How China Made Japan Irrelevant!!!

[Shotgunner51]

India is too far away from Japan.

Looking from Japan's POV, I suppose India or even resources-rich Africa or not is irrelevant to the question. Let's analyse Japan's situation.

At the peak of its time, in 1985 the Plaza Accord changed the course of Japan from GDP-driven (production on its sovereign soil) to massive overseas economic expansion (oversea production), making Japan the No. 1 creditor nation since 1992 till now, 24 years in a row. At the end of 2013 Japan's net external assets was a mind-boggling $3.2 trillion, over 50% more than those held by China, the world's No. 2 creditor nation.

Despite ceding market share to fast catching-ups in SK (e.g. Hynix, Samsung) and Taiwan (e.g. TSMC) on the electronics since 1980's, Japan maintained a huge global lead in many other top-notched techs from robotics, advanced materials, optics, precision tooling to large-scale NC machines. Japan is actually well-positioned in the integration of the East Asia manufacturing hub, holding critical upstream positions in the whole supply chain. While being an upstream component superpower i.e. "Industry 3.0~4.0", Japan also maintains lead in several consumer products e.g. Toyota with its globalized production, the No 1 auto company both in volume and revenue.

Relatively speaking Taiwan and SK corps were integrated much deeper with China, which is both the bulk of the supply chain, as well as a market. An example would be the battle between PDP and LCD, technological factor contributed only partly to the results as witnessed today. Another example is SONY's retreat from consumer mobiles, and "pivot" to core components.

Noting Japan's unique positioning in the global supply chain, the future of Japan will continue to rely on closer integration with China, which is both the bulk of the supply chain, as well as a potential market. The well established, full-spectrum, continental-sized industrial base of China offers huge opportunities to Japanese industrial techs. On consumption, despite the market is already huge, its potential is even bigger noting China's annual domestic savings is an unusual 50% of GDP and world No. 1 in absolute size (the abnormally high savings, and low consumption of Chinese is a key reason for currently low GDP figure). Compared to industrial techs, due to political tension, Japan has been trailing its peers in Taiwan and Korea in tapping Chinese consumer market.

Other than China, Japanese goods will continue to rely on markets from the developed countries, either directly, through its offshore manufacturing assets, or through peer supply chain in East Asia.

In extremely low GDP countries, consumption potential is weak hence less attractive to hi-end Japanese consumer products. Furthermore if infrastructure and industrial base is underdeveloped, it would be difficult for hi-end Japanese techs or industrial goods to make any major inroads. Though there are still lucrative opportunities, say infrastructure export, and machinery for industry 1.0, especially for countries with stimulus packages and beginning to industrialize (e.g. Pakistan), or countries rich in natural resources (e.g. Africa, South America).

 

[Economic superpower]

Looking from Japan's POV, I suppose India or even resources-rich Africa or not is irrelevant to the question. Let's analyse Japan's situation.

At the peak of its time, in 1985 the Plaza Accord changed the course of Japan from GDP-driven (production on its sovereign soil) to massive overseas economic expansion (oversea production), making Japan the No. 1 creditor nation since 1992 till now, 24 years in a row. At the end of 2013 Japan's net external assets was a mind-boggling $3.2 trillion, over 50% more than those held by China, the world's No. 2 creditor nation.

Despite ceding market share to fast catching-ups in SK (e.g. Hynix, Samsung) and Taiwan (e.g. TSMC) on the electronics since 1980's, Japan maintained a huge global lead in many other top-notched techs from robotics, advanced materials, optics, precision tooling to large-scale NC machines. Japan is actually well-positioned in the integration of the East Asia manufacturing hub, holding critical upstream positions in the whole supply chain. While being an upstream component superpower i.e. "Industry 3.0~4.0", Japan also maintains lead in several consumer products e.g. Toyota with its globalized production, the No 1 auto company both in volume and revenue.

Relatively speaking Taiwan and SK corps were integrated much deeper with China, which is both the bulk of the supply chain, as well as a market. An example would be the battle between PDP and LCD, technological factor contributed only partly to the results as witnessed today. Another example is SONY's retreat from consumer mobiles, and "pivot" to core components.

Noting Japan's unique positioning in the global supply chain, the future of Japan will continue to rely on closer integration with China, which is both the bulk of the supply chain, as well as a potential market. The well established, full-spectrum, continental-sized industrial base of China offers huge opportunities to Japanese industrial techs. On consumption, despite the market is already huge, its potential is even bigger noting China's annual domestic savings is an unusual 50% of GDP and world No. 1 in absolute size (the abnormally high savings, and low consumption of Chinese is a key reason for currently low GDP figure). Compared to industrial techs, due to political tension, Japan has been trailing its peers in Taiwan and Korea in tapping Chinese consumer market.

Other than China, Japanese goods will continue to rely on markets from the developed countries, either directly or through overseas supply chain in East Asia.

In extremely low GDP countries, consumption potential is weak hence less attractive to hi-end Japanese consumer products. Furthermore if infrastructure and industrial base is underdeveloped, it would be difficult for hi-end Japanese techs or industrial goods to make any major inroads. Though there are still lucrative opportunities, say infrastructure export, and machinery for industry 1.0, especially for countries with stimulus packages and beginning to industrialize (e.g. Pakistan), or countries rich in natural resources (e.g. Africa, South America).

You grossly overrated Japan. Japan is irrelevant.

 

[SAS]

Chinese and their newfound economic might! Seems to have got to their head. Where's the Confucian humility and discipline?

I just have one statistic to mention:

GDP per capita (Nominal):
Japan: $38,529
China: $6,626

 

[rcrmj]

You grossly overrated Japan. Japan is irrelevant.

neither overrate or underrate, what he said is a fact, none of those highly developed countries are irrelevant in world stage, they always play an important part somewhere from economy to technology, from culture to geopolitics etc```

 

[cnleio]

Chinese and their newfound economic might! Seems to have got to their head. Where's the Confucian humility and discipline?

I just have one statistic to mention:

GDP per capita (Nominal):
Japan: $38,529
China: $6,626

I remember end of 2014 China GDP per capita reached 8,000 USD ...

 

[seven7seven]

Even though China has nearly reached the summit of being the biggest economy in the World (imo it already is when you factor in China's suppressed Yuan and USA's inflated Dollar), China has barely reached a fraction of its potential and capacity. Providing China do not follow the flawed path of the West and give away all their manufacturing to line a few rich people's pockets and keep investing in education, infrastructure and innovations that improve people's lives, then China will become an economy, and eventually, a military force many times the size of its nearest rival, whomever that may be. Of course, I am talking about decades down the road.

Chinese people are the most industrious and determined people in the World. Taiwan and Hong Kong has shown just what a few million Chinese under the right economic environment can achieve. China is over a billion of the same hard-working people and we are now seeing what that potential can translate into. China was kicked around and robbed by every major Western power and Japan and even though I think we should let bygones be bygones, China should never forget that if they let Western infiltrators and internal traitors weaken them again, they can be toppled if they allow themselves to become weak. Only take the good elements from the West but discard their trash and immoral culture. Chinese and Confucian culture should never be abandoned or forgotten. Never become lazy and complacent like Westerners.

 

[Economic superpower]

Chinese and their newfound economic might! Seems to have got to their head. Where's the Confucian humility and discipline?

I just have one statistic to mention:

GDP per capita (Nominal):
Japan: $38,529
China: $6,626

As I have said in the opening post, per capita is one of the most useless measures to compare national strength.

China has far surpassed Japan in national strength. It's not even close.

neither overrate or underrate, what he said is a fact, none of those highly developed countries are irrelevant in world stage, they always play an important part somewhere from economy to technology, from culture to geopolitics etc```

Hmmmm alright I'll give you that Japan is not completely irrelevant.

But I stand by my statement that China has surpassed Japan in national strength.

There is no way that Japan can claim to be more powerful or influential than China on the world stage.

Japan has a few technological areas they still have a tiny lead, but that will disappear within the next few years.

 

[UKBengali]

@Economic superpower :

You are right that China is currently more powerful than Japan.

Still we need to take into account that China is not yet rich or technologically advanced enough to even be an independent power like Russia is. China cannot ride out sanctions from the West yet but that will change soon.

 

[livingdead]

japan has big cultural influence on world too... weirdest of porns, game shows and animation.. checkmate china.

 

[SAS]

As I have said in the opening post, per capita is one of the most useless measures to compare national strength.

China has far surpassed Japan in national strength. It's not even close.

Not sure which parameter is this "National Strength" that you're talking about but yeah sure.

Lol Going by your logic, if you think GDP per capita doesn't matter, then India's "National Strength" is higher than many European countries. But living standards are not even close.

And I guess that's the difference between the approach of "People's Republic" and Japanese democracy. One strives for "National Strength" while the other strives for individual freedom.

 

[Keel]

Most if not all of the countries in the chart of the OP lean towards the US-Japan axis for military/world politics
They only go for where money is

Dont be delusional like self proclaiming supa powa in our neighbouring country

Also for Japan worshipper(s), keep the "role model" to yourself (-ves) please. It just makes me puke!
Japan as a developed country can be used for our reference, like other nations

Ancient Chinese Art of Paper Folding

 

[Economic superpower]

Not sure which parameter is this "National Strength" that you're talking about but yeah sure.

Lol Going by your logic, if you think GDP per capita doesn't matter, then India's "National Strength" is higher than many European countries. But living standards are not even close.

And I guess that's the difference between the approach of "People's Republic" and Japanese democracy. One strives for "National Strength" while the other strives for individual freedom.

National strength is about economic, financial, technological and military power in absolute terms.

Per capita is irrelevant because power is measured by absolute size.

Australia and U.S. have similar per capita, yet America is far stronger and influential than Australia. That's because American population is much bigger than Australia. America has bigger economy, bigger savings pool, bigger manufacturer, bigger consumer market, bigger exporter & importer, bigger investor, bigger financier, bigger aid provider, bigger stock market, bigger everything. Per capita is meaningless when measuring the capabilities of a country.

In per capita, China is way down the list at 90th but there not 90 countries stronger than China.

Per capita measures living standards, and in that Japan is richer than China. But global power is measured by absolute power, not per capita. Just like how in Olympics, the TOTAL number of golds determines the winner, not good medals per capita.

To say Japan is stronger than China shows how ignorant you are.

@Economic superpower :

You are right that China is currently more powerful than Japan.

Still we need to take into account that China is not yet rich or technologically advanced enough to even be an independent power like Russia is. China cannot ride out sanctions from the West yet but that will change soon.

Yes I agree with your points.

I claimed that China is more powerful than Japan despite Japan's technological advantages in certain areas.

 

[Nike]

Japan is still and will be always relevant for many ASEAN countries, as their commitment to investing in manufacturing industry, energy and global chain retailer and banking system is still unbeatable and been number one in the region for decades. For many ASEAN countries China realization investment is still low compared to Japan, yes China has became the largest trading partner for many ASEAN countries like Malaysia and Vietnam, but the relation is still not developing much further than that, meanwhile Japan has a more evidence presence in daily life of ordinary peoples in many ASEAN countries.

 

[scionoftheindus]

Standard of living of people is what is important; what is the use of being a super power when we can't give proper sanitation, infrastructure, education, security to our people.I would rather want living standards of my country improved than becoming a super power .

 

[Shotgunner51]

@Economic superpower :

You are right that China is currently more powerful than Japan.

Still we need to take into account that China is not yet rich or technologically advanced enough to even be an independent power like Russia is. China cannot ride out sanctions from the West yet but that will change soon.

Yes bro, Russia is a resources-super-rich country, and thus can weather through difficult times as long as they can cash-in the perpetual external demand for the energy and commodities.

The West is different, first of all it's getting splintered. Germany, just like Japan of a smaller scale, or bigger version of South Korea or Taiwan, will continue to offer the rest of world its unique techs and products, hence will well-position itself in the global value chain. For the rest of EU (except Germany) I am a bit skeptical, apparently they have to balance between their consumption (and social welfare) and production (to be competitive with Japan/Germany etc.), devalue their currency, otherwise the debt-financed model might need to be fixed by another Marshall Plan. US has unique advantages, say as long as the dollar remains global reserve currency, and that KSA takes only green-backs for oil (till their last drop of oil), US will be fine with whatever economic model they adopt, even a debt-driven consumption model will work just as smoothly.

While US, Japan, SK and Germany will continue to be highly relevant (though for different reasons), other regions are likely to gain much more relevance in terms of importance as markets, or as production bases. ASEAN is growing fast, so are MENA, Sub-Saharan Africa, CEE (Central & Eastern Europe), Central Asia, South Asia, South/Latin America.

By now 2/3 of the world has China as top trading partner, China will continue its current path to diversity its trade, investment, and maintain steadfast speed in domestic building (2/3 of China is yet to be built). The world is a very big place, the so-called West is not just splintered, but is just only part of the world.