Holbrooke sees Pakistan as the problem!

[foxhound]

Keep living in denial and time will tell what happens with Nations who do not learn from their past. 71 was lost and what did we do absolutely nothing.

Yes you are right, we need to learn from our past. But at this current stage Pakistan is not as weak as the West or any other nations states. Pakistan is a nuclear power state with tested weapons and the delivery system upto at least 3000km range. Its armed forces are on the balance professional - when given a serious cause they will wreck havoc on any adversaries.

The US is not in best form, the WOT has caused them considerable monetary and physical losses - DESPITE THEM BEING A SUPERPOWER....they are still not able to control Afghanistan...they are fighting a loosing war.

Now Note this....NATO (one of the worlds most powerful alliances + separate US forces) have been unable to gain any form of victory or control as they would like. They are fighting rag-tag militants who only posses small arms - personally its absolutely embarrasing for them.

The US and the West always gloated to the former USSR states that their armed forces were pathetic and they got a 'hammering' from the mujahedeen.....it looks like THEY TOO ARE GETTING A HAMMERING!

THE US and its allies are bent on dismantling Pakistan under any pretext.....Pakistan just needs a bit more courage.....they will not only survive but will have the upper hand Inshallah!

 

[DarkStar]

Keep living in denial and time will tell what happens with Nations who do not learn from their past. 71 was lost and what did we do absolutely nothing.

I'm not living in denial. Bangladesh happened, because we were 1000 milies apart.

The threats we face today are not seperatist in nature, but an ideology that is espoused by people that seek to gain power at the centre.

We and our agencies have tried as best we can, with our meagre resources, to give some sort of fitting reply to '71, and we certainly have seen some success, considering the praises our ISI gets from our eastern neighbours.

Whenever Pakistan faces some sort of problem, people come with the same old cliched phrases that I referred to above.

Whether a foreign power decides to invade Pakistan or not is another matter.

However, the balkanisation of Pakistan presented as a theory by some Pakistani armchair analysts, is ignorant of strategic reality, an affront to reason, and a dangerous and wholely irresponsible suggestion to make.

 

[S-2]

"THEY TOO ARE GETTING A HAMMERING!"

It looks to me as though you suffer from hyperbolic stupidity.

Combined allied deaths over seven years is 1,064 as of April 7. That's less than one reinforced battalion over the life of this operation. Get real. It's the targeted civilians of Afghanistan that bear the real brunt of the mighty taliban "warriors".

Those chickensh!t punks know that they're azzes are wax in a straight-up fight with any of us. Civvies in buses bring out the real irhabi instinct for glory.

Go to the website for Human Rights Watch. Two papers- one on the effects of NATO airstrikes and other military actions. The other, taliban attacks on the afghan citizenry. They're both easy to find if truly interested and are illuminating, well-researched and very fair.

I doubt something like that would be of interest to you, though.

You're too eager to proclaim a victory and the defeat of mighty America. Salivating to do so, in fact.

Rein your rabid fangs back just a tad, boyo, as this story hasn't been finished...by far.

Rational posting based on some elements of fact are always appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[Captain03]

No not a world war but a conflict between pk and U.S is plausible but then India might attack us too to support the U.S and then China might intervene maybe here will be a WW3.

my point exact
another world war

 

[foxhound]

"THEY TOO ARE GETTING A HAMMERING!"

It looks to me as though you suffer from hyperbolic stupidity.

Combined allied deaths over seven years is 1,064 as of April 7. That's less than one reinforced battalion over the life of this operation. Get real. It's the targeted civilians of Afghanistan that bear the real brunt of the mighty taliban "warriors".

Those chickensh!t punks know that they're azzes are wax in a straight-up fight with any of us. Civvies in buses bring out the real irhabi instinct for glory.

Go to the website for Human Rights Watch. Two papers- one on the effects of NATO airstrikes and other military actions. The other, taliban attacks on the afghan citizenry. They're both easy to find if truly interested and are illuminating, well-researched and very fair.

I doubt something like that would be of interest to you, though.

You're too eager to proclaim a victory and the defeat of mighty America. Salivating to do so, in fact.

Rein your rabid fangs back just a tad, boyo, as this story hasn't been finished...by far.

Rational posting based on some elements of fact are always appreciated.

Thanks.

S2........just kidding!


I'm sorry if you do not share the view.....Most of the casualties suffered by the Afghans have been civilians perpetrated by US forces....its the same in neigbouring Pakistan....you kill one terrorist and kill 10 bystanders....what do you get???....ten more terrorist.....thus this DUMB strategy has caused the US + NATO forces 7 years + of conflict..........which is forcasted to last maybe another 10-15 years pending results achieved!!!

...you said...It looks to me as though you suffer from hyperbolic stupidity......on the contrary it SEEMS THAT YOU SUFFER FROM ACUTE ARROGANCE SYNDROME.......Stop getting your information from the media such as 'Fox news' or their likewise media outlets!!!

THe reality is......the WOT is causing unnecessary LIVES os US servicemen and Afghan civilians....its a very COSTLY War.....A logistical nightmare...a conflict of ATTRITION.....and one that will suck it into further hole....WHERE IT WILL BE HARDER TO DIG OUT.

By the way, I'm serving personnel within NATO......I'm giving you statements and facts that the governments do not want to hear.......ITS GOING TO BE A LONG UNWINNABLE WAR...........unless we talk/negotiate and be sincere to this region!!!

 

[DarkStar]

Yes you are right, we need to learn from our past. But at this current stage Pakistan is not as weak as the West or any other nations states. Pakistan is a nuclear power state with tested weapons and the delivery system upto at least 3000km range. Its armed forces are on the balance professional - when given a serious cause they will wreck havoc on any adversaries.

The US is not in best form, the WOT has caused them considerable monetary and physical losses - DESPITE THEM BEING A SUPERPOWER....they are still not able to control Afghanistan...they are fighting a loosing war.

Now Note this....NATO (one of the worlds most powerful alliances + separate US forces) have been unable to gain any form of victory or control as they would like. They are fighting rag-tag militants who only posses small arms - personally its absolutely embarrasing for them.

The US and the West always gloated to the former USSR states that their armed forces were pathetic and they got a 'hammering' from the mujahedeen.....it looks like THEY TOO ARE GETTING A HAMMERING!

THE US and its allies are bent on dismantling Pakistan under any pretext.....Pakistan just needs a bit more courage.....they will not only survive but will have the upper hand Inshallah!

That's great, you sitting in lovely old Maidstone, England, talking about NATO forces being hammerred. If I was the Immigration Minister of the UK, I'd kick you out myself.

You come here, and spread this stuff, while people in Pakistan AFghanistan have to live with the consequences of such misplaced bravado, when you sit here sip you cuppa while waiting for Eastenders on the telly

 

[S-2]

This is from Sept. 2008-

Troops In Contact-HRW Sept. 2008

The Human Cost-HRW April 2007

Two years old but the second report chronicles the concerted and directed targeting of Afghan civilians by the taliban, something even HRW has been reluctant to suggest about NATO. In fact nobody ever has.

The reports will speak to the quality of this war. We're hardly killing 10 bystanders for each insurgent and they, in fact, are killing more civilians than NATO.

Your PREDATOR attacks are your problem but let's be real clear there as well. You, Foxhound, haven't a clue who's been killed by PREDATOR. None. What are your citations to this data, sir?

Without them you're pissing in the wind and that's never good. With that data (and please provide more than the blog du jour floating about lately. I read it and ITS also unsourced) we might begin a discussion.

Without it, consider yourself another lost ball in high weeds.

Use my offered links and READ. It's preferable to others reading your mindless and unattributed rants.

Thanks.

 

[foxhound]

That's great, you sitting in lovely old Maidstone, England, talking about NATO forces being hammerred. If I was the Immigration Minister of the UK, I'd kick you out myself.

You come here, and spread this stuff, while people in Pakistan AFghanistan have to live with the consequences of such misplaced bravado, while you sit here sip you cuppa while waiting for Eastenders on the telly

Darkstar......I'm not talking about bravado....I DETEST WAR as it brings the inhumanity in mankind.....my point is the conflict in this region has been iniated by the US (again due to the various rightwing lobbies)...the conflict will only be resolved through a political situation.....and only when all parties are sincere......by the way what am i spreading???....I'm giving you a view that most people would like to brush away.

...the scheme of ****** is basically to disable/weaken or dismantle this area........if you cannot see this......then just watch as history will repeat!!!

 

[foxhound]

This is from Sept. 2008-

Troops In Contact-HRW Sept. 2008

The Human Cost-HRW April 2007

Two years old but the second report chronicles the concerted and directed targeting of Afghan civilians by the taliban, something even HRW has been reluctant to suggest about NATO. In fact nobody ever has.

The reports will speak to the quality of this war. We're hardly killing 10 bystanders for each insurgent and they, in fact, are killing more civilians than NATO.

Your PREDATOR attacks are your problem but let's be real clear there as well. You, Foxhound, haven't a clue who's been killed by PREDATOR. None. What are your citations to this data, sir?

Without them you're pissing in the wind and that's never good. With that data (and please provide more than the blog du jour floating about lately. I read it and ITS also unsourced) we might begin a discussion.

Without it, consider yourself another lost ball in high weeds.

Use my offered links and READ. It's preferable to others reading your mindless and unattributed rants.

Thanks.

........this conflict will last alot longer than one thinks.....because we never learn from history......the US and allies are making the same mistakes as the former USSR......I do not have the time to dig all sources....but will reference it time permitting........this conflict is unwinnable with the current strategy planned by the US administration.......watch and see!!!

 

[Kharian_Beast]

my point exact
another world war

Reality check : the world isn't going to go up in arms over Pakistan.

 

[belarusian]

it depends on what you believe in. that's what conflict means : people have different beliefs and insist on applying them.

if you believe the united states represents the power of the devil on earth then you go make a glorious sacrifice. go blow yourself in a mosque full of people or the sears tower or whatever.

as a practical matter you have that ability to make that choice for yourself, or to help others who do.

or you can just choose to be a passive victim. either way it is hard to have any respect for you. you genuinely seem to be a nation of idiots. i'm sorry there is no nice way of saying it.

 

[S-2]

"I do not have the time to dig all sources..."

I see.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Captain03]

Reality check : the world isn't going to go up in arms over Pakistan.

and nobody thought germany would make a comeback either
they aren't predictable
take your time and just think about

 

[Omar1984]

I dont think U.S. is a friend of Pakistan, Pakistan government should not trust U.S. government.

They are in bed with Indians just like the British were in bed with Indians in 1947.

Pakistan should be very careful.

The only true best friend Pakistan has is China, we can trust them with everything.

 

[Hellfire]

IMO Pakistan can scuttle all real/perceived plans of India/US/Rest of World by deciding enough is enough and taking the war to terror in its home ground and making a mincemeat of those who seek to challenge GoP and PA in Pakistani territory itself. If Pakistan was to take a hardline approach and put it in action in visible spectrum, neither the US nor India or anyone else for that matter, will have even the faintest of case to be able to point a finger at Pakistan irrespective of how many Pakistani nationals may rightly or wrongly be implicated in terror acts in foreign country.

But this entails taking some hard decisions on part of PA and GoP and compromising (in their view) their position vis-a-vis India and Kashmir.

The ultimate thing that Pakistan does achieve by cutting support to any and all outfits (be they the Kashmir outfits) is that they send out a definite signal to the world that they mean peace leading to onus on India to seriously seek a resolution of conflict bilaterally and meaningfully and thus they end up strengthening their position in terms of Kashmir and genuinely being anti terror. A two fold advantage Pakistan just on basis of one compromise!