslim, their choice. But they should not remain Hindu and hold the status of being the lowest caste or "out-caste". I have no part in this as a Bangladeshi. This is a matter for Indians by Indians, I am just giving some unsolicited ideas and suggestions, that is all, for our fellow Dalit/Shudra brothers. :azn:

I noticed how hateful most Indian posters are making fun of Bangladeshi's for their Dalit looks, in Bangladesh section of the forum, so I thought it is a good idea to show some love for our fellow Dalit/Shudra brothers other side of the border.
 
I am not saying that Dalits/Shudra's should become Muslim, they can choose what they want to be - Buddhist, Christian or Muslim, their choice. But they should not remain Hindu and hold the status of being the lowest caste or "out-caste". I have no part in this as a Bangladeshi. This is a matter for Indians by Indians, I am just giving some unsolicited ideas and suggestions, that is all, for our fellow Dalit/Shudra brothers. :azn:

I noticed how hateful most Indian posters are making fun of Bangladeshi's for their Dalit looks, in Bangladesh section of the forum, so I thought it is a good idea to show some love for our fellow Dalit/Shudra brothers other side of the border.
were u a dalit or sudra ..before u got converted...
 
were u a dalit or sudra ..before u got converted...

Lets keep my person out of it, what is relevant is majority of Bangladeshi's were and my name Kalu is to honor that heritage, which I wear as a badge of honor.
 
I am not saying that Dalits/Shudra's should become Muslim, they can choose what they want to be - Buddhist, Christian or Muslim, their choice. But they should not remain Hindu and hold the status of being the lowest caste or "out-caste". I have no part in this as a Bangladeshi. This is a matter for Indians by Indians, I am just giving some unsolicited ideas and suggestions, that is all, for our fellow Dalit/Shudra brothers. :azn:

I noticed how hateful most Indian posters are making fun of Bangladeshi's for their Dalit looks, in Bangladesh section of the forum, so I thought it is a good idea to show some love for our fellow Dalit/Shudra brothers other side of the border.

Shia should cease being Muslims. They must float their own separate religion.

Like I said, no non-Muslim will ever join a social/political block which includes Muslims.
 
Lets keep my person out of it, what is relevant is majority of Bangladeshi's were and my name Kalu is to honor that heritage, which I wear as a badge of honor.
u want to keep urself out of this but open a debate which is very personal to others.... u want the dalit and sudra to convert to other religion... what makes u think cast is not personal to others....like u wear the badge of honor many dalit and sudra and low cast wear the same badge of honor...and u want them to leave their heritage and join ur conspiracy group...
 
The 5000 year old hatred of foreign origin Aryans for the local Dalit is not possible to get rid of, it is the genes that get in the way. Modi with his alleged OBC caste of Modh Ghanchi (not accepted by many as OBC) is playing caste politics. Before election:
Why did Narendra Modi suddenly turn to caste? | Latest News & Updates at Daily News & Analysis
How BJP won Uttar Pradesh - Livemint
After election:
No Uttar Pradesh dalit MP in Modi cabinet - The Times of India
Upper Castes Rule Modi’s Cabinet, Backwards Relegated To MoS | Link Newspaper

Legacy of Ambedkar being hijacked by BJP:
Caste Reflects the Genius of India, Said Gandhi. Beware of Gandhi, Said Ambedkar. Who Wins? -The New Indian Express


What you posted is some the millions of article published in India. We are moving ahead leaving cast and religion behind. Vajpayee had made Kalam the President. You can pick up some article from Indian media as per your wishful thinking out of thousand published with different view points.

What ever you or our enemy think, we are getting united and emerging as a strong Nation. On the other hand the country and people like yours are talking of Islamic brotherhood but cutting the throat of your own breather. We have put in place a very strong government and leadership. There is a little doubt in our and other rationally thinking people that we are going to emerge as a very strong, peaceful and prosperous nation and a value based society. Wishful thinking of yours or writer is not going to help you guys.
 
u want to keep urself out of this but open a debate which is very personal to others.... u want the dalit and sudra to convert to other religion... what makes u think cast is not personal to others....like u wear the badge of honor many dalit and sudra and low cast wear the same badge of honor...and u want them to leave their heritage and join ur conspiracy group...

Its not me who is promoting conversion, it is people like Ambedkar and Kanshi Ram, both promoted conversion to Buddhism, Ambedkar actually did it, but Kanshi Ram died before he could.

Racial Reality: Racial Composition and History of India

Twice born Hindu's have hatred in their heart for Dalit/Shudra, I can see that in this forum. This hatred has been there for many thousand years and will remain for who knows how many centuries or millennium. The best escape route for these victims of hatred, Dalit/Shudras, is for them to leave the system that does not work for them and join another system. Perhaps they should follow advice from Ambedkar and Kanshi Ram and become Buddhists.
 
I am not saying that Dalits/Shudra's should become Muslim, they can choose what they want to be - Buddhist, Christian or Muslim, their choice. But they should not remain Hindu and hold the status of being the lowest caste or "out-caste". I have no part in this as a Bangladeshi. This is a matter for Indians by Indians, I am just giving some unsolicited ideas and suggestions, that is all, for our fellow Dalit/Shudra brothers. :azn:

I noticed how hateful most Indian posters are making fun of Bangladeshi's for their Dalit looks, in Bangladesh section of the forum, so I thought it is a good idea to show some love for our fellow Dalit/Shudra brothers other side of the border.


What ever the discrimination was there with dalit, we try to do a expiation by giving them Jobs and reservation in schools etc and making them prime beneficiary of the government welfare scheme. On the other hand we know very well what you guys did to even Muslims of other sect.

Meanwhile try to contain Muslims converting to christianity inspite of death risk.


Iranian Church Sees Growing Muslim Convert Population Despite Risk of Death
 

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