How Afghanistan Defeated the Soviet Union (DW Documentary)

[Gangetic]

Obviously I could be wrong but:
Wasn't the Soviet Afghan war just a Soviet make work and stimulate the economy project?
Same thing as the US Vietnam war was for the US. Have you looked at how much US equipment was destroyed and soldiers were killed in the Vietnam war? it must be 10-20x what the Russians lost in their Afghan adventure.
Both tried the Zorg model from the Fifth Element...break the glass and look at how all these people have things to do now.

If Vietnam didn't destroy the US how could the much smaller Afghan war collapse the USSR?
Didn't the USSR collapse/break up due to a power struggle coup (a bloodless civil war)?
To Russian officials Afghans would be just a bunch of glasses to break or stones to break Russian glasses.

The USSR collapsed mainly because its economy slowed compared to Europe/USA. They were sanctioned and cut off from the rest of the world. Compare the then East Germany to West Germany. I doubt the Afghan war had any large effect on its economy.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

The whole "Soviets wanted Balochistan" is the dumbest argument I've heard. No evidence to suggest this. Pakistan would be in a better position today if it didn't collaborate with the Americans in Afghanistan.

Read, start with The great Game... game of two empires.
Understand, geography... Russian Empire and subsequently Soviet Union fleets were stuck in a series of bottlenecks, Baltic, Black and sea of Japan the last one thousands of miles away from Russian heartland. In the arctic, year round navigation only became possible 30 odd years ago by retreating glaciers and with the help of ice breakers besides infrastructure issues.

Once done you can check out papers on Soviet quest for warm water ports.

 

[INS_Vikrant]

All of the historical warriors that Afghans shamelessly claim as their own were Turkish. Even the Mughal dynasty was mongo-turkish.

I don't thinks any afghan consider mughals as their own. They constantly fought several rebellions against mughal occupation of their land.

Obviously I could be wrong but:
Wasn't the Soviet Afghan war just a Soviet make work and stimulate the economy project?
Same thing as the US Vietnam war was for the US. Have you looked at how much US equipment was destroyed and soldiers were killed in the Vietnam war? it must be 10-20x what the Russians lost in their Afghan adventure.
Both tried the Zorg model from the Fifth Element...break the glass and look at how all these people have things to do now.

If Vietnam didn't destroy the US how could the much smaller Afghan war collapse the USSR?
Didn't the USSR collapse/break up due to a power struggle coup (a bloodless civil war)?
To Russian officials Afghans would be just a bunch of glasses to break or stones to break Russian glasses.

It did played a slight role although it's being over exaggerated here

 

[INS_Vikrant]

The USSR collapsed mainly because its economy slowed compared to Europe/USA. They were sanctioned and cut off from the rest of the world

Also they were drawn into several expensive arms and technological race with the West that they could ill afford, and also trying to economically support many failing communist countries all over the globe to maintain their influence. Last nail came with the division in their communist Party caused by Gorbachevs reforms.

 

[Titanium100]

Their economy was poor and they used to much resources on the war and it became much tougher then they initially thought using alot of hardware, manpower and wealth. It became like a black-hole. This was always the case in Afghanistan due to the terrain it was always a black-hole

 

[CrazyZ]

The USSR collapsed mainly because its economy slowed compared to Europe/USA. They were sanctioned and cut off from the rest of the world. Compare the then East Germany to West Germany. I doubt the Afghan war had any large effect on its economy.

Soviet economy would have continued to jug along inefficiently as it did for decades. Soviets collapsed because the young elites in USSR no longer believed in the cause and wanted a change. Some of this doubt started to grow due to the lies and problems associated with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan that the old guard of Soviets initiated.

they used to much resources on the war and it became much tougher then they initially thought using alot of hardware, manpower and wealth. It became like a black-hole. This was always the case in Afghanistan due to the terrain it was always a black-hole

Shockingly, the American experience was almost identical.

 

[PakPrinciples]

The whole "Soviets wanted Balochistan" is the dumbest argument I've heard. No evidence to suggest this. Pakistan would be in a better position today if it didn't collaborate with the Americans in Afghanistan.

oth were disasters. What did Pakistan get for helping

Completely untrue, I've written on this before.

The USSR was a major source of economic and military AID and hardware for India which included the licensed manufacture of the Mig-21 not to mention a source of trade that bolstered their economy and by 1972 became it's largest trading partner.

So you're telling me that eliminating India's primary source of revenue, military hardware/technology and scientific cooperation was not to our benefit?

Furthermore, the USSR already waged war on us starting in the 60s:

• The "Pushtoonistan" movement was a creation of the USSR (Khrushchev himself openly supported it in his March 4 1960 visit to Kabul) and it's allied government in Kabul in an attempt to divide Pakistani's along fictional differences to eventually to rob us of our culture, place control of our lands in the hands of warlords/soviets, and have us deviate from Islam which lead to the 1960 Soviet Afghan invasion of Bajaur
• The USSR is responsible for the formation of groups like the BLA that tapped into Ulfat Nazim's Marxist-Leninist "World Baloch Organization" as confirmed by Stephen and Carol McC. Pastner ("Adaptations to state level politics by Southern Baloch" in "Pakistan the Long View" 1977, pg. 136) and by and Lt. Gen Abdul Qayyum ("Balochistans Commotion: What is the truth?" in Nawa-e-Waqt, May 1, 2009).

They were literally following the words of Tsar Peter I who specifically writes in his own will advising Russia:

"To approach as near as possible to Constantinople and India [he is actually referencing Pakistan during the Mughal Empire] whoever governs there will be the true sovereign of the world. Consequently, excite continual wars, not only in Turkey, but in Persia And, in the decadence of Persia, Penetrate as far as the Persian Gulf advance as far as India." (Clause IX)​

The USSR's needed control of warm sea ports and important straits to ensure unhindered trade and projection of it's navy/military. Russia's northern ports were locked frozen during the winter, the Turks controlled their access to the Aegean/Mediterranean Sea via the Bosphorus and Dardenelles (which lead to the Turkish straits crisis between the USSR and Turkey), Iran denied them access to the Persian gulf (which lead to the USSR's direct support of Iraq in it's war with Iran during the 80s) while Pakistan denied them unfettered access to the Arabian Sea (leading to the eventual need to invade Afghanistan and their continued support for India).

Now move forward in time when the Soviet navy directly intervened by assisting in the blockade of the Bay of Bengal after the signing of the "Indo-Soviet Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation" in 1971 Article IX of which specifically states that:

"... In the event of either being subjected to an attack or a threat thereof, the High Contracting Parties shall immediately enter into mutual consultations in order to remove such threat and to take appropriate effective measures to ensure peace and the security of their countries."​

Their intervention is confirmed by former Russian Naval Commander Vladimir Kruglyakov:

Would they have invaded Pakistan?

Considering that the USSR invaded neighboring Iran alongside the British (who coincidentally used Indian soldiers) during WWII and threats of war against Turkey that lead to the Turkish Strait Crisis you think they wouldn't?

Even the lead up to the Afghan invasion and how they orchestrated it only confirms that they would have eventually targeted Pakistan.

The USSR's plans were confirmed when Soviet troops who were earlier sent in to “protect” Amin carried out his assassination as orchestrated by Soviet leadership. This is confirmed by a personal memorandum Andropov (who would become the next Secretary General of the CPSU) wrote to Brezhnev (the Secretary General of the CPSU at the time) in December 1979 where he outlines the plot to overthrow Hafizullah Amin who he stated had become a danger to Soviet influence in Afghanistan citing that things were getting worse for them since the death of Nur Muhammed Taraki and they'd been in contact with anti-Amin Afghan Communists who were going to setup a “new party” and “state organs” (i.e. a puppet government) but required direct Soviet military involvement which Andropov approved.

We should have gone to war with the USSR long before the 80s especially considering The USSR was laying the groundwork for their invasion since the 60s.

This argument against Pakistan's intervention in Afghanistan is made by crazy liberal/secular nutjobs and terrorists that were in bed with the Soviet Union and they're the same nutjobs that push the case against Pakistan having a nuclear deterrent or ever having pursued one.

For anyone stupid enough to think the US was ever going to military intervene to help us particularly, considering they had already betrayed us in both '65 and '71, then review the cases of Ukraine and Georgia today where they literally stood by and watched while their "allies" were invaded and torn apart by a foreign aggressor.

In the case of Ukraine both Russia and the US even formally agreed to defend and/or not attack the nation after it abandoned its nuclear program as per the Budapest Memorandum signed in 1994.

No, we were right for getting involved and I thank Gen. Zia Ul Haq for having the fortitude to defend the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, our peoples and our freedom from the Soviet menace and good riddance to that empire of evil.

It largely contributed to the disintegration of USSR and made USA the main super power for about 30 years.

That was probably the one major drawback to assisting in the downfall of the Soviet Union.

By allowing the US to become the sole hegemonic superpower they did unspeakably cruel and destructive things across the world.

We'll correct this alongside allies China and Turkey.

Bad documentary. Map of Kashmir is wrong. Exaggerates the significance of Ahmad Shah Massoud.

I caught that too, wasn't pleased, and it demonstrates the thinking of radical secular/liberal nutjobs in nations like Germany and their hatred for Muslim nations like Pakistan and Turkey.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

good mujahideen?

 

[El Sidd]

Soviet Russia defeated Soviet Russia.

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

This video seems to be more from the Soviet point of view, which we don’t hear as often. Also interesting to hear The last Soviet Commander’s point of view; Gromov.

to me it looks more of a French point of view which has altered today in accordance to their relationship with India. Listen what they say at 25:35 apart from all the wrong maps shown at different occasions.
Funny Ahmed shah massoud spoke French..
And check out that kid wearing PTM hat at 28:54

 

[Kamikaze Pilot]

Bad documentary. Map of Kashmir is wrong. Exaggerates the significance of Ahmad Shah Massoud.

It is Russian. What do you expect?

- PRTP GWD

 

[CrazyZ]

That was probably the one major drawback to assisting in the downfall of the Soviet Union.

By allowing the US to become the sole hegemonic superpower they did unspeakably cruel and destructive things across the world.

We'll correct this alongside allies China and Turkey.

Things are coming full circle. USA crowning as the sole super power started after the Soviet defeat in Afghanistan. USA giving that mantle up had a big contribution from wars in Afghanistan and other parts of the ME where it squandered trillions in resources. Imagine if USA had invested that amount of resources into infrastructure, peaceful technology or civilian industry. Its economy would have towered over China's. Most perverse of all USA went into massive debt to China to fund these wars.

Obama regime spent so much on war in Afghanistan that it didn't have the resources (or interest) to replenish stockpiles of ventilators , facemasks, or other medical supplies. Today more Americans die every day from corona virus then died on 9/11. Talk about wrong priorities...Its very reminiscent of the Soviets that focused on military spending above all else.

It is Russian. What do you expect?

I think its French rubbish.

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Mujahideen had a very tough long fight against the Soviet Union

On the other hand Soviet Union was very very brutal to the poor Afghans

I always say there was 2 events during the 1980s which were catastrophic for this area

Fall of Shah of Iran + Soviet Union invasion of Afghanistan

had these two events not happened I wonder where we would have been

The Iranian democratic government was overthrown by the CIA in the 1950's and the extremely corrupt shah of Iran was installed for the next three decades by the USA which directly correlated to the coming of the Iranian regime, so if you want to have a thought provoking what if scenario at-least start from the correct chain of events.

 

[PakPrinciples]

Imagine if USA had invested that amount of resources into infrastructure, peaceful technology or civilian industry. Its economy would have towered over China's. Most perverse of all USA went into massive debt to China to fund these wars.

Basically the same thing that Jack Ma stated during a World Economic Forum discussion:

to me it looks more of a French point of view

It is Russian. What do you expect?

I think its French rubbish.

DW (Deutsche Welle) is a German news channel.

 

[CrazyZ]

Basically the same thing that Jack Ma stated during a World Economic Forum discussion:

His points are correct. This is where things are deviating between the USA and USSR. USA elites have spun the problems as caused by brown and yellow peoples and not their strategy.... exploiting bias's in American society. In USSR, the young elites blamed the old soviet elites and concepts, leading to its downfall. USA elites are better at controlling the masses then the Soviets were. Granting the illusion of free will is more effective at control then authoritarianism......(I think that's the plot of the Matrix movies) .