Hong Kong’s small flats ‘to get even smaller’, hitting quality of life

[dy1022]

Hmmmmm, I have a small garden and a parking place = 750-800 sq ft ???

 

[jhungary]

Very true, I'm lucky because of my family. I have alots of friends work really hard for an apartment, where they either work like a slave or wait for a public housing. Most of young people have to rely on their parent to pay their down payment. You mother was one of the smart people in the old day to invest in the property, since buying property was relatively cheap at that time and the fact was not many people brought apartment in the 70s until the rising housing price in the late 80s to 90s.

Well, I didn't have to ask my mother to buy my first property. but I work like a jack and have money here and there before I can afford my down payment, but then my first home is in Australia, and my home have a 15 meters street frontage. I probably will never buy a home in Hong Kong, if and when I get back to Hong Kong, I will probably live in the place I share with my siblings. I found that there are not much of a reason to waste money on a 380 sq ft flat

My mother is a very typical Chinese housewife and what she believe in is we are not simply buying a house, but a home. That is why she insist that should be taken care of first, and make sure we have a home everywhere we stayed (We have homes in the US, Australia, UK, Hong Kong and China)

Still, she missed some chance to earn big. Before she bought the house in Shek Kip Mei, she was eyeing an apartment in Yau Yet Tsuen up in Kowloon Tong (which is just 2 blocks away) which she didn't buy in the end because that would mean she have to take up a loan instead of paying off the flat in one go. Had she taken up a lone that place would have made her a lot richer.

She made the same mistake again when we sold the flat in Shek Kep Mei, back then we are looking to buy a new block in Tuen Mun and she have the option to mortgage the flat in Shek Kep Mei or sell it outright, she choose the latter instead of the former and ended up losing millions of dollars.

 

[bbccdd1470]

I see. I was wondering whether HKers are willing to endure longer commuting times with cheaper housing in areas further away, but it seems like these areas are quite out of reach too unless your family can help provide some assistance.

Can public housing in HK be sold to a third party and therefore making a profit?

Usually the North of NT is very undeveloped and basically a farmland or just remote area. Some of the better developed land there belong to the "Aboriginal" that will cost a great deal of money to buy it back for the government. As far as I know some of the wealthy people will buy a villa there due to the more natural and less crowded environment. But since they already have a financial mean, living there is rather a personal choice.

If I remember right, since 2005 the government allows the purchase of a public housing by its own occupant at a very cheap price. However, the price is going up quick and it is not that cheap now. Of course they can sell it to a third party once the apartment is being purchased. However, the price of a previous PH "public housing" is relatively low compared to a private apartment due to the condition of the building, the people who live there and the location. The main question is why would they want to sell it as they are enjoying the cheap maintenance fee and a larger space to live. Since you won't able to find a same size apartment at the same price that you sold in the private market, the private apartment is just more expensive.

 

[jhungary]

Usually the North of NT is very undeveloped and basically a farmland or just remote area. Some of the better developed land there belong to the "Aboriginal" that will cost a great deal of money to buy it back for the government. As far as I know some of the middle class to upper class people will buy a villa there due to the more natural and less crowded environment. But since they already have a financial mean, living there is rather a personal choice.
If I remember right, since 2005 the government allows the purchase of a public housing by its own occupant at a very cheap price. However, the price is going up quick and it is not that cheap now. Of course they can sell it to a third party once the apartment is being purchased. However, the price of a previous PH "public housing" is relatively low compared to a private apartment due to the condition of the building, the people who live there and the location. The main question is why would they want to sell it as they are enjoying the cheap maintenance fee and a larger space to live. Since you won't able to find a same size apartment at the same price that you sold in the private market, the private apartment is just more expensive.

Most of the time, "Public Housing" benefit the wrong people in Hong Kong, a lot of story of these people going on vacation due to the saving (They pay around HKD$2000 a month rent to the government for a 2 bedder compare to $7000 if you want to rent outside...) Most of these people did not deserve a place in Public Housing. I know, I used to live in Shek Kip Mie, next door to a big Public Housing Estate, in fact, I think 80% of all Shek Kip Mei is public housing, you have Tai Hang Sai Tsuen, Nam Shan Tsuen, and Shek Kip Mei estate.

I would go on and say, almost all Government scheme on levitating housing problem in Hong Kong did not work. Home Ownership Scheme (居屋) is another abused system. My brother actually was allotted a HOS flat quota somewhere in late 1990s which he applied out of fun (He was just going to college back then) and he didn't even qualified for nor can afford at that time. The random allocation mean everyone have a chance, regardless of whether or not you need one, and in most case, you don't need.

 

[Mista]

The main question is why would they want to sell it as they are enjoying the cheap maintenance fee and a larger space to live. Since you won't able to find a same size apartment at the same price that you sold in the private market, the private apartment is just more expensive.

It's quite common though in Singapore where people sell their public housing (HDB) to purchase a private apartments (condominiums) which I don't understand sometimes. HDBs are much much more spacious than condominiums at the same price. Maybe because they earning comfortably and they want their properties as a form of investment (you can't own multiple HDBs) rather than just simply having a place to live. Or maybe because HDBs have a 99 year lease while private apartments are freehold.

 

[bbccdd1470]

Most of the time, "Public Housing" benefit the wrong people in Hong Kong, a lot of story of these people going on vacation due to the saving (They pay around HKD$2000 a month rent to the government for a 2 bedder compare to $7000 if you want to rent outside...) Most of these people did not deserve a place in Public Housing. I know, I used to live in Shek Kip Mie, next door to a big Public Housing Estate, in fact, I think 80% of all Shek Kip Mei is public housing, you have Tai Hang Sai Tsuen, Nam Shan Tsuen, and Shek Kip Mei estate.

You are spot on, those "富戶" are the luckiest people in HK, and some of them even own a car. This is very hard to evict them since they are smart enough to make sure their asset and income are not over the limit, and some of them already brought the apartment for themselves at the cheap price. I think the policy have changed a bit, few of the 富戶 are now paying the rent at the market price, but still many of them are just paying double per month.

Home Ownership Scheme (居屋) is another abused system.

I think HOS is very hard to get due to a lots of applicants, specially for the "白表". HOS today mainly serves the purpose for the "綠表" to switch their public housing for a HOS. If I remember right, the quota percentage of 綠表 is much higher than "白表", so they have higher chance to get an apartment at cheaper price (no 補地價). Still there are requirements for the applicant, like an income and asset limits with owning no property, so not everyone can apply it.

 

[jhungary]

You are spot on, those "富戶" are the luckiest people in HK, and some of them even own a car. This is very hard to evict them since they are smart enough to make sure their asset and income are not over the limit, and some of them already brought the apartment for themselves at the cheap price. I think the policy have changed a little, few of the 富戶 are now paying the rent at the market price, but still many of them are just paying double per month.

Well, a lot of these people are very cleaver and not getting caught, and I don't think the government wanted to do something to catch these people to begin with. At least not until I left Hong Kong....

Most of these people 富戶 did not have their name on the rent, mostly their parent or grandparent, and since the contract already established in the 70s, 80s when their parent were actually poor, they got to hide their own limit and continue living in public housing.

What Hong Kong government need in my opinion is to have a City wide survey on everyone living in Public Housing, like they do with Tax Auditing. But I don't actually see those thing being done.

I think HOS is very hard to get due to a lots of applicants, specially for the "白表". HOS today mainly serves the purpose for the "綠表" to switch their public housing for a HOS. If I remember right, the quota percentage of 綠表 is much higher than "白表", so they have higher chance to get an apartment at cheaper price (no 補地價). Still there are requirements for the applicant, like an income and asset limits with owning no property, so not everyone can apply it.

White bill is for non-public housing occupant, in my opinion, should not have existed in the first place. Those scheme should only be helping people who are in need, not for everyone. Even people living in Public Housing may not deserve the governmental subsidiary, let alone people who aren't.

That is the problem with the scheme I think, you either go help everyone and make some kind of scheme that either lower or subsidse EVERY house/flat/unit price in Hong Kong, both Public and Private, or you just help people that needed to help. The current scheme, to me, to not reach both shores. And got stuck in the middle, result? People abusing the system.

 

[bbccdd1470]

It's quite common though in Singapore where people sell their public housing (HDB) to purchase a private apartments (condominiums) which I don't understand sometimes. HDBs are much much more spacious than condominiums at the same price. Maybe because they earning comfortably and they want their properties as a form of investment (you can't own multiple HDBs) rather than just simply having a place to live. Or maybe because HDBs have a 99 year lease while private apartments are freehold.

At a matter of fact, not all owner of a public housing are rich and most of them just brought it because of the very cheap price. Moreover, they are usually above 45 of age and their income are not high enough for a loan for a private apartment. The 富戶 that we are talking about is the one that have extra money and can live comfortable due to the cheap rent, but not wealthy enough to get evict by the housing authority. So they will use the money for luxury,such as going vocation.

Most of these people 富戶 did not have their name on the rent, mostly their parent or grandparent, and since the contract already established in the 70s, 80s when their parent were actually poor, they got to hide their own limit and continue living in public housing.

That's true

 

[S10]

Irrelevant.

As long as you allow people the FREEDOM -- and I know that word is difficult for you to understand -- to rent out the things they own, including houses/apartments, people will see houses/apartments as investments and avenues of exploitation.

The solution? Force owners to live in where they purchased. Why not go further? Price controls.

Hey...Go back to the communist days.

Right, freedom to get in bed government officials to limit land development permits in order to create false scarcity? To anyone with half a brain, this is called corruption. There are plenty of countries with national housing strategies focused on giving affordable housing to their population. Canada has foreign ownership tax in certain provinces, so it must be communist right? What do you think mortgage rate is? Hint: Price control

Try not to spread your stupidity all over the place.