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How correct are mystical predictions about Pakistan?

Many sufis have said the same thing including Sarfraz A Shah, Sufi Barkat Ali and many others. But it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen without hard work and effort. You see, humans have plans and Allah has plans as well. Allah gives (limited) knowledge of these unseen things to whomever he wills amongst his friends. It doesn’t necessarily mean that bright future will come without worldy effort or when it will come but come it will inshaAllah, that I believe.
 
StormBreaker said:
As much as I want this to become true, We Pakistanis should stop living in the illusion that we are some extraordinary people.

The reality is that we are such people, Billions of dollars spent on Peshawar metro and the first day our jahils cut seat and wreck havoc in the station, This is the reality of Pakistan unfortunately.
Click to expand...


the problem are not people, its lack of justice.. do u think why people in america behave, because they fear the justice ayatem... and then generations learn what law is and they follow it automatically
 
All the preditions and thinking we r some special ppl is crap. Allah is not bound to do anything by anyone's wishes or predictions. It all depends on our behavior. If we become humble and thankful to Allah and follow his path, Allah will grant us success or else we will be another tale. Read how past nations were destroyed and how humble ppl were raised in stature by Allah.
We Pakistanis have a problem, we think we r special but we r not. We think of others as below our level but reality is we ourselves have fallen low. We produce fake stuff, low standard edible things, low standard baby food, there is milawat in everything. We lie a lot and we dont discriminate between halal and haram. Most of our population would go to a grave and ask the dead for help instead of asking from Allah. We would happily spend money on shrines and useless things but would not pray 5 times a day. We would teach others abt Islam but never fix ourselves. Behai and fahashi is so commom now, remember many nations were destroyed because of fahaashi. We like to be called best muslims by name but are same as kafirs by conduct. Our media is behaya and our moral standards are going down daily. Every sin on face of earth is present in us and we are not bothered and consider ourselves special.
Allah says in Quran, surah mulk(16,17,18)

"Have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed?"

"Or have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not let loose on you a hurricane? But ye shall know the manner of My warning."
"And verily those before them denied, then (see) the manner of My wrath (with them)!"

So have pakistanis taken security from Allah that we think we will not be punished?? The way we celebrate our events is full of arrogance and behayai, from marriages to 14 August. We need to be humble and repent n be thankful to Allah and always ask for forgiveness.
 
Chakar The Great said:
BEFORE I say anything about predictions by mystics and saints, please be assured that neither am I one of those who too readily believe in soothsayers, mystical or otherwise, nor do I intend to convince the readers of the validity of divine prophecies about Pakistan’s future. Rather the purpose of this piece is just to share with the readers the contents of an interesting research article on the subject of mystical predictions, which has just appeared in a literary magazine, as the article presents different views with an academic detachment.

Casting shadows of doubts over Pakistan’s future has been a favourite pastime of many ever since the country came into being and there has never been any dearth of pessimists who love to draw bleakest scenarios of Pakistan’s future. The so-called think-tanks in the West had even predicted, in their ‘research-based studies’, total chaos in the country; Pakistan becoming a failed state or even its disintegration in the first decade of the 21st century. A country — the most allied ally of the West — that came into being against all odds and survived against all odds has yet again managed to survive beyond the deadline given by our western well-wishers. Of late, some Western scholars have become more careful and they talk about only the near-future of Pakistan, say five to seven years, and are kind enough to vaguely say that in the near-future the country might “muddle along” in the same manner as it did in the past.

But, strangely enough, there have always been some people, no matter how few, who have had great confidence in this country’s future, which has generally not looked much promising. Aside from the common Pakistanis, the bunch of these optimists includes some mystics and saints, too. Interestingly, some websites have been posting predictions about the country’s bright future on the basis of prophecies attributed to a Sufi saint named Shah Ne’matullah Vali. Shah Sahib’s ‘qaseedas’, or panegyric odes, that have recently become hugely popular again are known for their prophecies. Just as symbolic and as arcane as the predictions by Nostradamus, these poems forecast, according to some interpreters, among other things, Pakistan would not only become a prosperous country but one that leads the world. Sounds too good to be true? Well, maybe.

Mumtaz Mufti, one of Urdu’s prominent fiction writers of the 20th century, had turned to mysticism during the latter part of his life. Mufti Sahib had always been very confident about Pakistan’s bright future. His optimism was based on some spiritual experiences and prophecies of some Sufis he was in touch with. When Dr Najeeba Arif, International Islamic University’s faculty member, carried out a research on Mumtaz Mufti’s life and works, the mystical dimension of Mufti’s life, too, came under her probe. In her doctoral dissertation, Dr Arif had brought under discussion this aspect of his life and works. Now she has come up with a research paper that discusses the prophecies about Pakistan based on Shah Ne’matullah Vali’s predictions.

Published in ‘Mabahis’, a new Urdu research journal from Lahore and edited by Prof (Dr) Tehseen Firaqi, the paper’s title can be translated as ‘Pakistan: a dreamland for South Asian Muslims or a failed state, a recent scholastic perspective of Shah Ne’matullah Vali’s prophecies’.

She begins her paper with some deliberations of the international conference on Pakistan held in Italy in May 2010. Delegates from 16 countries participated in the conference and all but one said that Pakistan was a failed state. The only delegate who disagreed with the view was a former diplomat, Tariq Fatemi. He later admitted to Dr Arif in an interview that he did not have enough evidence to prove his optimism about Pakistan’s future.

Trying to find a balanced approach towards the issue of Pakistan’s future, she reminds the readers of the forecasts posted on different websites and then refers to a paper by a renowned scholar, Prof C.M. Naim, who has been associated with the Chicago University for long.

Titled ‘Prophecies in South Asian Muslim discourse: the poems of Shah Ne’matullah Vali’, Prof Naim’s paper has appeared in an Indian research journal and he has shown doubts about the genuineness of Shah Ne’matullah’s poems. These poems not only predict that a new era of peace and prosperity is to dawn soon but, according to some interpretations, Pakistan is to become a super power. The prophecies include one that says Islam would be revived and Muslims would conquer India. Prof Naim thinks that these versified predictions, originally in Persian and translated into Urdu, surfaced first during the upheaval of 1857 (to encourage those who were fighting against the British forces) and again when political and economic situation deteriorated in Pakistan. The recent reemergence of these predictions shows, according to him, that all is not well in Pakistan and these verses have been used for ulterior motives in the past too. He alleges that the reemergence of these predictions might have been a work of Pakistan’s armed forces. His paper drew sharp reaction and criticism on websites and blogs.

Some 20 years ago, a booklet titled ‘Azeem paishingoiyaan’ (great predictions) containing Shah Ne’matullah’s predictions was published from Karachi, too, and this writer has a photocopy of that booklet. Even if the verses are genuine, the Urdu translation and the interpretations seem wishful. But attributing a renewed general interest in them to Pakistan’s armed forces is so far-fetched that one wonders how a veteran scholar like C.M. Naim can believe in it. Dr Arif has tried to trace the tradition of these forecasts, and the ones attributed to some other mystics, and then tried to figure out how authentic these poems are and whether there are sources other than Shah Sahib’s predictions about the great future of Pakistan that we all dream of.

She has first established the facts about the life of Shah Ne’matullah Vali (C.1329-1431) with historical sources and says that Shah Sahib was not only a well-known and revered Sufi saint but he founded a ‘silsila’ (an order of dervishes). He was a prolific writer and a poet, too. His divan was published from Tehran but more popular are his verses that contain predictions. She then quotes E.G. Browne, who confirms that Shah Sahib’s poems are “couched in the prophetic strain” and they “still exercise a certain influence”. Browne had visited Shah Ne’matullah’s mausoleum in Kirman and reproduced in his book the famous poem that consists of 50 couplets and contains predictions. Dr Arif also tells us that different versions of the poem containing slightly different text also exist. Prof Naim thinks some couplets were added later. Dr Arif has reproduced the entire poem from authentic sources and has given a gist of its meanings. But there are other poems too that have additional predictions. She then reveals that the authenticity of some of the poems may be questionable.

Dr Arif then narrates the visions and dreams of different Sufis, all of which point to a brilliant future for Pakistan. But the paper finishes with a message for her fellow Pakistanis: we must work hard and show a character that justifies the great Pakistani dream.

Now a few words about the magazine ‘Mabahis’ that carries the article: as it is edited by Dr Firaqi who is known for his meticulousness and a knack for perfection, one can well imagine the high standard that he has set from the very first issue.
Click to expand...

The entire interview is awesome,
From 50 minutes onwards is very relevant to this topic, especially from 51:15

 
T|/|T said:
All the preditions and thinking we r some special ppl is crap. Allah is not bound to do anything by anyone's wishes or predictions. It all depends on our behavior. If we become humble and thankful to Allah and follow his path, Allah will grant us success or else we will be another tale. Read how past nations were destroyed and how humble ppl were raised in stature by Allah.
We Pakistanis have a problem, we think we r special but we r not. We think of others as below our level but reality is we ourselves have fallen low. We produce fake stuff, low standard edible things, low standard baby food, there is milawat in everything. We lie a lot and we dont discriminate between halal and haram. Most of our population would go to a grave and ask the dead for help instead of asking from Allah. We would happily spend money on shrines and useless things but would not pray 5 times a day. We would teach others abt Islam but never fix ourselves. Behai and fahashi is so commom now, remember many nations were destroyed because of fahaashi. We like to be called best muslims by name but are same as kafirs by conduct. Our media is behaya and our moral standards are going down daily. Every sin on face of earth is present in us and we are not bothered and consider ourselves special.
Allah says in Quran, surah mulk(16,17,18)

"Have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed?"

"Or have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not let loose on you a hurricane? But ye shall know the manner of My warning."
"And verily those before them denied, then (see) the manner of My wrath (with them)!"

So have pakistanis taken security from Allah that we think we will not be punished?? The way we celebrate our events is full of arrogance and behayai, from marriages to 14 August. We need to be humble and repent n be thankful to Allah and always ask for forgiveness.
Click to expand...
+ve
 
T|/|T said:
All the preditions and thinking we r some special ppl is crap. Allah is not bound to do anything by anyone's wishes or predictions. It all depends on our behavior. If we become humble and thankful to Allah and follow his path, Allah will grant us success or else we will be another tale. Read how past nations were destroyed and how humble ppl were raised in stature by Allah.
We Pakistanis have a problem, we think we r special but we r not. We think of others as below our level but reality is we ourselves have fallen low. We produce fake stuff, low standard edible things, low standard baby food, there is milawat in everything. We lie a lot and we dont discriminate between halal and haram. Most of our population would go to a grave and ask the dead for help instead of asking from Allah. We would happily spend money on shrines and useless things but would not pray 5 times a day. We would teach others abt Islam but never fix ourselves. Behai and fahashi is so commom now, remember many nations were destroyed because of fahaashi. We like to be called best muslims by name but are same as kafirs by conduct. Our media is behaya and our moral standards are going down daily. Every sin on face of earth is present in us and we are not bothered and consider ourselves special.
Allah says in Quran, surah mulk(16,17,18)

"Have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed?"

"Or have ye taken security from Him Who is in the heaven that He will not let loose on you a hurricane? But ye shall know the manner of My warning."
"And verily those before them denied, then (see) the manner of My wrath (with them)!"

So have pakistanis taken security from Allah that we think we will not be punished?? The way we celebrate our events is full of arrogance and behayai, from marriages to 14 August. We need to be humble and repent n be thankful to Allah and always ask for forgiveness.
Click to expand...

This indeed is the problem. Instead of making ourselves better we waste our time on pointing fingers at others.
 
Chakar The Great said:
BEFORE I say anything about predictions by mystics and saints, please be assured that neither am I one of those who too readily believe in soothsayers, mystical or otherwise, nor do I intend to convince the readers of the validity of divine prophecies about Pakistan’s future. Rather the purpose of this piece is just to share with the readers the contents of an interesting research article on the subject of mystical predictions, which has just appeared in a literary magazine, as the article presents different views with an academic detachment.

Casting shadows of doubts over Pakistan’s future has been a favourite pastime of many ever since the country came into being and there has never been any dearth of pessimists who love to draw bleakest scenarios of Pakistan’s future. The so-called think-tanks in the West had even predicted, in their ‘research-based studies’, total chaos in the country; Pakistan becoming a failed state or even its disintegration in the first decade of the 21st century. A country — the most allied ally of the West — that came into being against all odds and survived against all odds has yet again managed to survive beyond the deadline given by our western well-wishers. Of late, some Western scholars have become more careful and they talk about only the near-future of Pakistan, say five to seven years, and are kind enough to vaguely say that in the near-future the country might “muddle along” in the same manner as it did in the past.

But, strangely enough, there have always been some people, no matter how few, who have had great confidence in this country’s future, which has generally not looked much promising. Aside from the common Pakistanis, the bunch of these optimists includes some mystics and saints, too. Interestingly, some websites have been posting predictions about the country’s bright future on the basis of prophecies attributed to a Sufi saint named Shah Ne’matullah Vali. Shah Sahib’s ‘qaseedas’, or panegyric odes, that have recently become hugely popular again are known for their prophecies. Just as symbolic and as arcane as the predictions by Nostradamus, these poems forecast, according to some interpreters, among other things, Pakistan would not only become a prosperous country but one that leads the world. Sounds too good to be true? Well, maybe.

Mumtaz Mufti, one of Urdu’s prominent fiction writers of the 20th century, had turned to mysticism during the latter part of his life. Mufti Sahib had always been very confident about Pakistan’s bright future. His optimism was based on some spiritual experiences and prophecies of some Sufis he was in touch with. When Dr Najeeba Arif, International Islamic University’s faculty member, carried out a research on Mumtaz Mufti’s life and works, the mystical dimension of Mufti’s life, too, came under her probe. In her doctoral dissertation, Dr Arif had brought under discussion this aspect of his life and works. Now she has come up with a research paper that discusses the prophecies about Pakistan based on Shah Ne’matullah Vali’s predictions.

Published in ‘Mabahis’, a new Urdu research journal from Lahore and edited by Prof (Dr) Tehseen Firaqi, the paper’s title can be translated as ‘Pakistan: a dreamland for South Asian Muslims or a failed state, a recent scholastic perspective of Shah Ne’matullah Vali’s prophecies’.

She begins her paper with some deliberations of the international conference on Pakistan held in Italy in May 2010. Delegates from 16 countries participated in the conference and all but one said that Pakistan was a failed state. The only delegate who disagreed with the view was a former diplomat, Tariq Fatemi. He later admitted to Dr Arif in an interview that he did not have enough evidence to prove his optimism about Pakistan’s future.

Trying to find a balanced approach towards the issue of Pakistan’s future, she reminds the readers of the forecasts posted on different websites and then refers to a paper by a renowned scholar, Prof C.M. Naim, who has been associated with the Chicago University for long.

Titled ‘Prophecies in South Asian Muslim discourse: the poems of Shah Ne’matullah Vali’, Prof Naim’s paper has appeared in an Indian research journal and he has shown doubts about the genuineness of Shah Ne’matullah’s poems. These poems not only predict that a new era of peace and prosperity is to dawn soon but, according to some interpretations, Pakistan is to become a super power. The prophecies include one that says Islam would be revived and Muslims would conquer India. Prof Naim thinks that these versified predictions, originally in Persian and translated into Urdu, surfaced first during the upheaval of 1857 (to encourage those who were fighting against the British forces) and again when political and economic situation deteriorated in Pakistan. The recent reemergence of these predictions shows, according to him, that all is not well in Pakistan and these verses have been used for ulterior motives in the past too. He alleges that the reemergence of these predictions might have been a work of Pakistan’s armed forces. His paper drew sharp reaction and criticism on websites and blogs.

Some 20 years ago, a booklet titled ‘Azeem paishingoiyaan’ (great predictions) containing Shah Ne’matullah’s predictions was published from Karachi, too, and this writer has a photocopy of that booklet. Even if the verses are genuine, the Urdu translation and the interpretations seem wishful. But attributing a renewed general interest in them to Pakistan’s armed forces is so far-fetched that one wonders how a veteran scholar like C.M. Naim can believe in it. Dr Arif has tried to trace the tradition of these forecasts, and the ones attributed to some other mystics, and then tried to figure out how authentic these poems are and whether there are sources other than Shah Sahib’s predictions about the great future of Pakistan that we all dream of.

She has first established the facts about the life of Shah Ne’matullah Vali (C.1329-1431) with historical sources and says that Shah Sahib was not only a well-known and revered Sufi saint but he founded a ‘silsila’ (an order of dervishes). He was a prolific writer and a poet, too. His divan was published from Tehran but more popular are his verses that contain predictions. She then quotes E.G. Browne, who confirms that Shah Sahib’s poems are “couched in the prophetic strain” and they “still exercise a certain influence”. Browne had visited Shah Ne’matullah’s mausoleum in Kirman and reproduced in his book the famous poem that consists of 50 couplets and contains predictions. Dr Arif also tells us that different versions of the poem containing slightly different text also exist. Prof Naim thinks some couplets were added later. Dr Arif has reproduced the entire poem from authentic sources and has given a gist of its meanings. But there are other poems too that have additional predictions. She then reveals that the authenticity of some of the poems may be questionable.

Dr Arif then narrates the visions and dreams of different Sufis, all of which point to a brilliant future for Pakistan. But the paper finishes with a message for her fellow Pakistanis: we must work hard and show a character that justifies the great Pakistani dream.

Now a few words about the magazine ‘Mabahis’ that carries the article: as it is edited by Dr Firaqi who is known for his meticulousness and a knack for perfection, one can well imagine the high standard that he has set from the very first issue.
Click to expand...
Let me write here something.
When Muslims conquered Persian empire and Roman territories, Muslims of that time were following justice more than these two nations.
When Mongols attacked Muslim areas, and conquered them, Mongols were following justice more than Muslims. Then when britishers kicked Muslims in Subcontinent, britishers of that time were following justice more than moghals.
Now, when I look at the govts and people in power, in both Pakistan and India, I see exact replica both sides. Aik haramipan ki dastan hai donon taraf.
I say, if any side wants to conquer other side, just follow justice in your society, and then see, how nature fights on your side.
Naimatullah or no Naimatullah, doesn't matter.
 

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